Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

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Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby IPrintThereforeIAm » 2018-Jan-Wed-18-Jan

Good evening gentlemen.

I have a Printrbot Simple Metal, with one of the old Rev. D boards. I just purchased a Rev. F6 board, a 350W power supply, and the heated bed kit.

The old Rev. D board had a breakout board (see picture), where connections U1 and U2 managed the X-stop. U1 had its middle wire connected to the power supply. Now that I purchased the new F6 board, should I just pull that red wire from the old 4-pin and plug it into one of the hot pins in the 6-pin PCI-e connector?

Also, when plugging everything into the Rev F6 board, and only leaving that red wire in U1 unconnected, the board did not power on (the LED didn't turn on).

Has anyone else run into this problem before? If so, how did you solve it?
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Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Jan-Wed-19-Jan

I originally had a Rev D board, and mine never had a breakout board, so I have no idea what's going on there. But it looks like this was for a PROBE on the Z axis, not the X axis. The Rev F boards all make provision for powering the Z axis probe without needing a breakout board and without needing to splice or play any funny games with picking up power from an odd place. The Z axis plug's center pin can be jumpered on the board to provide either 5V or 12V.

But I do know this: DO NOT NOT NOT try to plug a 4-pin power plug from your power supply into the 6-pin socket on the board. You absolutely must use the PCI-e connector on your power supply. If it doesn't have one, then you must use a jumper that aligns the wires correctly. BAD THINGS HAPPEN if you plug the 4-pin plug into the 6-pin socket, even though you physically can do so.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby IPrintThereforeIAm » 2018-Jan-Wed-19-Jan

It is a weird setup. I smurfed around on google before coming here and I couldn't find anyone else with this breakout board. However, it definitely leads to the X-stop, not the Z-stop. I have no idea why the X-stop needs power, since the Z is what uses that proximity sensor. That's how it came from the factory, and its been working fine.

Your post got me thinking though. I took the three pronged connector from U2 and plugged it into the X-stop instead, bypassing the breakout board. My logic is that the F6 probably has a provision for whatever that breakout board did. I plugged in the 6-pin PCI-e, and nothing happened. The LED didn't even turn on!

I'm thinking about starting from scratch at this point. Disconnecting all the wires, and reconnecting them one by one. :roll:
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Jan-Wed-21-Jan

IPrintThereforeIAm wrote:I'm thinking about starting from scratch at this point. Disconnecting all the wires, and reconnecting them one by one.

Yup, that's the right thing to do at this point. No green light on the board means no power. Like maybe a short circuit on the Printrboard and its wiring, and the power supply shut itself down (or worse, blew a fuse or something).

Does your particular 'bot have an active sensor instead of a mechanical switch on the X axis? I can't think of any other reason why they would have three wires going to the "switch" (or sensor, or whatever).
Hmm... unless maybe they're stealing some power from the plug for the X axis switch and instead using it to power a fan or an LED?
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby novice » 2018-Jan-Wed-22-Jan

What is the correct size Molex 6 pin connector to plug into the printer board?
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Feb-Thu-09-Feb

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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby novice » 2018-Feb-Thu-15-Feb

Thank you for confirming they are the mini-fit Jr series. While I've not had issue thus far and still may not fully understand why using only 4 of the 6 connectors may bring about problem, your admonishment above to never ever do that scared me, so I ordered this less expensive option https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074M15FS1/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 for the two LED supplies currently wired for 4 pins.
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Feb-Thu-15-Feb

The 4-pin power connector (where power arrives from the external power supply) to the Printrboard uses a different layout than the 6-pin connector. Although you can physically fit a 4-pin plug from an ATX power supply into the 6-pin connector, it will create a short circuit.

I'm not sure what you mean about LED supplies...
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby IPrintThereforeIAm » 2018-Feb-Thu-20-Feb

The power supply still works fine. Its the cheapest 350W PSU I could find.

Also, I followed the wires from the "x-stop" port and they led back to the proximity sensor! I copied the wiring from the rev. D board (unplugging from D and plugging into F6 one at a time), but somehow, I must have messed up. Would this silly mistake break the board, or cause it to not turn on? I'd really kick myself if I blew a board this way.

Edit: Forgot to mention: All the other connections are in the right place. The breakout board is still kinda weird, but I understand its purpose in powering the proximity sensor for the z-stop.
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Feb-Thu-21-Feb

So, the question is, on a Rev F6 board, if you plugged the X switch into the Z port and the Z sensor into the X port, would anything bad happen to the board? My answer is no. The X switch only has two wires, and they go to the outside two pins of the plug, which is safe. The probe has three wires, and the middle wire is the power wire. If you plug it into the correct Z port on the board, then the board has a jumper where you select either 5V or 12V for the middle pin. If you plug the probe into the X port on the board, the middle pin will be 5V. That may not be sufficient to power up the probe, but it won't hurt the probe and it won't hurt the board.
Printrboard Rev F Endstops.PNG


If, for some reason, you short out the 5V middle pin of the X (or Y) connector to ground then it's pretty likely you could overload and burn out the chip on the board that converts 12V to 5V. That chip can be replaced, of course. If the 5V conversion is not working, then the green LED won't come on when you supply 12V to the board because the LED is driven by 5V.
Printrboard5VSupply.PNG
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby novice » 2018-Feb-Fri-07-Feb

RetireeJay wrote:The 4-pin power connector (where power arrives from the external power supply) to the Printrboard uses a different layout than the 6-pin connector. Although you can physically fit a 4-pin plug from an ATX power supply into the 6-pin connector, it will create a short circuit.

I'm not sure what you mean about LED supplies...


I misinterpreted your comment to mean by using only 4 of the 6 connectors one ran a risk of overloading terminals at the connection. Am using the low profile pwr supply marketed for LED lighting similar to what printrbot is now selling.
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby IPrintThereforeIAm » 2018-Feb-Mon-18-Feb

I'm assuming the chip on the board overloaded somehow, since it does not power on. Either that, or it was defective on arrival. But knowing me, I probably made a rookie mistake at some point without realizing it!

Before I commit to replacing that chip, is there any chance the old Rev. D board can do the job? I could find the necessary adapters to have the PSU plug into the board through the 4-pin power connector, 2-pin plug for the bed thermister, etc., but would the board and 4-pin plug be able to handle the extra power demand?
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Feb-Mon-20-Feb

Hundreds of Rev D boards were used in Printrbots with heated beds - like my Plus - before they came out with Rev F. So to answer the question "Can It" the answer is yes.

But that said, the Rev F board has much better connections for the power entering the board from the power supply and the power leaving the board to go to the heated bed. These better connections reduce the chance of overheating and fire. That risk is not entirely theoretical: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2789&p=34270 So if this was my personal Printrbot, or one belonging to a family member, I'd replace the 5V converter chip and use the Rev F board. If you desperately need a print right away, run the Rev D until you can get the Rev F going.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby IPrintThereforeIAm » 2018-Feb-Tue-20-Feb

I'm going to compare the two options, since I have a few urgent prints that need to be done soon.

What do you call the type of connector shown in the picture? If I go with the scary option, I'd need one for the heat bed connector, since it needs to connect to the headers on the Rev.D board rather than screw terminals on the Rev. F6. Also, I'm assuming it needs some sort of crimping tool, which I do not know the proper name of. If you couldn't tell, I'm a noob!

If I go with the safe but complicated sounding option, would I have to purchase the LM2841 chip from the diagram in one of your previous replies, and then de-solder the old one on the board (chip U1 near the T-bed connector)? I'm not too confident in my ability to solder extremely tiny connections :shock:

EDIT: Added attachment.
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Feb-Tue-21-Feb

Given your professed level of skill, I'd recommend against trying to buy and assemble a cable connector for your heat bed. Improperly crimped wires could make a marginal connection system into a dangerous one. On my old Rev D board, I soldered heavy-gauge wires to the board and then used beefy solder-type connectors in-line to be able to unplug the wires from the board. viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2789#p47448

Many people have recommended taking the Printrboard to a shop that does cellphone repairs to have chips replaced. Probably not all such shops will welcome the business, but some will, so don't give up. It does take special tools and techniques to replace those tiny surface-mounted devices. The part itself is very inexpensive, and you should buy it and bring it with you to the shop because they probably don't have one in stock.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby IPrintThereforeIAm » 2018-Feb-Wed-14-Feb

Sounds like the way to go, I never considered using a cell phone repair shop.

Does the switching frequency matter? TI gives you a choice between 550 kHz and 1250 kHz for this series of chips. I haven't found a spec. or an account of someone buying one over the other, so if all else fails I'll try both and share the experience here. The chips are cheap enough anyway.

Thanks for the tips!
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby IPrintThereforeIAm » 2018-Feb-Thu-17-Feb

Well, no luck. I had a cell phone repair shop try both frequency versions of the chip with no success. Time to contact Printrbot.
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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby Mooselake » 2018-Feb-Thu-17-Feb

Could be that you blew out more than that switching regulator then. Bummer. These boards are a lot harder to troubleshoot than what they made back when I was in school.

A new Printrboard is $70US plus shipping, not all that bad considering what they were just a few years ago. RJ's moved to the F6 and can supply the details, but I don't remember it as being all that hard. I'd get the USB-B connector version, lots more rugged than the micro, which is macro fragile. Don't get a rev G, that way be dragons, alas. It's completely different than the A-F boards, it shouldn't have been called the next rev.

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Re: Swapping the Rev. D Board for the Rev. F6 - Simple Metal

Postby cbxbiker61 » 2018-Feb-Fri-00-Feb

I've got an F4 and an F5. I'll sell you either one for $35. They're both micro-usb, and they both work.

I wouldn't mind selling since I'm stepping up to an Einsy board, and I'd like to see them go somewhere they'll be used.

I'll also flash an appropriate version of Marlin 1.0.8 to the board, that is if you don't need graphics support.
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