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Printrbot Talk Forum • View topic - Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Metal Plus heatbed is always on

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Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby daveculp » 2018-Feb-Sat-23-Feb

I have a metal plus I purchased about two years ago. It has been down for awhile as it had a failure during a long print. Afterwards the X axis acted bizarre. I tried re-flashing the firmware but that did nothing. I thought it was either a failed motor or the board went bad. After a few months of it being down I decided to work on it today. I purchased a new motor and a new Rev F6 board from Printrbot. I replaced the motor and still nothing so I replaced the board and it still didn't work. Stripping down the printer it turned out to be a failed endstop (I felt stupid once I tracked the problem down). A bit of solder later and the printer was working except for one thing:

The heat bed was always on.

As long as the power was applied the heat bed is heating up. With the new F6 board it was getting to 130 degrees!! I rechecked all connections and tried again - same behavior. I then put the old board in which originally came with the printer and fired it up - same behavior, as long as power is applied the heatbed is heating up. With the old board it only gets to around 105 degrees.

Any thoughts? Two bad boards somehow?
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Metal Plus heatbed is always on

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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby AZBotr » 2018-Feb-Sun-03-Feb

Check those two mosfets by the power terminal. If they're even barely touching that could be causing your problem. Hopefully it's that simple for you...
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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby daveculp » 2018-Feb-Sun-10-Feb

Nope, not touching on either board.

Anyone have a part number on the FET? I can easily desolder and replace it.
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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Feb-Sun-10-Feb

IRLB8743PBF-ND
The operation of both heater circuits is that one terminal is permanently connected to +12V, and the other terminal gets grounded through the N-channel MOSFET when calling for heat. So if you have some other pathway to ground that bypasses the MOSFET, your heater will always be on and it isn't the MOSFET's fault.
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GT2 belts & pulleys
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E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby daveculp » 2018-Feb-Sun-16-Feb

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Last edited by daveculp on 2018-Feb-Sun-18-Feb, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Feb-Sun-16-Feb

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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3, upgraded to MK3S
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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby daveculp » 2018-Feb-Sun-17-Feb

Thanks, looks like a bad MOSFET on the new PrintrBoard I received and I assume a bad one on the old one but have not checked it yet. Weird that both went bad. The new MOSFETS should be in the middle of next week so I will replace and see if that fixes it.
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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby daveculp » 2018-Feb-Wed-23-Feb

Looks like it wasnt a bad MOSFET. I was measuring incorrectly.

I got the brand new Printrboard in today and installed it and had the same issue - the heat bed is always on and heating as long as power is applied and will not turn off. The hot end work fine, it doesnt heatup unless told to.

So what do I check now? Could it be the actual heat board?
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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Feb-Thu-07-Feb

You must have a short circuit to ground somehow. The heat board itself can't heat up unless current is flowing through it, which means one terminal connected to +12V (which is normal) and the other connected to ground.
Is your board supported on insulating standoffs? Any chance there is an inadvertent connection to ground under the board? If everything there is OK, then check the cable between the board and the heater. Is it pinched against a metal chassis somewhere?
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3, upgraded to MK3S
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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby daveculp » 2018-Feb-Thu-09-Feb

Thanks for the help. I checked everything I could last night before giving up. The board is on metal standoffs, I dont believe they are insulated. I will try putting a nylon spacer between the board and each standoff and see if that works.
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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Feb-Thu-11-Feb

You could disconnect the heater wires from the Printrboard, and with both wires "floating" in air, check for continuity from either wire to ground. They should be floating, with megohms to ground. To be very thorough, check for shorts both to chassis ground, and to the power supply's ground lead (black) when the power supply is plugged into the board. And, using the diagram I showed before, check for continuity from the MOSFET drain to chassis ground (when power is off); again, this should be in the megohms or at least kilohms, not in single-digit ohms.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3, upgraded to MK3S
User avatar
RetireeJay
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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby Mooselake » 2018-Feb-Thu-12-Feb

Does the displayed bed temperature increase as it warms up, or is constant? If constant, what is it? Perhaps it's a problem with temperature sensing, like it fell off the board. That problem has lead to extruder fires, not sure if the heated bed would get hot enough.

Kirk
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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby daveculp » 2018-Feb-Thu-12-Feb

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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby daveculp » 2018-Feb-Fri-00-Feb

Update:

I left my meter at work so I couldnt take any continuity or resistance measurements. However, I did experiment.

I removed the board from the standoffs and left it "floating in air" in other words, not touching the Printrbot at all. It works fine that way, it stays off when power is applied to the bot. When commanded to heat to 70C it heats and stays at 70C. When commanded to go to a lower temp it turns off and cools to that lower temp and maintains it. When screwed back on to the standoffs it goes back to its old behavior, the heatbed is on and heating as long as power is applied to the bot.

I didnt have any nylon washers of the right size so I ordered some via Amazon and they should be here tomorrow.

Edit: Another experiment I did. With only ONE of the two heat bed wires (doesn't matter which one) plugged into the first screw terminal of the heat bed (the one closest to the hot end plug) and the other wire left unconnected and floating the heat bed will still heat uncontrollably with the power on and the board screwed to its standoffs.
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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Feb-Fri-08-Feb

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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3, upgraded to MK3S
User avatar
RetireeJay
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Joined: 2013-Jan-Wed-13-Jan
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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby daveculp » 2018-Feb-Fri-11-Feb

I was thinking the same thing, that the short may be in the heat bed itself. I have gone through every wire on that printer looking for signs of a short, frayed wires, broken or burnt wires etc... I cannot find anything. However, I have not checked the heat bed at all. I actually ordered a new heater and it should be here today or tomorrow.
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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby daveculp » 2018-Feb-Fri-22-Feb

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Re: Metal Plus heatbed is always on

Postby cbxbiker61 » 2018-Feb-Sat-02-Feb

A thought would be to reverse the wires going to the heatbed....

It is a very common practice when it comes to switching DC circuits on and off to run the "hot" +12V lead to the load unswitched and switch the -12V side. It's just a lot easier to do it this way with MOSFET's. The frame of the printer is usually at -12V, if it's connected to the power supply in any way. So in effect if what the heatbed manufacturer considers the -12V side is instead connected to +12V and it comes in contact with the frame you have this sort of problem.
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