Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby AmazingSpanoMan » 2014-May-Wed-08-May

Hey Everyone.

It figures I bought two makers kits (one for myself and one for my school) about a month before this new version came out. I was kind of bummed and was checking out the accessories page today and found this!

http://printrbot.com/shop/makers-upgrade-kit/

Just figured I'd throw it out there for those who want to have the newest version with the upgrades. Also, It's on sale right now for $20 more than the leveling probe for those who were thinking about getting the probe. The kit includes the probe.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-May-Wed-10-May

Don't feel bad. Most of their products have very short life cycles. That's just the nature of this quickly evolving technology. I bought a kit too, just for the parts.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby mln330 » 2014-May-Wed-11-May

This upgrade kit does look awesome, I've been wanting to upgrade to belts for a while, but I wonder if this would work with my XL upgraded simple? Also it looks like the aluminum extruder would be required for this, so I would have to buy that as well.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby EddB » 2014-May-Wed-12-May

mln330 wrote:This upgrade kit does look awesome, I've been wanting to upgrade to belts for a while, but I wonder if this would work with my XL upgraded simple? Also it looks like the aluminum extruder would be required for this, so I would have to buy that as well.


I was checking it out and I think it was the XL volume upgrade page. It said it was not compatible with the new WOOD maker's kit, that there would be a new xl volume upgrade for that one.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby AmazingSpanoMan » 2014-May-Wed-12-May

EddB wrote:
mln330 wrote:This upgrade kit does look awesome, I've been wanting to upgrade to belts for a while, but I wonder if this would work with my XL upgraded simple? Also it looks like the aluminum extruder would be required for this, so I would have to buy that as well.


I was checking it out and I think it was the XL volume upgrade page. It said it was not compatible with the new WOOD maker's kit, that there would be a new xl volume upgrade for that one.



I'm not entirely sure if this upgrade would work with the XL upgrade. The XL upgrade is based on attaching to the original design and it says that the XL upgrade won't work with the New Makers Simple they just came out with. I'm going to go ahead and say that if the XL kit isn't compatible with the new Makers Simple and this kit is to upgrade the 2014 to the new version (that isn't compatible with the XL kit) that if you bought this upgrade it wouldn't be compatible with the XL you already bought and installed. That being said there is a chance that you could use the parts to upgrade to the belts but at the price point your better off printing the parts you need and just doing the belts yourself. There would be a lot of wasted wood from this kit if you just use it to upgrade to a belt driven system.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby EddB » 2014-May-Wed-23-May

AmazingSpanoMan wrote:
I'm not entirely sure if this upgrade would work with the XL upgrade. The XL upgrade is based on attaching to the original design and it says that the XL upgrade won't work with the New Makers Simple they just came out with. I'm going to go ahead and say that if the XL kit isn't compatible with the new Makers Simple and this kit is to upgrade the 2014 to the new version (that isn't compatible with the XL kit) that if you bought this upgrade it wouldn't be compatible with the XL you already bought and installed. That being said there is a chance that you could use the parts to upgrade to the belts but at the price point your better off printing the parts you need and just doing the belts yourself. There would be a lot of wasted wood from this kit if you just use it to upgrade to a belt driven system.


It's actually the new printrbot simple maker's kit that has the notice:
NOT COMPATIBLE WITH CURRENT XL UPGRADE (new release coming soon)

http://printrbot.com/shop/simple-makers-kit/

My "beef" with printrbot is the rate of their new product announcements. My son got home from college a week ago and order the new xl volume upgrade. We got it Tuesday, made time to put it on and then today, Wednesday, the new upgrade kit (that won't work with the xl volume) is being released. I don't know which way he would choose, but if he did choose to do the new makers upgrade, he will be out the $130 he just spent doing the xl upgrade! He will either choose to do the new upgrade and scrap the parts he bought 5 days ago or stay with the xl and not be able to upgrade. At least they give him 30 days to make the decision before the price goes up.
I wish that if it affected new purchases, if they are introducing a new product, they would put a hold on parts so the buyer can make an informed decision.
I did purchase an upgrade kit since we own 3, makers/2014 printrbot simples in my household. But honestly don't know if it will be installed on any since ours are so heavily modded that it would be a huge step backwards. It's a great price for parts, but I really think it will help designing parts if the cad files aren't released (anytime soon) .
If PB worked on a mod part that would allow the use of existing xl volume/tower upgrades to be used instead of making an entirely new xl upgrade kit, they would sell a heck of a lot more kits! At least in my household! Without it, there are going to be so many different wooden simples that mods will be impossible to work/design without half a dozen different versions (or more!).
Ed

PB simple 2013 w/xl volume upgrade (wood extruder)
PB simple 2014 x/xl volume upgrade (aluminum ext.)
PB simple 2014 New Makers without xl/volume upgrade (soon to be upgraded/installed.)
(all bought at the same time! XMAS 2013)
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby NarimaanV » 2014-May-Thu-01-May

EddB wrote:
AmazingSpanoMan wrote:
I'm not entirely sure if this upgrade would work with the XL upgrade. The XL upgrade is based on attaching to the original design and it says that the XL upgrade won't work with the New Makers Simple they just came out with. I'm going to go ahead and say that if the XL kit isn't compatible with the new Makers Simple and this kit is to upgrade the 2014 to the new version (that isn't compatible with the XL kit) that if you bought this upgrade it wouldn't be compatible with the XL you already bought and installed. That being said there is a chance that you could use the parts to upgrade to the belts but at the price point your better off printing the parts you need and just doing the belts yourself. There would be a lot of wasted wood from this kit if you just use it to upgrade to a belt driven system.


It's actually the new printrbot simple maker's kit that has the notice:
NOT COMPATIBLE WITH CURRENT XL UPGRADE (new release coming soon)

http://printrbot.com/shop/simple-makers-kit/

My "beef" with printrbot is the rate of their new product announcements. My son got home from college a week ago and order the new xl volume upgrade. We got it Tuesday, made time to put it on and then today, Wednesday, the new upgrade kit (that won't work with the xl volume) is being released. I don't know which way he would choose, but if he did choose to do the new makers upgrade, he will be out the $130 he just spent doing the xl upgrade! He will either choose to do the new upgrade and scrap the parts he bought 5 days ago or stay with the xl and not be able to upgrade. At least they give him 30 days to make the decision before the price goes up.
I wish that if it affected new purchases, if they are introducing a new product, they would put a hold on parts so the buyer can make an informed decision.
I did purchase an upgrade kit since we own 3, makers/2014 printrbot simples in my household. But honestly don't know if it will be installed on any since ours are so heavily modded that it would be a huge step backwards. It's a great price for parts, but I really think it will help designing parts if the cad files aren't released (anytime soon) .
If PB worked on a mod part that would allow the use of existing xl volume/tower upgrades to be used instead of making an entirely new xl upgrade kit, they would sell a heck of a lot more kits! At least in my household! Without it, there are going to be so many different wooden simples that mods will be impossible to work/design without half a dozen different versions (or more!).
Ed

PB simple 2013 w/xl volume upgrade (wood extruder)
PB simple 2014 x/xl volume upgrade (aluminum ext.)
PB simple 2014 New Makers without xl/volume upgrade (soon to be upgraded/installed.)
(all bought at the same time! XMAS 2013)

You're in luck! According to this tweet, they'll release a kit to tweak the old XL kit to work with an upgraded Maker's Edition along with the new XL kit to fit the newest maker's edition very soon! :D

https://twitter.com/printrbot/status/471808960551333888
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-May-Thu-15-May

Does anybody know what the one Large motor is for, or if they kept the Z axis rod spacing the same?
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby ChefScott » 2014-May-Thu-17-May

The new motor replaces the half size motor for the Y axis.

My kit just shipped today, I'll know more soon.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-May-Thu-20-May

ChefScott wrote:The new motor replaces the half size motor for the Y axis.
My kit just shipped today, I'll know more soon.


If that is for the Y, than what size motor will fit in the frame for the X? My 2013 version has only room for the small 1/2 size motor on the X. I am just about to tear it down and send my bottom plate over to the table saw to make room for a larger X motor, but if the new kit has room for a "Large Kysan Motor" than this may be the way to go.

Please keep me posted once your kit arrives.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby ChefScott » 2014-May-Thu-20-May

On my 2014 Simple it has the large motors for X, Z and E. Only the Y is a half size motor, due to the placement of the Printrboard.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby killbox » 2014-May-Thu-20-May

the printrborad is going to be moved to the bottom of the printer and the mounting plate will be removed. hence you have fit large motors on all axis
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Skrotus » 2014-May-Thu-21-May

I'm tempted to get it just for the motor and sensor but postage to Australia is prohibitively expensive
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby EddB » 2014-May-Fri-00-May

Skrotus wrote:I'm tempted to get it just for the motor and sensor but postage to Australia is prohibitively expensive


That was a factor in my purchase, even at full price for the belts, gears, motor, coupler, sensor and complete wood kit.. It's currently selling for less than PB used to get for the wood kit only. If you don't use the kit, parts are still worth it! The shipping would be painful. But if you want it in the future, still have to pay shipping AND a higher price.
Ed
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby AmazingSpanoMan » 2014-May-Fri-07-May

EddB wrote:
Skrotus wrote:I'm tempted to get it just for the motor and sensor but postage to Australia is prohibitively expensive


That was a factor in my purchase, even at full price for the belts, gears, motor, coupler, sensor and complete wood kit.. It's currently selling for less than PB used to get for the wood kit only. If you don't use the kit, parts are still worth it! The shipping would be painful. But if you want it in the future, still have to pay shipping AND a higher price.
Ed


I mean, realistically, this is worth it for anyone who was going to buy a probe for their simple. An extra $20 gets you the motor, belts, wood etc. Can't beat that at all!
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-May-Fri-08-May

Does this kit still use the 8mm rods for the Z axis?
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby ChefScott » 2014-May-Fri-09-May

I would say that yes it still is 8mm rods as there are no new rods with the kit. This is the list that is on the PB site for the Makers Upgrade Kit:

Maker’s Upgrade Kit Includes:

140523 wood kit (most current)
11″ GT2 Belt (x2)
GT2 Pulley w Set Screws (x2)
624 Bearings (x4)
Auto-Leveling Probe
Metal Z Coupler
Large Kysan Motor
#6 Washer (x12)
M4 12mm Screw (x4)
M3 16mm Screw (x10)
M3 Hex Nut (x8)
Zip Ties (x40)
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby AmazingSpanoMan » 2014-May-Fri-10-May

Uses the 8mm rods

Pretty much what your getting is new wood to convert to the new "printrboard under the printer" style bot that can use the bigger Y axis, x/y belt conversion, official probe mount with probe. All the other parts get reused.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-May-Fri-11-May

AmazingSpanoMan wrote:Uses the 8mm rods

I wasn't sure how the "New" makers version was built since they went with larger rods on the metal simple. Just wanted to confirm they didn't incorporate that change into this new version.

I pulled the trigger and ordered the upgrade kit!

For those who are using my current mods, I will modify them to fit what need to be fit on this new version. Hopefully there isn't much.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby AmazingSpanoMan » 2014-May-Fri-14-May

Jon Lawrence wrote:
AmazingSpanoMan wrote:Uses the 8mm rods

I wasn't sure how the "New" makers version was built since they went with larger rods on the metal simple. Just wanted to confirm they didn't incorporate that change into this new version.

I pulled the trigger and ordered the upgrade kit!

For those who are using my current mods, I will modify them to fit what need to be fit on this new version. Hopefully there isn't much.



Off topic: Hey just realized where you're from. Right around the corner from me. lol
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby midnkight » 2014-May-Fri-17-May

PrintrBot has added the instruction for this Kit. I am too new to link the website, but from the looks of things, it looks like it should be easy to just extend the X-Axis with just a long rod, New GT Belt and a new Bed.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-May-Fri-18-May

This is exactly what I was thinking.

midnkight wrote:PrintrBot has added the instruction for this Kit. I am too new to link the website, but from the looks of things, it looks like it should be easy to just extend the X-Axis with just a long rod, New GT Belt and a new Bed.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-May-Sat-14-May

I just opened my kit and it looks like they increased the spacing between the 2 z-rods. I haven't measured to see how much exactly, but it looks to be about 5mm.

I've also uploaded the laser cut PDF for the wood pieces. I'll start measuring them as I go.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby AmazingSpanoMan » 2014-May-Sat-18-May

evanalmighty wrote:I just opened my kit and it looks like they increased the spacing between the 2 z-rods. I haven't measured to see how much exactly, but it looks to be about 5mm.

I've also uploaded the laser cut PDF for the wood pieces. I'll start measuring them as I go.


Is any of the original wood used with the upgrade?
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-May-Sat-20-May

None whatsoever. It's a complete new wood kit
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Skrotus » 2014-May-Sat-21-May

I'm still umming and aaahing over it, the postage is $62.12 so I don't think the cost for the motor and probe really adds up for me. I'm still tempted though, I like some of the changes to the wood kit, but then there are only a few of the original wooden parts left in my current simple...
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby killbox » 2014-May-Sat-22-May

Uh oh if john switches then I mite if hes gonna stop making models for the old printer
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby EddB » 2014-May-Sat-23-May

killbox wrote:Uh oh if john switches then I mite if hes gonna stop making models for the old printer


If you use several of his mods, it's already very different from the original printrbot... It's a JonBot :-)
There are so many different models that are called the "Simple" it is almost impossible to make a design that will work for everyone. It's hard to distinguish which version any one person has. It's also not a far stretch from the PB JR. Could you imagine trying to provided telephone support to a novice user? I don't envy tech support working via email from printrbot either.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby killbox » 2014-May-Sat-23-May

Yea but if future mods are going to be based on the 2014 makers or what ever they are calling it i see problems
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Sun-06-Jun

Maybe I have just been distracted, but I have seen a dramatic drop off in demands for mods on the old 2013 version, and even the 2014 version is slowing down. To draw some sort of conclusion from this, it looks like most mods are done to the Simple within the first 6-12 months. If this is true, than it is only logical to start mods for the "New New Makers" version since the 2013 / 2014 versions are already tweaked up.

Once I get a feeling for the differences, I will try to make any future mods compatible for both and come up with some method of identifying which one is which. Official DXF's would be a huge benefit.

evenalmighty, any measurements you can get would be fantastic. Thank you for taking the time, I know how tedious it is...
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Munson » 2014-Jun-Sun-09-Jun

Jon,it is understood that participation has dropped off because of new models,one other thing to consider is the warmer weather is amongst us in the states and people have more activities to tend to than in the winter.I am still trying to finish your mods up.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Sun-10-Jun

I decided to add some other things to my order to justify the postage cost
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Munson » 2014-Jun-Sun-12-Jun

Skrotus,what country are you from?the shipping cost is amazing,it is hard to digest the shipping cost.I order items from china to US and shipping is free.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jun-Sun-12-Jun

I've only managed 1 part so far, and that's only because it didn't fit the E3D V5 hotend. I'm uploading the stock plate and a modified plate with the extruder mount moved 3mm to the front. I'll print the modified part right now to see if it works.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Bellus » 2014-Jun-Mon-23-Jun

Jon, I can assure you that demand hasn't dropped off completely. I finished you X GT2 double precision mod. I ran out of just about everything to finish the Y portion. To top it off my printer is acting funny and it is about 100 degrees in my garage, which I think is what is giving me a problem. I am hoping to get the simple makers upgrade while it is still on sale, but I just bought the E3D hotend and a heatbed relay, so I may have to wait. I just can't keep up with your mods, each one better than rest.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Tue-00-Jun

Munson wrote:Skrotus,what country are you from?the shipping cost is amazing,it is hard to digest the shipping cost.I order items from china to US and shipping is free.


I'm in Melbourne, Australia. I'm guessing it's due to weight. I get most things from china too, it amazes me that they can sell some things with free postage where the cost they're charging for the item itself must be less than the postage costs were you to send the same thing from within Australia.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Baedarlboo » 2014-Jun-Wed-19-Jun

I also have the upgrade kit on the way. Currently printing Jon's 300mm y axis mod parts. Trying to figure out how to throw the Pinrtrbot Plus 203mmx203mm metal bed to make some larger prints. Need a x axis mod. I might as well do all the mods at once since I have to tear the whole printer down.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jun-Wed-19-Jun

You might want to hold off on printing the mods. The Z rods are spread further apart and the spacing with the Z motor is different also.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Baedarlboo » 2014-Jun-Wed-20-Jun

evanalmighty wrote:You might want to hold off on printing the mods. The Z rods are spread further apart and the spacing with the Z motor is different also.


Too late, I've already printed the largest parts....oh well. Wonder how long it's going to take Jon to modify his mods to accommodate the new changes? Guess it really doesn't matter since I still haven't got the 8mm rods yet. Sigh...all these upgrades just so I can print out a frame for my quadcopter. :mrgreen:
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Bellus » 2014-Jun-Wed-23-Jun

evanalmighty wrote:You might want to hold off on printing the mods. The Z rods are spread further apart and the spacing with the Z motor is different also.
So the Z rod spacing is different, the base also looks taller as well. Just out of curiosity, Would you happen to lose some Z height if you are using the old stock rods?
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jun-Thu-01-Jun

I don't think so, because it looks like the Y carriage can drop further down.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Thu-01-Jun

the BoM for the full kit specifies 10" rods so you should be fine

http://dozuki-documents.s3.amazonaws.com/ZUwc25vHjBDYBcms.pdf
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Defy » 2014-Jun-Thu-19-Jun

Other than the wackiness of the new firmware (at least for me it still printing flipped). I like the new mods. So much so I am going to have 2 of these puppys one with the XL bed (I need to make some legs for this thing though as it tends to want to tip) and one with the stock bed.

So far I have printed about 3 little things with the new setup and it works great. Some things I noticed with the re-build
- Had to bend the Y end stop a little because my motor would not hit it. After I bent it I realized the wiring was binding up stoping the motor about 2mm from the endstop and causing a grinding noise. So watch your wires

- Watch how you mount the board. I didn't leave enough space to get the USB in

- I found it easier to leave one of the base sides off until I ran all the wiring and then like Evan said loosen all the base bolts level the machine then tighten them down

The only mod I want now is some new x and y tension blocks, legs to help with the tipping, extruder fan mount, and maybe a fan mound on the back of the bot to blow air on the Z and X motor it is really cramped in there, and maybe a new cable track kit...
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby EddB » 2014-Jun-Thu-20-Jun

It absolutely is going to need legs if there is any change to the bed. I just finished building the new 1405 Simple. I installed the original stock xl metal bed and rods (not the tower, just the bed) and even without running it, can tell it is going to be a major problem . The x is already heavy on the right (looking at it) from the Y arm being mounted to the side. Now extend the metal bed to the right and the whole thing will just topple over. To the left, it will start to lean to the left.
So without the legs/tower of the xl volume upgrade, the 1405 can't support the added weight shift.
(the actual tower and legs are on my 230x320 bed 2014 simple)
If you find a piece of black plastic in your box on the upgrade. It's not listed on any parts list for the 2 sets of instructions. I search all the BOMs and assembly inst. I Thought it was scrap that must have fallen in. Nope, it's listed step 7 in the probe setup instructions. A spacer that fits between the bed and probe when lowered all the way.
http://help.printrbot.com/Guide/2.+Sett ... +Print/107

Ed
1402019395269.jpg

1402019483034.jpg
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby AmazingSpanoMan » 2014-Jun-Fri-07-Jun

Does anyone make a heated plate that is the size of the x upgrade aluminum plate? I already have some longer 8mm rod from an old Prusa build I did and was thinking of just buying the plate.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Baedarlboo » 2014-Jun-Fri-09-Jun

Since we're on the subject of upgrades, anyone thought about using different linear bearings to do away with zip ties? I feel like these bearings would be easier to mount without the sag issues and may make printing parts easier doing away with the bearing holder slots on carriages.




http://www.amazon.com/SC8UU-Linear-Motion-Bearing-Bushing/dp/B00JEYVB06/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1402064004&sr=8-7&keywords=8mm+linear+motion+shaft
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby AmazingSpanoMan » 2014-Jun-Fri-10-Jun

Sexy bearings! That is a option I'm sure. I wonder if there is drastic price difference?
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jun-Fri-10-Jun

I got those pillow blocks and they're pretty heavy. I was going to do a mod on the Y carriage using them, but then the new upgrade kit came out so I decided to do that first.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Defy » 2014-Jun-Fri-12-Jun

Baedarlboo wrote:Since we're on the subject of upgrades, anyone thought about using different linear bearings to do away with zip ties? I feel like these bearings would be easier to mount without the sag issues and may make printing parts easier doing away with the bearing holder slots on carriages.




http://www.amazon.com/SC8UU-Linear-Motion-Bearing-Bushing/dp/B00JEYVB06/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1402064004&sr=8-7&keywords=8mm+linear+motion+shaft



I have bought those 2 and my plan is to use them for a redesign of the X carriage where weight is a good thing. I want to make my bot an 8x8x8 then I am done with the simple and will design a mashup of a PB Plus and a Mendel Tricolor (really a plus with a the tricolor's y bits so I can have 3-4 extruders. But first I have to get my PBS 1405 dialed in so I can make the parts.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Baedarlboo » 2014-Jun-Fri-14-Jun

evanalmighty wrote:I got those pillow blocks and they're pretty heavy. I was going to do a mod on the Y carriage using them, but then the new upgrade kit came out so I decided to do that first.


Defy wrote:
Baedarlboo wrote:Since we're on the subject of upgrades, anyone thought about using different linear bearings to do away with zip ties? I feel like these bearings would be easier to mount without the sag issues and may make printing parts easier doing away with the bearing holder slots on carriages.




http://www.amazon.com/SC8UU-Linear-Motion-Bearing-Bushing/dp/B00JEYVB06/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1402064004&sr=8-7&keywords=8mm+linear+motion+shaft



I have bought those 2 and my plan is to use them for a redesign of the X carriage where weight is a good thing. I want to make my bot an 8x8x8 then I am done with the simple and will design a mashup of a PB Plus and a Mendel Tricolor (really a plus with a the tricolor's y bits so I can have 3-4 extruders. But first I have to get my PBS 1405 dialed in so I can make the parts.


I guess weight can be a factor as far as distribution (higher center of gravity when increasing in the Z direction) but the Z/Y axis carriage only moves slowly in the Z direction (stationary in the Y axis) . Is that still a concern?
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Defy » 2014-Jun-Fri-14-Jun

The amount of weight these add probably wouldnt be an issue but if i use them on the z axis i will upgrade the acme rod to a bigger one with brass acme nut.

I have access to a mill/lathe so i might get a custom nut/flange made. i just haven't had the time. And now that my bot is back up i think i will leave it alone for a while and work on another one.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby midnkight » 2014-Jun-Fri-18-Jun

AmazingSpanoMan wrote:Does anyone make a heated plate that is the size of the x upgrade aluminum plate? I already have some longer 8mm rod from an old Prusa build I did and was thinking of just buying the plate.

On Ebay, Someone does make the heated bed for the XL plate and the normal Simple plate.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby donde » 2014-Jun-Fri-18-Jun

EddB wrote:It absolutely is going to need legs if there is any change to the bed. I just finished building the new 1405 Simple. I installed the original stock xl metal bed and rods (not the tower, just the bed) and even without running it, can tell it is going to be a major problem . The x is already heavy on the right (looking at it) from the Y arm being mounted to the side. Now extend the metal bed to the right and the whole thing will just topple over. To the left, it will start to lean to the left.
So without the legs/tower of the xl volume upgrade, the 1405 can't support the added weight shift.
(the actual tower and legs are on my 230x320 bed 2014 simple)
If you find a piece of black plastic in your box on the upgrade. It's not listed on any parts list for the 2 sets of instructions. I search all the BOMs and assembly inst. I Thought it was scrap that must have fallen in. Nope, it's listed step 7 in the probe setup instructions. A spacer that fits between the bed and probe when lowered all the way.
http://help.printrbot.com/Guide/2.+Sett ... +Print/107

Ed
1402019395269.jpg

1402019483034.jpg


How about tilt if you set the New Simple on a flat level smooth hard surface instead of on the carpet? Maybe it will not tilt then?
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Defy » 2014-Jun-Fri-19-Jun

I am printing on a glass table and its fine (printed 6-8 smaller parts so far). But none of my parts have been more than 2x2 so i dont get to the extremes. I might ziptie it to a 2x4 untill i can design some legs
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby EddB » 2014-Jun-Sat-03-Jun

donde wrote:
How about tilt if you set the New Simple on a flat level smooth hard surface instead of on the carpet? Maybe it will not tilt then?


No, it does not topple over on a hard surface, but it is more than obvious the weight shifts to the right with a minor bed modification. Something that will need to be addressed with any bed mods or possibly even print problems at higher speeds/jerks.
It could cause the printer to "walk" or cause shaking/rocking that could affect the print and be hard to diagnose. Printing on glass or using a heatbed might also be impossible (without legs/anchor).
Ed
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby thawkins » 2014-Jun-Sat-09-Jun

EddB wrote:
donde wrote:
How about tilt if you set the New Simple on a flat level smooth hard surface instead of on the carpet? Maybe it will not tilt then?


No, it does not topple over on a hard surface, but it is more than obvious the weight shifts to the right with a minor bed modification. Something that will need to be addressed with any bed mods or possibly even print problems at higher speeds/jerks.
It could cause the printer to "walk" or cause shaking/rocking that could affect the print and be hard to diagnose. Printing on glass or using a heatbed might also be impossible (without legs/anchor).
Ed


I bought a heavy wooden chopping board, and screwed mine to that with some small L brackets, put some stick on rubber furniture feet under that.

this was so "she who must be obeyed" would not complain about it damaging the table surfaces i was putting it on.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Bellus » 2014-Jun-Sat-09-Jun

I am still waiting on my upgrade kit, but even without it my simple still wants to tip. With a 6x12 Alu bed and 6x11 heat bed I added a couple pieces of make shift "legs" which help. As soon as my kits I will add something a little more esthetically pleasing. Image
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Sat-09-Jun

the chopping board is an excellent idea, I might do that myself
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby donde » 2014-Jun-Sun-18-Jun

No, it does not topple over on a hard surface, but it is more than obvious the weight shifts to the right with a minor bed modification]


At the hardware store I found the non slip rubberry space age material that was sold after the Northridge Earthquake to keep nick-nacks from sliding out of cabinets onto the floor.
A piece of it under the Simple really helps to stop any sliding motion of the printer during fast acceleration of X or Y motors. Trying to rotate the printer is very difficult also. The stuff grabs the surface and the item real good. Screwing down the printer on a breadboard instead will solve all problems of movement. :)
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Wed-03-Jun

My upgrade kit arrived today, I'm tempted to rebuild my printer with the kit right now but I'd prefer not to lose my upgraded build area so I'll wait to see what jon comes up with.
I also got the 6x6 aluminium bed and heat bed so I'll need to find some way to mount that
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Sat-21-Jun

What firmware are you guys using? I can't seem to make the induction sensor work. No matter what firmware I try there's always some issue.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby AmazingSpanoMan » 2014-Jun-Mon-06-Jun

orangefurball wrote:What firmware are you guys using? I can't seem to make the induction sensor work. No matter what firmware I try there's always some issue.


Double check github. It looks like they reorganized the firmware for each printer. I guess they gave up on the whole Unified Firmware idea and each has it's own. I think you can download the one specific to your bot from the support page on printrbot too.

https://github.com/Printrbot/Printrbot-Simple-Firmware - This is the stock simple firmware on Github

https://github.com/Printrbot/Marlin/rel ... edlevel-v2 - With bed leveling

https://github.com/Printrbot/Printr-Configs - Config Gcode to run in Repetier
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Defy » 2014-Jun-Mon-07-Jun

The only one i could get to work was the one for the metal
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-Jun-Mon-08-Jun

Defy wrote:The only one i could get to work was the one for the metal


Same here.
I wanted to have more points probed for autolevel so I compiled one myself for that reason.
Anyone having issues is welcome to give this a shot. It is working well for me.

A few things to keep in mind:

-Depending on your current setup, you may need to change the orientation of some stepper motor connections.
- Verify EEPROM settings for your max/min travel sizes (in my case Max x203.2 y203.3 Z152.4, MIN X0 Y0 Z0) as well as your probe offsets. Also make sure to copy your calibration data down somewhere in the event it is replaced. So far I have reflashed my firmware at least 2 dozen times and I have yet to loose my calibration values, but it's better to err on the side of caution.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5n7uemn156lnf2n/PMS_AccurateBedLevel.hex

I would appreciate any feedback pertaining to this hex as I have only installed it on my machine so I may not have found all of the bugs.

Good Luck

-Chris
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby AmazingSpanoMan » 2014-Jun-Mon-09-Jun

Mach-Chris wrote:
Defy wrote:The only one i could get to work was the one for the metal


Same here.
I wanted to have more points probed for autolevel so I compiled one myself for that reason.
Anyone having issues is welcome to give this a shot. It is working well for me.

A few things to keep in mind:

-Depending on your current setup, you may need to change the orientation of some stepper motor connections.
- Verify EEPROM settings for your max/min travel sizes (in my case Max x203.2 y203.3 Z152.4, MIN X0 Y0 Z0) as well as your probe offsets. Also make sure to copy your calibration data down somewhere in the event it is replaced. So far I have reflashed my firmware at least 2 dozen times and I have yet to loose my calibration values, but it's better to err on the side of caution.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/5n7uemn156lnf2n/PMS_AccurateBedLevel.hex

Are you using this on the metal or wood?


I would appreciate any feedback pertaining to this hex as I have only installed it on my machine so I may not have found all of the bugs.

Good Luck

-Chris
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-Jun-Mon-09-Jun

I'm using it on the metal.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby HCS-II » 2014-Jun-Mon-10-Jun

Chris,

How many points does your firmware probe for?

I know that the original PB simple metal beds had dips in the middle (Brook even talked about a redesign adding lips to the front and back to keep the bed flat). How flat were you able to make the 8X8 upgrade beds you make?

Mike
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-Jun-Mon-10-Jun

This version probes 9 points, as far as I can understand the coding, it breaks the table surface up into 4 individual squares, each with their own tilt coefficient. I want to expand this to 12 points shortly, and that will break the table into 9 squares, 3 of which would be smack in the middle, right where a warp or bend is likely to be.

The flatness of the tables vary from part to part, as the condition of the stock isn't always the same to begin with.

Jdublu had probed his bed measuring a difference of .02mm at the front, from left to right, and a larger value, from front to back, However the larger value may be due to Y axis droop.

The table I have for myself is significantly worse than Jdublu has, but the probing works magnificently, however with warp being right in the middle, 4 quadrants doesn't quite compensate for all of it in that manor, hence wanted to make the change for 12 points for a more accurate reading of any high or low points right in the middle of the print area.

*edit*

still doing some reading up, but It may not be breaking the table down into grids of squares. It would probably be best if I it did, but it looks as though it's just computing one single average or "best fit based on all the points. Unfortunate as that may be. Still though, the more points the better.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby ChefScott » 2014-Jun-Mon-12-Jun

Lap that metal into submission! Take one part insanity, lots of wet-dry sandpaper 180 through 400 (or 600) grit and make it flat. Put the fear into that metal!! :twisted:
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-Jun-Mon-12-Jun

ChefScott wrote:Lap that metal into submission! Take one part insanity, lots of wet-dry sandpaper 180 through 400 (or 600) grit and make it flat. Put the fear into that metal!! :twisted:


I think that requires a touch more than one part insanity....
Also a granite surface plate would be ideal.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby AmazingSpanoMan » 2014-Jun-Mon-12-Jun

Mach-Chris wrote:This version probes 9 points, as far as I can understand the coding, it breaks the table surface up into 4 individual squares, each with their own tilt coefficient. I want to expand this to 12 points shortly, and that will break the table into 9 squares, 3 of which would be smack in the middle, right where a warp or bend is likely to be.

The flatness of the tables vary from part to part, as the condition of the stock isn't always the same to begin with.

Jdublu had probed his bed measuring a difference of .02mm at the front, from left to right, and a larger value, from front to back, However the larger value may be due to Y axis droop.

The table I have for myself is significantly worse than Jdublu has, but the probing works magnificently, however with warp being right in the middle, 4 quadrants doesn't quite compensate for all of it in that manor, hence wanted to make the change for 12 points for a more accurate reading of any high or low points right in the middle of the print area.

*edit*

still doing some reading up, but It may not be breaking the table down into grids of squares. It would probably be best if I it did, but it looks as though it's just computing one single average or "best fit based on all the points. Unfortunate as that may be. Still though, the more points the better.



I thought the reason why there were so few points to begin with was because any more made the firmware too large to load on to the printrboards. I may be wrong but I thought that was why. Did you do anything to shrink it down?

Also, where did you get the source code? I don't see a source on Github specific to the metal anywhere.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-Jun-Mon-12-Jun

AmazingSpanoMan wrote:
Mach-Chris wrote:This version probes 9 points, as far as I can understand the coding, it breaks the table surface up into 4 individual squares, each with their own tilt coefficient. I want to expand this to 12 points shortly, and that will break the table into 9 squares, 3 of which would be smack in the middle, right where a warp or bend is likely to be.

The flatness of the tables vary from part to part, as the condition of the stock isn't always the same to begin with.

Jdublu had probed his bed measuring a difference of .02mm at the front, from left to right, and a larger value, from front to back, However the larger value may be due to Y axis droop.

The table I have for myself is significantly worse than Jdublu has, but the probing works magnificently, however with warp being right in the middle, 4 quadrants doesn't quite compensate for all of it in that manor, hence wanted to make the change for 12 points for a more accurate reading of any high or low points right in the middle of the print area.

*edit*

still doing some reading up, but It may not be breaking the table down into grids of squares. It would probably be best if I it did, but it looks as though it's just computing one single average or "best fit based on all the points. Unfortunate as that may be. Still though, the more points the better.



I thought the reason why there were so few points to begin with was because any more made the firmware too large to load on to the printrboards. I may be wrong but I thought that was why. Did you do anything to shrink it down?

Also, where did you get the source code? I don't see a source on Github specific to the metal anywhere.


I did find a metal simple version on github, I can't seem to find it now...I believe it was somewhere in the Printrbot fork. Either way. Using the general Marlin Bedlevel version is sufficient, it has all of the same available options.

I did remove some LCD support since I wasn't using it, I believe that ended up saving somewhere in the area of 20k, but I'm not entirely sure it was a necessary step. I can't remember the exact number, but I believe the version I posted up there ^ occupies 96k of space.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Mon-17-Jun

Mach-Chris wrote:
AmazingSpanoMan wrote:
Mach-Chris wrote:This version probes 9 points, as far as I can understand the coding, it breaks the table surface up into 4 individual squares, each with their own tilt coefficient. I want to expand this to 12 points shortly, and that will break the table into 9 squares, 3 of which would be smack in the middle, right where a warp or bend is likely to be.

The flatness of the tables vary from part to part, as the condition of the stock isn't always the same to begin with.

Jdublu had probed his bed measuring a difference of .02mm at the front, from left to right, and a larger value, from front to back, However the larger value may be due to Y axis droop.

The table I have for myself is significantly worse than Jdublu has, but the probing works magnificently, however with warp being right in the middle, 4 quadrants doesn't quite compensate for all of it in that manor, hence wanted to make the change for 12 points for a more accurate reading of any high or low points right in the middle of the print area.

*edit*

still doing some reading up, but It may not be breaking the table down into grids of squares. It would probably be best if I it did, but it looks as though it's just computing one single average or "best fit based on all the points. Unfortunate as that may be. Still though, the more points the better.



I thought the reason why there were so few points to begin with was because any more made the firmware too large to load on to the printrboards. I may be wrong but I thought that was why. Did you do anything to shrink it down?

Also, where did you get the source code? I don't see a source on Github specific to the metal anywhere.


I did find a metal simple version on github, I can't seem to find it now...I believe it was somewhere in the Printrbot fork. Either way. Using the general Marlin Bedlevel version is sufficient, it has all of the same available options.

I did remove some LCD support since I wasn't using it, I believe that ended up saving somewhere in the area of 20k, but I'm not entirely sure it was a necessary step. I can't remember the exact number, but I believe the version I posted up there ^ occupies 96k of space.

Chris, you're amazing.

I put this on my Simple and for the first time since building it, probing works.

it does probe at 9 points, however doesn't move the Y while doing so. In fact, I can't really move the Y at all except for zeroing.

the motor connector is reversed.

here is a short video (under 2mins) showing what it does. http://youtu.be/l_0q91lKuwQ
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-Jun-Tue-06-Jun

orangefurball wrote:Chris, you're amazing.

I put this on my Simple and for the first time since building it, probing works.

it does probe at 9 points, however doesn't move the Y while doing so. In fact, I can't really move the Y at all except for zeroing.

the motor connector is reversed.

here is a short video (under 2mins) showing what it does. http://youtu.be/l_0q91lKuwQ


I had the same issue, it would probe the same 3 points 3 times. Now, I did so much screwing around that I can't remember exactly which setting I tweaked, BUT, There was something in the EEPROM. It may have been the home offset after probing. What I can tell you is that the Y home switch shouldn't be Y0. It should actually be Y+(whatever your travel limit is) so maybe Y100. on the wood simple? I don't have access to my printer at the moment, So i can't pull my EEPROM settings, but that should point you in the right direction. Basically, after homing, if you command an M114, it should report x0 y100 z0 or something along those lines, then when you autolevel g29, the y axis should move all the way to the front left of the table (X0Y0) and probe an array from there. Give it a shot while I'm at work today. I can help you more when I get back home tonight.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Tue-13-Jun

Mach-Chris wrote:
orangefurball wrote:Chris, you're amazing.

I put this on my Simple and for the first time since building it, probing works.

it does probe at 9 points, however doesn't move the Y while doing so. In fact, I can't really move the Y at all except for zeroing.

the motor connector is reversed.

here is a short video (under 2mins) showing what it does. http://youtu.be/l_0q91lKuwQ


I had the same issue, it would probe the same 3 points 3 times. Now, I did so much screwing around that I can't remember exactly which setting I tweaked, BUT, There was something in the EEPROM. It may have been the home offset after probing. What I can tell you is that the Y home switch shouldn't be Y0. It should actually be Y+(whatever your travel limit is) so maybe Y100. on the wood simple? I don't have access to my printer at the moment, So i can't pull my EEPROM settings, but that should point you in the right direction. Basically, after homing, if you command an M114, it should report x0 y100 z0 or something along those lines, then when you autolevel g29, the y axis should move all the way to the front left of the table (X0Y0) and probe an array from there. Give it a shot while I'm at work today. I can help you more when I get back home tonight.

OK, I changed the home offset to "M206 X0 Y100 Z0" and it didn't change anything.

my M210 (minimum) is "M210 X0 Y0 Z0"

my M211 (maximum) is "M211 X100 Y100 Z230"
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-Jun-Tue-13-Jun

maybe it was m206 Y-100? Lol, sorry I can't remember.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Tue-15-Jun

Mach-Chris wrote:maybe it was m206 Y-100? Lol, sorry I can't remember.

Repetier doesn't go to negative values while doing manual movements of the print head. Maybe that's the problem?
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Baedarlboo » 2014-Jun-Tue-18-Jun

So what's everyone doing if you haven't upgraded to the aluminium extruder setup? Is there a way to use the older simple wooden extruder?
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jun-Tue-19-Jun

You can print your own "aluminum-pla" extruder or go bowden. The old wooden extruder won't fit on top of the Y carriage.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Defy » 2014-Jun-Tue-22-Jun

I am finishing up my second 1405 build and i'll write up a software/firmware install on everything i do with screen shots. I might even fire up a windows VM and have a windows and a mac install version. Give me the weekend and we'll see where i get.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Tue-22-Jun

Mach-Chris helped me solve everything. His firmware was the only one I could get working. Definitely recommend!
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Wed-00-Jun

I got impatient and put mine together. I made some things to mount my new print bed, it sags pretty badly but works somehow. So I've got my full 6" print volume in X but only 100 for Y.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Wed-03-Jun

For anyone having issues with tipping due to large beds, I can send you some STL files of bolt on easy fixes that dont require modding.

I plan on putting them on Thingiverse once I finish printing mine, but if you need them sooner just pm me.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Baedarlboo » 2014-Jun-Wed-07-Jun

evanalmighty wrote:You can print your own "aluminum-pla" extruder or go bowden. The old wooden extruder won't fit on top of the Y carriage.


Fudge...I already broke down my printer.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Munson » 2014-Jun-Wed-20-Jun

Skrotus,what is that the Jon Lawrence mixed in with the 1405?
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Wed-21-Jun

Munson wrote:Skrotus,what is that the Jon Lawrence mixed in with the 1405?


They're just some simple parts I drew up to allow me to use the 6x6 aluminium bed on the 1405. I don't actually have any Jon Lawrence mods on at the moment, but I'm currently printing the updated Y/Z plate to put the Y no-sag mod back on.
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby Bellus » 2014-Jun-Sun-01-Jun

Mach-Chris wrote:
orangefurball wrote:Chris, you're amazing.

I put this on my Simple and for the first time since building it, probing works.

it does probe at 9 points, however doesn't move the Y while doing so. In fact, I can't really move the Y at all except for zeroing.

the motor connector is reversed.

here is a short video (under 2mins) showing what it does. http://youtu.be/l_0q91lKuwQ


I had the same issue, it would probe the same 3 points 3 times. Now, I did so much screwing around that I can't remember exactly which setting I tweaked, BUT, There was something in the EEPROM. It may have been the home offset after probing. What I can tell you is that the Y home switch shouldn't be Y0. It should actually be Y+(whatever your travel limit is) so maybe Y100. on the wood simple? I don't have access to my printer at the moment, So i can't pull my EEPROM settings, but that should point you in the right direction. Basically, after homing, if you command an M114, it should report x0 y100 z0 or something along those lines, then when you autolevel g29, the y axis should move all the way to the front left of the table (X0Y0) and probe an array from there. Give it a shot while I'm at work today. I can help you more when I get back home tonight.



So after a few back and forth messages with orangefurball, it finally works. Using your firm ware and changing the M212 to X0.00 Y0.00 Z-0.6 it probes the 9 individual spots instead of the same 3 spot 3 times. It was originally M212 X0.00 Y0.00 Z-1.6, Can anyone elaborate on the M212 command? Why would Z-1.6 cause a huge difference?
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Re: Makers Simple Upgrade Kit

Postby EddB » 2014-Jun-Sun-13-Jun

Mach-Chris wrote:
I did find a metal simple version on github, I can't seem to find it now...I believe it was somewhere in the Printrbot fork. Either way. Using the general Marlin Bedlevel version is sufficient, it has all of the same available options.

I did remove some LCD support since I wasn't using it, I believe that ended up saving somewhere in the area of 20k, but I'm not entirely sure it was a necessary step. I can't remember the exact number, but I believe the version I posted up there ^ occupies 96k of space.


This is the official link to the printrbot firmware github. Has bedlevel beta, metal only, unified v2 and v3 as well as config settings I think.

https://github.com/Printrbot/Marlin/releases

Ed
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