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Printrbot Talk Forum • View topic - All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

The PBHQ Official Forum should only be used for questions/issues/topics that only PBHQ can answer (eg. order issues, missing parts from your order, any messages directed specifically at PBHQ people, etc). All other questions/issues/topics should be posted in the regular forums.

All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby pat777 » 2014-Apr-Mon-14-Apr

Do you have an estimate of when the all-metal Simple upgrade will be released? :-)

As an owner of the Simple XL, and looking to eventually upgrade, the all-metal Simple looks great. The only problem? Many of my designs take advantage of the >7" X-axis bed. The metal Simple is a downgrade in X and Z axis dimensions. Is there a plan to at least release an X-Axis upgrade that would bring it to 8" or 10" (6" Y and Z is fine)? If that upgrade comes out I'll order that day!

Thanks!
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby David@Printrbot » 2014-Apr-Tue-15-Apr

I don't believe there is an upgrade path from the wood to metal Simple. The design changes are drastically different between the two models.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby pat777 » 2014-Apr-Wed-10-Apr

Sorry I wasn't clear ...I didn't mean to upgrade the wood to metal. I meant to buy the new All-Metal Simple ...and then buy the 'not yet announced' All-Metal Simple upgrade to make the X-axis 8" or 10".

If the All-Metal X-axis was bigger I'd order one today ...but as I said, going from the wood Simple XL to the all-metal simple is a downgrade for both the X and Z axes.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby David@Printrbot » 2014-Apr-Wed-15-Apr

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby pat777 » 2014-Apr-Thu-08-Apr

No he didn't ...I was just hopeful. Seemed odd that the upgrade to the Simple XL ...was a downgrade in 2 dimensions. Given the upgrade path for the original Simple, I was hoping/suggesting the All-Metal Simple follow similarly so that XL owners have a 'next printer' to buy option....
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby David@Printrbot » 2014-Apr-Thu-21-Apr

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby slicedveggie » 2014-May-Sun-11-May

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby JBurd67 » 2014-May-Sun-12-May

While you're at that, you could look into extending the Y-axis. Or at least plan for the future. You could easily make the same upgrades, provided you have the right size build plate.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby KDog » 2014-May-Fri-04-May

You probably could figure out how to extend the axes but the real standout feature of the PMS is that it is stable as a rock. Anything that you do to it that disrupts the structure will compromise this. This is my fourth printer and by far the best. I got it as a kit on Monday and It's already printing better than anything I've gotten off the previous three. I can't imagine that I will be cutting into it any time soon. My PBJ was modded several times the first week I had it. This thing doesn't need it.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Fri-06-May

I might be able to do a short run of an upgrade at work. longer Alum build plate, longer rods, and a section of longer GT2 belt...don't think i'm missing anything? Maybe I can put it together and throw it on kickstarter. Could take the x travel to 8" fairly easily.
I probably wouldn't bother powder coating the new table though. All in all, I dont think it would be that expensive. I could order in long lengths of 8mm rods and cut them to size, and a production run of the tables wouldn't take long at all, ~3 mins a piece. Something to consider if there's enough demand for it. Just gotta get through all my current work first.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Fri-07-May

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby EddB » 2014-May-Fri-11-May

The easiest axis to upgrade looks like the Z. A couple case hardened rods and a threaded rod. Going bigger on the x or y might cause shake or stability problems unless you add legs or some sort of achoring as the center of gravity will shift quite a bit. (more so with an x axis upgrades.)
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Fri-11-May

most of your weight is in the Y-Z axis, which are for the most part centred. Add to that a spool holder on the Z rods and you have a lot of weight holding the machine down. I really can't see 1" per side on the x table and rods causing instability. But we will see tomorrow.

I could also see two issues with modifying the Z, it would be more expensive given the rods are larger and its an acme screw instead of the gt belt. And the machine would likely have more of a tendency to twist along the 12mm rods the longer they are.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Sagbot » 2014-May-Fri-16-May

As Chris pointed out it's very easy to lengthen X and Y with longer rods & belt. The Z is a little harder because you have to fab or re-use the aluminum slab the Z rods are pressed in to.

Personally I think the Simple is sized right as it is (6 6 6 and black? you know it) and it is not ideal in an engineering sense to extend Y on this design, because extruder motor weight tends to cause deflection. It's better to use a balanced design like the Plus. However if it is a problem it can be fixed by using a Bowden tube.

It'll be cool to see what Mach-Chris comes up with!

I would encourage those who might like to upgrade the Simple, to design their own bot! There are several technologies and tried and true designs that will lead to a good cartesian bot. And there are many people here who can help with design, fab, details, and sourcing parts.
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Last edited by Sagbot on 2014-May-Fri-16-May, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Sagbot » 2014-May-Fri-16-May

You know what would be really cool. An extended X with a glass bed, with rubber isolation for fastening to the Delrin and force resistors for Z probing.

Or instead of glass, polycarbonate sheet could be used and then no tape is needed. One can print on the PC bed directly. Simple. (As Brook would say.)
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Fri-16-May

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sat-12-May

Here's the work so far.

Had my hands pretty full keeping a bunch of the mills up and running here,

But so far I've managed to machine the alum table and sheet of polycarbonate.

Pictures are crap. sorry, there will be better ones later

Probably going to engrave the PB logo into the alum for a little flash, Maybe PBX (extended X)

local metal supermarkets was out of 8mm rods....not entirely surprising, i'm sure they've been in relatively high demand given the whole 3d printer culture. Based on the thread for "ottawa" i would say there are at least 5 people in Ottawa with printrbots....maybe a handful of others with other makes.

I'm going to scrounge around and see if I can machine some extended rods out of something I have here, just for the time beings, until the supplier restocks on 8mm. Considering alum. I have a lot of it here. But it will probably only last 1 print before the bearings wear ruts into the rods. lol. Again. Just something for proof of concept though.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-May-Sat-12-May

How about machining some ALU slide rail profiles so we can ditch the rods and the bearings? I've been thinking of converting to the new slide rail system that Adafruit is now selling.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sat-13-May

rail linear bearings you say? its not a horrible plan. You can buy these off the shelf. But they are significantly more expensive. Machining them from scratch isn't really worth is since they can be bought ready to go, (usually the prices aren't too bad from certain Taiwanese companies. But it's an option that can be considered) Just to be clear, this is what you're referring to right?

http://www.mcmaster.com/#linear-motion- ... es/=s09l24
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sat-16-May

So this is as far as I can go for today.

Still have lots of legit work to get done.
I wish I had thinner lexan so the induction would still carry through.
alternatively, i could make the base plate out of steel instead of alum, i've already tested the theory, and the induction DOES carry through 1/8 lexan if steel is underneath, the field just isn't strong enough with alum.
my make-shift rods (mild steel) aren't too bad, I managed to machine them pretty close, and there's minimal side shift on the bed with these rods. Again, the rods are only temporary, until the local supplier gets stock in next week.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sat-19-May

Here's a pic for comparison
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby KDog » 2014-May-Sat-21-May

Wow! Thanks for sharing this. Very cool. Keep on posting your progress.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby greenb » 2014-May-Sat-21-May

Mach-Chris, were you using a Bridgeport mill? I loved using manual mills, I miss being able to use my high school machine shop.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sat-21-May

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sat-21-May

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby greenb » 2014-May-Sat-21-May

I was saving up for a Taig lathe but I bought a Printrbot Simple instead. Are you planning on extending the Y-axis as well?
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sat-22-May

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby greenb » 2014-May-Sat-23-May

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sun-00-May

Yeah, it certainly could. I'm just concerned about the leverage, could switch to a bowden system to remove the motor from the hot end and reduce the weight at the front of the arm. AH, i've got it. We design a printed part, that incorporates both a spool holder AND motor mount, that we can seat ontop of the 12mm rails, that way we can fairly easily just extend the rods and belts on the Y as well. We would have to either modify of replace the sheet metal that bolts up to the delrin blocks. And maybe a counterweight system so that even if the y axis is 8 inches extended, there's come weight pulley-ed off the back to help stop it from leaning forward and shaking/vibrating too much
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby greenb » 2014-May-Sun-00-May

I guess you could add more mass but I think it is better to make it as light as you can. If you are worried about vibration/shaking, why cant you case harden the rods? I think that would reduce the deformation in the rods. You could also use that 5 axis cnc to make a center block out of a block of billet aluminum.

I think the point of the Printrbot Simple metal is that it is made out of metal :D
If people REALLY want to upgrade the Printrbot Simple Metal, they will pay the extra money to get the best parts possible.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sun-00-May

Only the moving parts really need to be light, and the way i'm looking at it, if we were removing the motor from the Y then it would be lighter already, you we just be moving the weight of the motor to the back for counter balance. The 5 axis is booked like crazy. A lot of aerospace parts to get through. It is possible to make the main body out of billet alum, but we would just have to hollow it out again for the electronics, unless you wanted to relocate all the internals elsewhere?
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby greenb » 2014-May-Sun-01-May

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sun-10-May

Ah, i see you have the older wooden model? the new metal model has those slide bearings pressed into alum. no reinforcement necessary
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby KDog » 2014-May-Sun-12-May

Hi, just a comment,

The printrbot jr. had lots of problems in the stability of the y-axis. This design looks a lot like that. The metal plate on the simple metal y-axis keeps everything nice and stable. If you have to remove it to extend the y-axis you might be moving backwards.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sun-16-May

then not "remove" per-say, maybe just remake? a bolt on extension plate, 4 holes, adds 2 inches so that you can move the delrin block and belt tensioner back a little bit
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sat-10-May

For those of you following along

here's the prototype model of an 8x8 bed, recessed for a 6x6 heater mounted underneath

Thanks to Jdublu For providing me with headbed dimensions!
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sat-16-May

My fellow Printerbot enthusiasts
Here we have a completed and functional 8" aluminum bed upgrade for the Simple Metal.

Induction works as it should

Travel is confirmed at 8" minimum on the X

Recessed pocket on the underside for mounting a 6 x 6 Heated bed.

The table has been developed to accommodate an 8" Y axis upgrade, which I should be finishing this coming week. (waiting on rods)

Let me know what you guys think!
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby ChefScott » 2014-May-Sat-17-May

That is one lovely looking aluminum build plate you have made! I want one for my wood Simple!
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sat-19-May

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby ChefScott » 2014-May-Sat-20-May

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sun-17-May

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby ChefScott » 2014-May-Mon-08-May

That is some of the best 3D printer porn I have ever seen! That print bed is so flat and smooth... I want to touch it... :o

Now that I've snapped out of my stupor looking at this pictures. What is the mounting hole spacing on that? Because like I said, I'll make that aluminum goodness fit my wooden simple
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Mon-08-May

4.1" on the Y axis, center to center.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby ChefScott » 2014-May-Mon-09-May

After a quick measure on the y, I'm seeing this fit my wooden Simple, so what is the distance for the holes on the x?
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby MegaMoonMan » 2014-May-Thu-13-May

I don't really need bigger X-Y travel, but I definitely want to buy that build plate with the built in heated bed pocket to replace my cobbled and clipped together mess of a heated bed.

One thing though, shouldn't there be a small channel added to recess the thermistor and its wires so it can sandwich between the heated and aluminum beds? As it is now you would have to put the thermistor somewhere on the outside of everything, which doesn't make a lot of sense. It should be firmly and safely sealed in the middle of everything.
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Fri-02-May

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby EddB » 2014-May-Fri-17-May

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Complete printable 1405 Simple https://www.youmagine.com/designs/compl ... s-edition/ or thing:425164

True Wireless Slicing and Printer Cloud+Web Server w/ AstroPrint PcDuino v2

Printrbot Simple 1405 with XL bed and
Printrbot Simple 1311 Printing ABS andPLA on kapton/borosilicate glass
Printrbot XL volume / tower upgrade GT2 X Timing Belts (thing:194686) GT2 Y Timing Belt Mod (thing:194586)
Custom 320 x 230mm aluminum bed frame w/ 3 x 8mm rods
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby HCS-II » 2014-May-Fri-21-May

Ed,

Z-height increase is another issue as it requires not only new 12mm Z rods but also either new Z-rods block (rectangular part bolted underneath the Simple) or disassembly and reassembly of the Z-rod block with the longer rods in. Second option definitely requires one to have access to a hydraulic shop press. It also requires a longer ACME rod. More work but also more $$$.

Chris,

The way you designed the printbed currently requires one to mount the heatbed with the leectrical connection (and likely thermistor) on the underside. Making yet another groove to accommodate the thermistor and wires would probably make the bed too thin. If the bed was it was 3/8" thick it wouldn't be an issue but at 3/16", well... If you make it so the heatbed can be installed with the 6"x6" heatbed's element up, just be aware that the pocket for the thermistor should line-up with the spot on the PCB where it should be soldered. I know that the thermistor from PB comes presoldered on electrical leads but people that know how to solder will want to use the PCB to conduct the thermistor's signal to the edge where the other electrical conductor will be located. In this configuration, you'll also need to make a pocket to ensure that the hi-current 12V wires don't touch the aluminium bed.

A fellow PBSM owner from Montréal...

Mike
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sat-06-May

Our beta tester has opted to kapton on tape the thermistor to the underside of the table,

We will see how that works out.

Montreal?! Awesome, just a stones throw from Ottawa!
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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby Mach-Chris » 2014-May-Sat-12-May

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Re: All-Metal Simple Build Volume Upgrade release date?

Postby MegaMoonMan » 2014-Jun-Mon-23-Jun

Any updates on the Kickstarter? I'm ready to jump onboard.
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