Velleman Printrbot hybrid

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Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Jan-Tue-22-Jan

Been temted by the new Metal Plus but it's a bit more than I want to spend. My local Microcenter had the Velleman K8200 kit on sale for just over $300, I figured I get it for parts but decided to build it with the electronics from my blue plastic printer (formally a PB 1405).

It's huge for an 8x8x8 printer, but it's kind of cool to watch, with the bed moving in X and Y and the hot end just sitting there...

To get it to work the same as the 1405 I had to build Y reversed, not a big deal, the parts in the Velleman kit have lots of extra mounting holes. It did mean I couldn't use any of the measurements in the instructions so had to figure it all out on the fly. I used one of the Velleman extruder plates to mount the Printrbot metal extruder, it's really cool that the Printrbot extruder is reversible because to put the leveling probe next to the hot end I had to have the motor on the other side.

So, parts from the 1405 used: motors, printrboard, extruder, leveling probe. Everything else except the bed from the K8200 kit. Print bed is an old piece of aluminum from something I threw out ages ago. I didn't cut off the angles on the ends of the bed because I might use them someday...

Had to limit X a little to keep the level probe on the aluminum when executing G29, so the max print size is X190, Y200, Z230.

It's printing fairly well, still tweaking settings and motor currents.

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Oh, why I didn't used the Velleman bed, because the stock bed is horrible, it's a bed heater you are printing onto directly, and it's not flat, bowed up in the middle, each corner probably .5mm lower than the center.
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Jan-Mon-11-Jan

Well, I think it's time to tear this thing apart and build something better.

No matter what acceleration and jerk settings I use and messing with belt tensions I'm just not satisfied with the print quality.
Unless I print really slow there is just too much "ringing" (wavy surface after certain sharp corners).
Just too much mass being moved around, in Y especially.

Way too many ideas in my head for how to redo the metal frame and how to do the axes, currently thinking of something T shaped....
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby evanalmighty » 2015-Jan-Mon-14-Jan

Why don't you try Bowden before taking the thing apart?
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Jan-Mon-15-Jan

Bowden would not help, the Velleman moves the bed in X and Y and the hot end only moves in Z.
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby evanalmighty » 2015-Jan-Mon-17-Jan

Oh wow, now I can see why the Velleman is not so popular.
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby orangefurball » 2015-Jan-Mon-17-Jan

My thoughts when designing a printer has always been to keep the bed as stable as possible, these guys went in the total opposite direction!

I hope you can get this thing working well, it seems interesting but not with ringing issues.
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Jan-Mon-20-Jan

Think I have a good starting point to build something similar to the simple metal, reused more than I thought I would be able to. The X carriage is fairly well designed so I'm using that as is but bolted in place. Just have to design a YZ plate, a Y end stop, and the business end of Y...

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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Jan-Wed-01-Jan

Arrrrgh... I had measured the Y motor for how much space would be needed between the aluminum columns, but while messing around with them I moved them closer without thinking, and then proceeded to build based on those positions.... So I just wasted an evening making a YZ plate that will not work.


Really stable though, takes quite a bit of force to push one Y rod down a millimeter even when fully extended, so it should end up being a nice printer, fingers crossed....

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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Jan-Fri-02-Jan

Got it all done this evening, seems to be working very well, need to run my test part for ringing but it feels really solid.

Ended up with a printable area of X200, Y250, Z230.

I designed the extruder support to work with the fan shroud for the metal plus, not sure I like such a large part 2mm from the print surface, but we'll see how it works.

And drumroll.... some pictures:
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby Munson » 2015-Jan-Fri-04-Jan

Nice work,I like that you moved the axis off the bed.I was looking at the this printer and passed it up because the amount of wasted space and restrictions in bed upgrading but you made it all work.
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Jan-Fri-11-Jan

My test prints have come out quite smooth so far, so I think this design is a keeper. I've now got the size I wanted for about 2/5ths the cost of getting the Metal Plus upgrade kit.

Munson wrote:Nice work,I like that you moved the axis off the bed.I was looking at the this printer and passed it up because the amount of wasted space and restrictions in bed upgrading but you made it all work.


There's just too much mass being moved around with the original design, and yes it is a huge amount of space used up for a 200x200 printer. If I wanted to I could cut several of the frame parts to make my configuration use less bench space.
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Feb-Thu-17-Feb

Finally got some extra GT2 belt in so I can switch my X axis over to that instead of the T5, not that I was seeing any issues with using the Velleman T5 pulleys and belts, I just want to get both X and Y using the same type (and same number of steps/mm).

I also made a little fan bracket that clamps onto the holder for the Z probe and blows onto the top of the hot end, just to prevent any softening of the plastic where the extruder is attached to my printed parts.
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Feb-Thu-19-Feb

Got my new X belt installed and calibrated, unexpected bonus is the printer is quieter now.

Picture of the extra fan on it's easily removable bracket:
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Still thinking about a different fan shroud for the main fan, have to look around to see what people are doing for replacements on the metal plus, this rather large shroud with the large flat base just millimeters from the build area has caused a few issues with catching on stray bits of plastic that you get sometimes sticking up.
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Feb-Fri-23-Feb

Hmm, searching around I guess people don't have any complaints about the fan shroud for the Metal Plus, so if I want and new one and keep my current mounting block I'll have to come up with my own shroud design. I opened up the holes on the fan shroud to let more air out, that has helped a lot with bridging and overhang. So I'll stick with this shroud a bit longer...

Pretty happy with the way it's printing now, XY resolution is good, although Z seems to be limited to 200 microns, if I try 100 the extruder starts having issues. Not sure why, the extra 500 steps per mm of the M8 rod compared to the PB acme rod somehow reduces the resolution? Doesn't really matter, I'm never going to print something large at 100 microns since it would take days, I've got my Simple Metal for smaller, more detailed prints.


Last pic, good old Eiffel tower as a final test:

Image
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Feb-Sun-13-Feb

The issue with the extruder clicking when printing at 100 microns has gone away, after switching filament, so I guess it was that batch of filament. The times I measured it I did get diameters from 1.75 to 1.8, I wonder if sections were even larger than that causing over-extrusion when trying to do thin layers. Anyway, I can now get prints on this thing that are nearly as fine as on my Simple Metal if I use the same settings. :D
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby 2Mylent » 2015-Feb-Sun-14-Feb

I love your PrintrFrankenstein :mrgreen:
And more that you print an Eiffel Tower ... :lol:

Excellent work :P
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Feb-Sun-17-Feb

Thanks, I find the Eiffel Tower a pretty good test part, fine details and overhangs from bottom to top. And it doesn't use up a lot of filament, just a lot of time...
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby Littlebuck416 » 2015-Feb-Thu-23-Feb

How do you get you bearings so snug into you printed pieces without any zip ties or clamps?
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Feb-Thu-23-Feb

Littlebuck416 wrote:How do you get you bearings so snug into you printed pieces without any zip ties or clamps?


I made a test block, printed it several times, adjusting the diameter of the hole until the bearings slid in snugly. Making sure I printed it in the same orientation as the YZ block, on it's side, with full supports turn on in Cura.

FYI, it turned out to be a radius of 9.6mm for the LM10UU bearings, printing on my Simple Metal at moderate speed and 0.3mm layers. And a little bit of cleanup with 220 grit sand paper was necessary to get the bearings to slide in smoothly.

Oh, and there are C-clamps on the bearings, so they can't slide out of the holes. Not that that they would, they are pretty snug.
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Mar-Wed-23-Mar

Made a video of the hybrid printing out the 5mm test steps.

http://youtu.be/84yHEjFX4TA
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Jul-Fri-17-Jul

I drilled a few holes and mounted my always on fan permanently, and added some LEDs.

Still enough of a gap to be able to remove the hot end. With the fan in this position the plastic holding the extruder never warms up so I don't have to worry about it softening.

Image

Image
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Nov-Thu-15-Nov

It's been too long since I rebuilt this thing, so I picked up 2 of these and I'm going to start redesigning it as more of a "plus" configuration:

http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00PXJ2LVO

I know, overpriced, but what the heck, it's only money...

Got some crazy ideas on how to build the extruder carriage, to use the excess air flow from the always on fan for the E3D V6 to cool the extruder motor. And I've thought about clamping the motor itself into the box that will make the air flow around the motor, instead of trying to use screws through printed parts to hold the extruder in place.

Guess I'll start a new topic when I get around to building it.
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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Nov-Thu-01-Nov

Had another idea, to design a universal extruder head that I could mount on any future design, so I'm testing it out now before tearing down this printer, just needed to build a new end for the Y rods that the new extruder would mount onto.

So far it is printing very nicely.

Some pictures:

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The half round opening lines up with the lowest cooling fin on the E3D V6, I taped a small piece of aluminum foil over the bottom of the fan and the hole in front to stop any air from that fan going down onto the heating block.

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Re: Velleman Printrbot hybrid

Postby MartyS » 2015-Nov-Fri-23-Nov

5 hours into a 200mm high Eiffel tower print (almost non-stop retraction) and the extruder motor and parts attached to it are cold.

I cut a little off the bottom of my air nozzle to get more air down onto the print, bridging was OK before but now much better.

FYI, if you want to put the E3D V6 all the way into the Printrbot Aluminum extruder you've got to file maybe half a millimeter off the top ring in the spot where the clamping screw goes through.

Now to start figuring out a gantry to use with the parts I have and those threaded rods I picked up...
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