Thingybot Mini $200 3D Printer - Looking For Feedback!

[orangefurball]

Hey everyone!

Haven't visited in quite some time, but I am back and need your help!

I have a new design called the Thingybot Mini. Before I go any further, here are some pictures.

Front.JPG

And a comparison to the Printrbot Play so you can size it up a bit better

PlaySizer.JPG

Anyway, here are some features;

$200 cost for the fully assembled base model!
Print size - 6" x 6" x 5"
Metal frame (15mm extrusions)
Metal hot end (final version will use an E3D clone)
Bowden system - less weight on the carriage
CoreXY style motion system - keeps all motor weight in the back of the machine, meaning that there is less weight to throw around
RAMPS board - no proprietary boards here! Easily modify the printer to add extra features!
The firmware is Repetier Firmware. They just handle the CoreXY system better than Marlin.
No heated bed, but the option is there to DIY one with the RAMPS board
And of course, the design will be released and totally open

The casing is just 3mm acrylic, it will be a (low cost) optional add on. The base model will not include the casing. An LCD will most likely be an optional add on, of course you can just use any RAMPS compatible LCD!

My plans for distribution are to do another Kickstarter. I feel that at the price point I have set it will be a successful campaign and an easy way to gauge exactly how much interest people will have in the printer.

So anyway, I'm looking for some feedback on the printer! If you have any questions I will be dropping by periodically to answer them!

Thanks!

Matt

[frankv]

A very nice piece of design. Well done!

Some feedback questions/ideas for you to think about (I'm not expecting you to reply necessarily):

I'd be very cautious about selling anything with a "clone" E3D hot-end. You may wind up with a lot of support costs and returns. I have 4 E3D "clone" hot-ends, all different. One of them (without a PTFE liner) never worked properly at all. Two were intermittently bad, but by combining the parts from these 3 I currently have a good reliable hot-end. The 4th one came with my Delta printer, and much to my surprise, has been very, very good.

Is there room on the print head for a Diamond hot-end ("clone")? And also room for a RAMPS extender board, and a larger PSU?

The print head seems to be right off the front & side of the bed? So you could perhaps increase the bed dimensions by 25mm or so each way?

Use countersunk screws to attack the bed, so that the nozzle can't crash into the screw heads.

I take it the bed is mounted on springs for levelling?

No auto-levelling?

Presumably the bed descends while printing? Does the bed stay really level?

Is there any reason not to make it (say) twice as tall?

Diagonal braces across the top (above the moving parts) would improve rigidity.

Put the extruder at the front to make it easier to change filament.

Is the hot-end accessible for disassembly and/or clearing jams?

[orangefurball]

A very nice piece of design. Well done!

Thank you!

I'd be very cautious about selling anything with a "clone" E3D hot-end. You may wind up with a lot of support costs and returns. I have 4 E3D "clone" hot-ends, all different. One of them (without a PTFE liner) never worked properly at all. Two were intermittently bad, but by combining the parts from these 3 I currently have a good reliable hot-end. The 4th one came with my Delta printer, and much to my surprise, has been very, very good.

This is something I have been very weary about. Right now the printer is using a Mini Hotend that I picked up from Shai at Deltaprintr.com

I would like to use this hot end or a genuine E3D hot end, but it really came down to cost. Wholesale, both of these hot ends are around $35 while the E3D clone is under $5. Obviously none of this is written in stone, but I did want to hit a low, low price point. I am still looking into other hot ends but with all of them that are available it’s hard not to miss some. Any recommendations are always appreciated and benefit me greatly.

As for the clones not being up to par, I agree. I have used quite a bit of these clones as well from various distributors and have finally landed on one that seems to work well. Filament switching, repeated, long extrusions, and overall build quality are relatively high. This one is from Anycubic. I will of course continue my testing and verify that it wasn’t just one “good” clone from them. I do NOT want to have any printer go out with jamming issues. I have dealt with many in my 3D printing journey. Given the low price point I predict a lot of first-time users will pick this up. I want to make a good impression on the newbies

Is there room on the print head for a Diamond hot-end ("clone")? And also room for a RAMPS extender board, and a larger PSU?

Possibly. The printer would probably lose some build volume. Things are pretty tight in there as is. As for the RAMPS extender there is for sure room in the basement. A larger PSU is a different question. Right now I am using a laptop style brick, so a larger external PSU would be the best way to go.

The print head seems to be right off the front & side of the bed? So you could perhaps increase the bed dimensions by 25mm or so each way?

I think that is just some weird angle from the camera due to the bed being at the bottom and the hot end being at the top. The hot end nozzle lines up around 3mm off of each side of the bed. Not much room for increased dimensions.

Use countersunk screws to attack the bed, so that the nozzle can't crash into the screw heads.

If I use the aluminum bed I will be sure to use countersunk screws!

I take it the bed is mounted on springs for levelling?

No auto-levelling?

For the prototype, yes they are on springs. As for the final version? It really all depends on whether I stick with the aluminum or not. I most likely will. And if I do, auto leveling will be there. There is more than enough room for a probe and the cost of the probe is actually less than the springs.

Presumably the bed descends while printing? Does the bed stay really level?

It does! The bed stays very level. I had 4 rods total for the Z originally, two on the left and two on the right, but after testing both designs I saw no difference in just using two.

Is there any reason not to make it (say) twice as tall?

None. Well one, and that of course is cost. That being said, if the end user wanted to make the machine taller it would be a relatively simple mod. Just replacing the Z rods, extrusions, and T8 screw with longer ones.

Diagonal braces across the top (above the moving parts) would improve rigidity.

If the printer was larger this would be necessary, but being that it is only ~12 inches square it stays very rigid. I obviously do not recommend this, but I was able to stand on the frame. Minus the X and Y components of course.

Put the extruder at the front to make it easier to change filament.

This is an awesome idea.

Is the hot-end accessible for disassembly and/or clearing jams?

It is! Right now only two screws hold it on, but I’m hoping for a clip design that will let it be taken off in seconds.

Thank you for the feedback!!

Matt

[WayTooManyHobbies]

Looks nice. I second making the extruder as accessible as possible.

Using the deltaprintr mini hotend was a nice touch for the prototype. I wish that would be a cost-effective solution, as it would certainly maximize the build volume. Hopefully you will release the mount design files, so people can retrofit.

I'd certainly be interested in it when it hits Kickstarter, so keep us informed!

[orangefurball]

Looks nice. I second making the extruder as accessible as possible.

Using the deltaprintr mini hotend was a nice touch for the prototype. I wish that would be a cost-effective solution, as it would certainly maximize the build volume. Hopefully you will release the mount design files, so people can retrofit.

I'd certainly be interested in it when it hits Kickstarter, so keep us informed!

I agree, and I've already tweaked the design to have it in front!

I agree that the Deltaprintr mini hot end would be great to have, but adding $30 to the build cost is a large chunk. Maybe if I can shave some off of other places. I'll have to see!

I will be sure to update everyone when it goes live

[Mooselake]

Offer the better extruder as an option.

Does this.mean the current KS is about done?

The $200 space is getting pretty crowded, and the Monoprice printer is pretty tough competition, in addition to being able to ship today. You'll need to work pretty hard to stand out.

Kirk
On the beach in troll land

[orangefurball]

Offer the better extruder as an option.

Does this.mean the current KS is about done?

The $200 space is getting pretty crowded, and the Monoprice printer is pretty tough competition, in addition to being able to ship today. You'll need to work pretty hard to stand out.

Kirk
On the beach in troll land

That could work. Or maybe just cutting out some of my profit margins for the mini hot end, or manufacturing a small hot end. There are plenty of options out there that I have yet to explore.

Current KS is nearly done! Shipments are starting at the middle of next week and should all finish by mid September.

I agree, there are plenty of options out there, but at the same time I don't see many 150mmx150mm printers in that price range. The Monoprice printer is tough competition. The others out there I think the Thingybot Mini beats. The Monoprice Select Mini is swaying me more towards the inclusion of an LCD out of the box and using the mini hot end. Like I said, still looking into all of my options!

Edit to add: adding auto bed leveling would be another stand out feature on the printer.

[WayTooManyHobbies]

Autoleveling would be a solid improvement over other printers in that price range.

I can think of a couple of fairly low-cost differentiators from the crowd. With the proliferation of cheap SBCs, you could build in an Octoprint server as a low cost option. The Pi Zero, Omega2, and CHiP are all pretty cheap and very small. The latter two even have built-in WiFi. Even making provisions for the user to add their own SBC easily would make the printer stand out a bit.

Another one, and perhaps more appealing, is to design the carriage to accommodate two hot ends out of the box. Ideally, that would be a bolt-in-ready option - have the extra wires already in the harness. This would require some thought to make sure there's an integrated and simple way to level the hot ends to each other.

[orangefurball]

Autoleveling would be a solid improvement over other printers in that price range.

I can think of a couple of fairly low-cost differentiators from the crowd. With the proliferation of cheap SBCs, you could build in an Octoprint server as a low cost option. The Pi Zero, Omega2, and CHiP are all pretty cheap and very small. The latter two even have built-in WiFi. Even making provisions for the user to add their own SBC easily would make the printer stand out a bit.

I like the option of Octoprint, just not sure if it would work in the price range. There isn't much more room in the budget. However I can see Octoprint being the standard on a "Pro" model that can also include a heated bed or something like that. Similar to how my Thingybot Deltas come in "standard" and "Pro" models.

Another one, and perhaps more appealing, is to design the carriage to accommodate two hot ends out of the box. Ideally, that would be a bolt-in-ready option - have the extra wires already in the harness. This would require some thought to make sure there's an integrated and simple way to level the hot ends to each other.

Now this is a much harder one. Using the RAMPS system the printer is already compatible with two hot ends, however the gantry just doesn't have that much room on it. Not with auto level plus a hot end.

That being said, what if the "Pro" model I talked about earlier was actually a bit larger? Say a 200mm cubed build volume while still keeping the same assembly style as the Thingybot Mini. Let's say it's more in the mid-high range $400 price point, for example.

The Thingybot Mini is around 250mmx250mmx350mm in total size. By using the same parts from the Thingybot Mini and just lengthening the extrusions and rods (also changing bed size of course) I can make a printer that is 350mmx350mmx550mm that has a ~225mmx225mmx225mm build volume. This leaves plenty of room for a Diamond hot end, or even just traditional dual extruders. Even a Chimera or Cyclops. Plus there would be plenty of room for auto level.

I'm thinking that this would have to be the way to go for the dual or diamond hot ends. There is also the option of making the Thingybot Mini larger while keeping the same build volume, but at the same time I really wanted to keep the amount of space it takes up on your desk as small as possible. It is a "Mini"!

[orangefurball]

Hey everyone!

I took all of your feedback from here and some people who have been messaging me about the machine and have come up with a total remodel.

Here are some pictures of the design. This is a draft only, so things will most likely change, however it should remain mostly unchanged.

CV_Extruder.png

CV_Back.png

CV_Top.png

CV_Angle.png

Alright! Now onto what has changed...

The Good
*No more extrusions! CNC cut aluminum bent into a custom frame replaces the plastic joints and 1 5mm extrusions for a clean, consumer friendly look.
*Auto level! No more pesky screws and endstops.
*Dual extruder support! While the hot end mount doesn't have a spot for a second hot end, the casing already has a second extruder spot punched in. Just design/print a hot end mount compatible with your dual hot end choice and get printing!
*Metal>Plastic! The motors are now mounted on the metal frame, goodbye fear of warping or melting!
*LCD! An LCD is included out of the box!
*Better cable management! The wires for the top of the machine are now easily tucked next to the Z rod mounts thanks to the extra room in the case now that it lacks the 15mm extrusion frame.
* More Z height! The Thingybot Mini now has ~7 inches of build height (175 mm)

The Bad
*Harder to build at home, you need custom cut metal parts. The aluminum extrusion version will be released as a "Makers Edition" to download for the DIYers out there.
*Not as easy to expand. The custom metal parts make scaling up of the machine difficult.
*The price will probably be higher. I'm shooting for $250-$300, hopefully the lower. Obviously the addition of the LCD, custom case, increased Z height, and auto level don't come free.
*The machine is slightly larger at 250 mm x 305 mm x 375 mm

So what does everyone think of this one? I am getting the metal cut soon to make some prototypes for testing, but I am very happy with the printer at this point. With the higher price it will be harder to beat the Monoprice printer, but there are a lot of features packed into this printer to separate it from the competition.

[Mooselake]

Looks good!

I suggest you order one of the Monoprice minis for a comparison, plus it'll give you an idea if the arm controller is any better. I'd do it if there weren't too many projects in the moosecave already, making an Arduino powered spot welder and ordered parts for a micro usb tester (ever try to find an inexpensive one?). Plus that new delta...

Kirk

[orangefurball]

Looks good!

I suggest you order one of the Monoprice minis for a comparison, plus it'll give you an idea if the arm controller is any better. I'd do it if there weren't too many projects in the moosecave already, making an Arduino powered spot welder and ordered parts for a micro usb tester (ever try to find an inexpensive one?). Plus that new delta...

Kirk

Thanks! I think it fits with the Thingybot aesthetic better than the acrylic/extrusions did.

I'll definitely be getting one. Not only for research purposes but because I have an addiction to 3D printers. That being said, can you really ever have too many projects?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mooselake]

can you really ever have too many projects?

Never! But you can have way too little time to do them in.

I know it's (gasp) against the reprap movement, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the average reprap builder not having CNC water jet cutters and metal benders. Not too many of them have their own semiconductor foundries to make the MCUs and stepper driver chips, the ability to make ball bearings (although you can print your own sliding bearings), hardened chromed steel rods, stepper motors, etc.

A couple more printer models and you'll need to get your own water jet and heavy duty tin bender. There's always a bigger CNC machine (or even a Sawsall and steady hand) and one of those fits in a vise benders in the interim. Like projects, you can never have too many tools (or too many bins of electronic parts).

Kirk

[KD6HQ]

Hello Orange
Glad to see that you are doing well, I've been gone for about a year but am back now and starting to burn up some plastic.
Have you considered a E3D-Lite6 ? The new owner could have a taste and upgrade if they wanted to. You should not have any worries with it. Just a thought.

[orangefurball]

Hello Orange
Glad to see that you are doing well, I've been gone for about a year but am back now and starting to burn up some plastic.
Have you considered a E3D-Lite6 ? The new owner could have a taste and upgrade if they wanted to. You should not have any worries with it. Just a thought.

Wow it has been a really long time! Glad to see you are back!

As of right now, it looks like the campaign will go a little something like this.

$250 price tag (subject to change, but won't go up any higher than that) for the metal printer from the CAD model.

That includes the knockoff E3D v6, but is modified slightly to avoid jamming. These problems stem from the throat not having PTFE and not being smooth on the inside. At least that is what I have found from my testing.

From there backers (and in the future, web orders) will be able to upgrade to the E3D Lite6 or v6.

A heated a bed option won't be available during the campaign. Why? I've learned from the Delta campaign that having too many options doesn't end well for order fulfillment. So after the Kickstarter printers are 100% out I will add the headed bed to the website for ordering.

Speaking of too many options, the color options are shrinking to White/Orange and Black/Orange. This makes the guys painting them have a much easier time, makes keeping stock of the parts easier, and are [in my opinion] the best color options.

Now a huge problem that I had with the Delta campaign was the sheer amount of part suppliers and not knowing exactly who I can trust to fulfill my orders. I got burned by quite a few suppliers (some big name ones that would surprise you) and now have a firm grasp on who will be able to supply the parts for the Mini. The supplier list was 15-20 different companies for the Delta, for the Mini it is 5; all of which have been a pleasure to work with.

I really do want to thank everyone for their feedback, the change from the aluminum extrusion acrylic clad printer to the new Mini is night and day. The next update will have pictures of the new Mini.

[orangefurball]

can you really ever have too many projects?

Never! But you can have way too little time to do them in.

I know it's (gasp) against the reprap movement, but I wouldn't be too concerned about the average reprap builder not having CNC water jet cutters and metal benders. Not too many of them have their own semiconductor foundries to make the MCUs and stepper driver chips, the ability to make ball bearings (although you can print your own sliding bearings), hardened chromed steel rods, stepper motors, etc.

A couple more printer models and you'll need to get your own water jet and heavy duty tin bender. There's always a bigger CNC machine (or even a Sawsall and steady hand) and one of those fits in a vise benders in the interim. Like projects, you can never have too many tools (or too many bins of electronic parts).

Kirk

You are right. I will still release the Mini made with the extrusions eventually, but for the consumer version it is better using the CNC metal frame. Also takes only a half hour to build each one!

The ability to CNC my own parts would be awesome. Hopefully one day