wooden filament

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wooden filament

Postby ken schmitt » 2012-Sep-Thu-08-Sep

http://www.3ders.org/articles/20120920-laywoo-d3-new-fdm-filament-can-print-wood-with-tree-rings.html

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"This wood filament LAYWOO-D3 is a wood/polymer composite - the filament contains recycled wood and harmless binding polymers. The material has similar thermal durability as PLA and can be printed between 175°C and 250°C. "After printing it looks like wood and smells like wood." Depending on the temperature you can even print wooden-like objects with annual rings. At 180°C, the prints has a light color, at 245°C it becomes darker. Afterwards the printed objects can be cut, grinded or painted. "
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Re: wooden filament

Postby PxT » 2012-Sep-Thu-11-Sep

Wow. WANT!
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Re: wooden filament

Postby Mooselake » 2012-Sep-Thu-14-Sep

PxT wrote:Wow. WANT!

It was listed on eBay Germany but seems to be sold. Perhaps if you messaged the seller/developer? They say on Thingiverse it'll be available for sale soon, not sure if that's the Kickstarter "soon".

Print your own woodie. I mean the car, get your mind out of the gutter.

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Re: wooden filament

Postby holmes4 » 2012-Sep-Thu-15-Sep

This is fabulous. I'll definitely want some once it's available.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby jkocurek » 2012-Sep-Sat-19-Sep

There is another way to do it. There is a German company which makes a plastic from lignin.

http://blogs.howstuffworks.com/2010/07/ ... like-wood/

No reason which filament cannot be made from it.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby scantrontb » 2012-Sep-Sun-00-Sep

woot woot!... now i can make my own set of custom designed Lincoln Logs!... yeah!
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Re: wooden filament

Postby wasty » 2012-Sep-Fri-09-Sep

i just ordered 2x 0.25kg from www.grrf.de...
I am curious about the the prints :-)
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Re: wooden filament

Postby PxT » 2012-Sep-Fri-11-Sep

Please post your results. I would like to get some but with shipping to the US it is about $115 per kilo which is a bit much.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby plexus » 2012-Sep-Fri-12-Sep

I just ordered 1kg of the wood filament. shipping was 20 euro and that also included a spool of PS filament too! and on checkout for some reason the prices were discounted down to 15 euro per 0.25kg spool of the wood. total for 4x 0.25kg wood and 1x 0.75kg PS with shipping converted to canadian was $138.

UPDATE: I emailed them about lead time. they said 3-5 weeks from order time to delivery. i can wait for my wood.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby vgvallee » 2012-Oct-Wed-17-Oct

It looks like a fun material. Make sure to let us know the results using it.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby wasty » 2012-Oct-Mon-15-Oct

got mine today.
The feeling when you hold it in your hand is nice. something between saw dust, cork and wood.
But as i read somewhere (i think it was thingiverse) it leaks like hell. Like when letting a hot glue gun become to hot...
Temperature control is tricky. i printed 210°C and 90° Bed. it was a bit dark as burned toast on the bed layer. :-)
Ah yes, and i didn't spend much time on settings... :D

P1000185.JPG

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P1000185.JPG

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Re: wooden filament

Postby mdfast1 » 2012-Oct-Tue-14-Oct

Mmm looks like toasted wheat cereal.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby SolidVis » 2012-Oct-Tue-18-Oct

wasty wrote:got mine today.
The feeling when you hold it in your hand is nice. something between saw dust, cork and wood.


WOW. And how it looks like when you sand it to hide the extrusion strings?
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Re: wooden filament

Postby plexus » 2012-Oct-Wed-13-Oct

I got the wood filament today. the label on the bag has "cherry" checked off and "pine" not checked. on their site the pictures show what I think is pine and thats what i wanted. not something darker. did you get cherry or pine?

FYI I bought 1kg. with shipping split between the wood and some PS filament, it comes out to about $90CAD/kg for the wood filament.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby Marcus » 2012-Oct-Wed-14-Oct

plexus wrote: it comes out to about $90CAD/kg for the wood filament.

THIS confuses me :-)
At the moment 4*250g (1KG) cost ~71,80 EUR == 92.98 CAD ---- plus shipping... (18,28€ according to their estimate)
Did they change the price?

PS: It would be possible to ship <=1KG for 7€ and <=0.5KG for 3,45€
(Großbrief/Maxibrief international, W+H+L = max. 90 cm)
Would be a nice option to get smaller amounts shipped to other countries.

Group buy and re-packing from within germany (no shipping for orders above 150€)? :mrgreen:
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Re: wooden filament

Postby plexus » 2012-Oct-Wed-20-Oct

Marcus wrote:
plexus wrote: it comes out to about $90CAD/kg for the wood filament.

THIS confuses me :-)
At the moment 4*250g (1KG) cost ~71,80 EUR == 92.98 CAD ---- plus shipping... (18,28€ according to their estimate)
Did they change the price?

PS: It would be possible to ship <=1KG for 7€ and <=0.5KG for 3,45€
(Großbrief/Maxibrief international, W+H+L = max. 90 cm)
Would be a nice option to get smaller amounts shipped to other countries.

Group buy and re-packing from within germany (no shipping for orders above 150€)? :mrgreen:


I paid 15.08€ per 250g plus 20€ shipping but this was also for 750g PS so i figure split the shipping so 10€ for the wood filament. so basically 70€. but unless you buy other stuff to spread the shipping over, you are in for the full 18€.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby plexus » 2012-Nov-Thu-01-Nov

ok how do you use this stuff? i tried printing a small thing and it was very soft moving up the layers. so soft that it moves the whole object around when printing. i was using extruder temps 195-230C and bed at 80C.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby jkocurek » 2012-Nov-Sun-08-Nov

It was discounted down because they backed out the VAT because it was exported.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby Mooselake » 2012-Nov-Tue-12-Nov

Interesting Cura plugin for those of you who've bought this filament, makes it look like woodgrain by varying the temp while printing.

No, I don't use Cura(it's on the list) or print with wood, and haven't tried it.

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Re: wooden filament

Postby barretzhang » 2012-Dec-Wed-07-Dec

that's great
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we mainly provide the ABS,pla filament for 3D printer,with multi-diameter(3mm,2mm,1.75mm),and wo could supplied the color by your request.


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Re: wooden filament

Postby notwebsafe » 2013-Jan-Tue-03-Jan

Curious whether others have been experimenting with this on the PB Jr. I just got some of the cherry (the pine is out). I like the appearance of the material, but it's definitely trickier to print with.

Unlike the blog post linked above (which recommends temps over 205), I'm finding that 190C seems to be a sweet spot--anything higher and it seems to extrude/leak too much, and I haven't gotten any clogging at that temperature.

That said, it doesn't seem to shape as accurately as PLA--fine details get lost in the perimeters. Also, my infills are messier--the strings often "pull up" and don't connect to the perimeters at the ends. Small top layers are a mess too--I tried printing out a small gargoyle, and it mostly did fine until the top small layers (where surfaces converged to points), which turned into spaghetti (even with "slow down small layers" turned on). Bigger prints with larger features seem to work better.

I checked my extrusion calibration and the E steps are a bit low, but I'm assuming that because it's so "leaky" that's probably not a bad thing...the strings that it prints seem a bit thick as it is.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby plexus » 2013-Jan-Tue-13-Jan

I've been experimenting with with the LAY-WOO-D3 wood filament lately. the first batch I bought, 750g, was much darker than the second batch of 2kg I bought. one thing I will advise is do not use anything smaller than a 0.5mm nozzle with the wood filament. I put on a 0.35mm nozzle and was merrily printing away with ABS and PLA. then i printed a small wood thing. after that I was getting horrible infill. the only thing I could think of was an clogged nozzle. so i cleaned out the nozzle by soaking in acetone and using a pick. there was a fair amount of what appeared to be almost black wood filament jammed in there. after i cleaned it out i tried again with the wood filament. disaster. the filament wouldn't extrude and it was a real chore to clean it out.

but when I have printed with a 0.5mm nozzle it worked pretty well and there was no sign of clogging. so i think 0.35mm is too narrow for the wood particles in the filament.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby notwebsafe » 2013-Jan-Thu-23-Jan

I also found that setting retraction to 2mm instead of 1mm seems to improve the leakage a bit during prints.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Tue-12-Feb

I am having trouble with printing with LAYWOO-D3. the biggest issue is nozzle clog. i am using a 0.5mm nozzle with it and I keep getting clogs. does anyone know a) what solvent works with LAYWOO-D3, b) the best way to clear out a clog (assuming we don't know what solvent works - acetone barely works) and c) how to prevent clogs in the future.

the stuff is quite expensive, at about $100/kg and i'd like to stop wasting it. if its not possible i would prefer to sell it to someone who can better print with it so im not wasting it.

I have started about 4 prints of a cube object 60x60x60mm approx. i barely get 1/2 way when i run into trouble, either clogs or the filament snaps because it comes on "air spools" which do not unspool very well, and the filament is very brittle.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Wed-15-Feb

UPDATE: I was able to print a full "thing" with the wood filament. really it was just a matter of the hot end not clogging and the filament not breaking, two things which have been plaguing my attempts to use LAYWOO-D3. it worked out really nice. I printed using 0.5mm layers which may have helped because there would be more material flowing. before I was printing with 0.3mm layers.

It works out really nice. I wish Repetier-host would support a couple ideas I posted on their github. one is a graphical interface that allows creating both a hot bed and extruder temp profile. basically you can use it to control the temps over the duration of the print. this would be useful with the wood filament to create wood grain profiles! I think skeinforge can do this but i'd like to see it as part of Repetier-host.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby halley » 2013-Feb-Wed-15-Feb

plexus wrote:two things which have been plaguing my attempts to use LAYWOO-D3. it worked out really nice. I printed using 0.5mm layers which may have helped because there would be more material flowing. this would be useful with the wood filament to create wood grain profiles! I think skeinforge can do this but i'd like to see it as part of Repetier-host.


I have a sample of laywood but haven't tried it yet. I am proficient in perl, so I was going to make a post-processing script that would vary temperature on layer changes. I'll write the script tonight and post it; a non-configurable sinusoidal grain version would be one line of code. Making "grain profiles" would take another four or five lines. Slic3r can run such scripts automatically but if you know how to run commands at the command line, you can use it too.

I'm watching your experiments closely, and I'll be sure to try 0.5mm layers on day one.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Wed-16-Feb

halley wrote:I have a sample of laywood but haven't tried it yet. I am proficient in perl, so I was going to make a post-processing script that would vary temperature on layer changes. I'll write the script tonight and post it; a non-configurable sinusoidal grain version would be one line of code. Making "grain profiles" would take another four or five lines. Slic3r can run such scripts automatically but if you know how to run commands at the command line, you can use it too.

I'm watching your experiments closely, and I'll be sure to try 0.5mm layers on day one.


I am not a coder. the ability to actually automate a wood grain pattern would be really fantastic. any chance you could implement a Perlin noise algorithm to better simulate wood grain? the ability to adjust some variables like upper and lower temp limits as well as something to affect the frequency of the noise would be great. http://freespace.virgin.net/hugo.elias/ ... perlin.htm
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Re: wooden filament

Postby halley » 2013-Feb-Wed-21-Feb

A sinusoidal woodgrain generator that should work in Slic3r using its post-processing capability.

Code: Select all
#!/usr/bin/env perl -pi.bak

sub grain { my $z = shift; return sin($z * 1.5) * 22.5 + 207.5; }

$_ .= "M109 S" . int(grain($1)) . $/
    if m{^ G[01] \s+ Z([\d.]+) }ix;


The contents of the "grain" function can be any function of the Z coordinate, but here it's a sinusoid that is centered at 207.5 and swings ±22.5 a little over 4.5 units wavelength.

The rest of the random cat-types-on-keyboard part is perl magic. Basically, if it spots a "G1 Z____" or "G0 Z____" line, it calls the grain function and gives it the Z coordinate, and adds a new M109 S____ line immediately afterwards. Since Z is measured in millimeters, that's a sine wave from 185ºC to 230ºC and back, every 4.5mm or so. I chop the temperature into integer degrees Celsius, to avoid any gcode parsing bugs with too many decimal places. (I've heard some machines are not accurate with overspecified numbers like 188.1234567890.)

If you put this in a file called woody.pl (cut and paste accurately!), you should be able to call on woody.pl with the slic3r post-processing script capability.

Edit: I will implement a 1-degree Perlin Noise function for the grain. It will take a bit more time to do that, and test it thoroughly.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Wed-22-Feb

halley wrote:If you put this in a file called woody.pl (cut and paste accurately!), you should be able to call on woody.pl with the slic3r post-processing script capability.


I just spent an hour with google and slic3r trying to get this to work. so i have to ask now: i am on a mac. i see the "Post-processing scripts" field. what do i put in there? i put a path to the woody.pl file which is your script. that didnt work. i tried putting the script itself in there. that didn't work. i chmod'ed woody.pl to 777. that didn't work with the path.

any ideas?
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Re: wooden filament

Postby halley » 2013-Feb-Thu-06-Feb

http://i.imgur.com/kmPmi1H.png

It didn't need chmod 777. Full path required (as the Slic3r pages instructed me). Never use folder names or filenames with spaces if you're going to work with them with scripts.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Thu-21-Feb

halley wrote:http://i.imgur.com/kmPmi1H.png

It didn't need chmod 777. Full path required (as the Slic3r pages instructed me). Never use folder names or filenames with spaces if you're going to work with them with scripts.


well i got your script to put the M109's in the gcode. thing is, M109 is "WAIT for extruder to reach temp" - the result is that at every M109 the printer stops for the extruder to change temp. with the wood filament this is catastrophic as the filament oozes out profusely creating a puddle of melted filament where it stopped.

did you test this?

I think you want M104
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Re: wooden filament

Postby halley » 2013-Feb-Thu-22-Feb

No, I haven't tested laywood at all, so I didn't know if it was going to drool or not, and using M104 instead of M109 is just fine.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Thu-22-Feb

yes, if you change it to M104, then it works. i am doing a test print now. the temps are fluctuating. it will be interesting to see how the computed temps and the actual temp interact with each other.

UPDATE: did a couple test prints. its challenging. using the wood filament is a bit of a challenge. especially if you are printing fast and/or small. bigger things, ok. my test pentahedron was a little too small but it gave me a sense of the way it works. i think the temps needed to be reduced. and perhaps a wider amplitude. i think that youd have to adjust the "geometry" of the computation depending on what you are printing, the size of it.

Here are some temp graphs (dim line is set temp, thicker line is actual temp). i will post pics soon.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby scantrontb » 2013-Feb-Fri-13-Feb

those are actually pretty cool pics... how did you do that? and just to be thorough, what are the other color coded lines?
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Re: wooden filament

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Fri-14-Feb

scantrontb wrote:those are actually pretty cool pics... how did you do that? and just to be thorough, what are the other color coded lines?


Repetier-host. I dont understand why anyone would use Pronterface over Repetier-host. but anyway...

top violet: set hot end temp
red: actual hot end temp
bottom violet: set bed temp
blue: actual bed temp

graph underneath is power consumption. im not sure how its calculating that.

Notice the lag between set temp and actual temp. this makes it a challenge to make an effective wood grain algorithm. the time to go from layer to layer is going to vary depending on the size and nature of the print. an ideal wood grain process will take into consideration layer print time. however this would have to involve more analysis of the gcode and so would need a pretty passionate and dedicated coder to write something like that.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby scantrontb » 2013-Feb-Fri-15-Feb

plexus wrote:Notice the lag between set temp and actual temp. in some cases its as much as 15 minutes.



um, don't you mean 15 SECONDS? unless you were doing a 59 HOUR print, the X-Axis of your graphs seem to be reading in minutes/ seconds, not hours/minutes...

yes sorry. revised.
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Re: wooden filament

Postby liuyelian » 2013-Jun-Fri-03-Jun

They say on Thingiverse it'll be available for sale soon, not sure if that's the Kickstarter "soon".




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Wooden printed zelda crest of hyrule

Postby mothy » 2013-Aug-Sun-19-Aug

Here is a thing I printed with a 10m sample of laywoo-d3 check it out.
Started at 185, but was jamming the extruder, luckily I saved it, cranked it up to 210 after the first few layers, Its not perfect but i like how forgiving this filament is, looks like wood!
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Re: wooden filament

Postby EvaMMF » 2013-Oct-Fri-05-Oct

Bookend printed in laywood at work. Print went ok, except did burn on the 'ears' (I guess owls arent suppose to have ears anyway!). I'm not massively keen on the finish but nice to try out a new filament.

owly.JPG
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Re: wooden filament

Postby plexus » 2013-Oct-Fri-15-Oct

Try using one of the python scripts that will change the hot end temp and simulate wood grain. this is where the wood filament really shines.

I use this one

Code: Select all
#!/usr/bin/python

#Name: Wood
#Info: Vary the print temperature troughout the print to create wood rings with the LayWood printing material
#Depend: GCode
#Type: postprocess
#Param: minTemp(float:180) Min print temperature (c)
#Param: maxTemp(float:230) Max print temperature (c)
#Param: grainSize(float:3.0) Average Grain Size (mm)

import re
import random
import math
import sys
import getopt

__author__ = 'Jeremie Francois (jeremie.francois@gmail.com)'
__date__ = '$Date: 2012/10/26 $'
__license__ = 'GNU Affero General Public License http://www.gnu.org/licenses/agpl.html'

def getValue(line, key, default = None):
   if not key in line or (';' in line and line.find(key) > line.find(';')):
      return default
   subPart = line[line.find(key) + 1:]
   m = re.search('^[0-9]+\.?[0-9]*', subPart)
   if m == None:
      return default
   try:
      return float(m.group(0))
   except:
      return default

class Perlin:
   # Perlin noise: http://mrl.nyu.edu/~perlin/noise/

   def __init__(self, tiledim=256):
      self.tiledim= tiledim
      self.perm = [None]*2*tiledim

      permutation = []
      for value in xrange(tiledim): permutation.append(value)
      random.shuffle(permutation)

      for i in xrange(tiledim):
         self.perm[i] = permutation[i]
         self.perm[tiledim+i] = self.perm[i]

   def fade(self, t):
      return t * t * t * (t * (t * 6 - 15) + 10)

   def lerp(self, t, a, b):
      return a + t * (b - a)

   def grad(self, hash, x, y, z):
      #CONVERT LO 4 BITS OF HASH CODE INTO 12 GRADIENT DIRECTIONS.
      h = hash & 15
      if h < 8: u = x
      else:     u = y
      if h < 4: v = y
      else:
         if h == 12 or h == 14: v = x
         else:                  v = z
      if h&1 == 0: first = u
      else:        first = -u
      if h&2 == 0: second = v
      else:        second = -v
      return first + second

   def noise(self, x,y,z):
      #FIND UNIT CUBE THAT CONTAINS POINT.
      X = int(x)&(self.tiledim-1)
      Y = int(y)&(self.tiledim-1)
      Z = int(z)&(self.tiledim-1)
      #FIND RELATIVE X,Y,Z OF POINT IN CUBE.
      x -= int(x)
      y -= int(y)
      z -= int(z)
      #COMPUTE FADE CURVES FOR EACH OF X,Y,Z.
      u = self.fade(x)
      v = self.fade(y)
      w = self.fade(z)
      #HASH COORDINATES OF THE 8 CUBE CORNERS
      A = self.perm[X  ]+Y; AA = self.perm[A]+Z; AB = self.perm[A+1]+Z
      B = self.perm[X+1]+Y; BA = self.perm[B]+Z; BB = self.perm[B+1]+Z
      #AND ADD BLENDED RESULTS FROM 8 CORNERS OF CUBE
      return self.lerp(w,self.lerp(v,
            self.lerp(u,self.grad(self.perm[AA  ],x  ,y  ,z  ), self.grad(self.perm[BA  ],x-1,y  ,z  )),
            self.lerp(u,self.grad(self.perm[AB  ],x  ,y-1,z  ), self.grad(self.perm[BB  ],x-1,y-1,z  ))),
         self.lerp(v,
            self.lerp(u,self.grad(self.perm[AA+1],x  ,y  ,z-1), self.grad(self.perm[BA+1],x-1,y  ,z-1)),
            self.lerp(u,self.grad(self.perm[AB+1],x  ,y-1,z-1), self.grad(self.perm[BB+1],x-1,y-1,z-1))))

   def fractal(self, octaves, persistence, x,y,z, frequency=1):
      value = 0.0
      amplitude = 1.0
      totalAmplitude= 0.0
      for octave in xrange(octaves):
         n= self.noise(x*frequency,y*frequency,z*frequency)
         value += amplitude * n
         totalAmplitude += amplitude
         amplitude *= persistence
         frequency *= 2
      return value / totalAmplitude

def usage():
   print "Wood.py -h -g <grainSize> -i <input> -o <output> -n <minTemp> -x <maxTemp>"
   
def main(argv):
   filenameIn = ''
   filenameOut = ''
   grainSize = 3
   minTemp = 190
   maxTemp = 240

   try:                               
      opts, args = getopt.getopt(argv, "g:hi:o:n:x:", ["grainSize", "help", "filenameIn=", "filenameOut=", "minTemp=", "maxTemp="])
   except getopt.GetoptError:         
      usage()                         
      sys.exit(2)                     
   for opt, arg in opts:
      if opt in ("-h", "--help"):
         usage()
         sys.exit()
      elif opt in ("-g", "--grainSize"):
         grainSize = arg
      elif opt in ("-i", "--filenameIn"):
         filenameIn = arg
      elif opt in ("-o", "--filenameOut"):
         filenameOut = arg
      elif opt in ("-n", "--minTemp"):
         minTemp = arg
      elif opt in ("-x", "--maxTemp"):
         maxTemp = arg

   if filenameIn == "":
      filenameIn = "xaxis.gcode"
      
   with open(filenameIn, "r") as f:
      lines = f.readlines()

   #Find the total height of the object
   maxZ = 0
   z = 0
   for line in lines:
      if getValue(line, 'G', None) == 1:
         z = getValue(line, 'Z', z)
         if maxZ < z:
            maxZ = z

   "First pass generates the noise curve, we'll normalize it afterwards because the user expects to reach the min & max temperatures"
   perlin = Perlin()
   noises = []
   banding = 5
   octaves = 3
   persistence = 0.5
   z = 0
   for line in lines:
      if getValue(line, 'G', None) == 1:
         newZ = getValue(line, 'Z', z)
         if newZ != z:
            z = newZ
            noise= banding * perlin.fractal(octaves, persistence, 0,0,z/(grainSize*2));
            noise = (noise - math.floor(noise))
            noises.append(noise)
   temps = []
   maxNoises = max(noises)
   minNoises = min(noises)
   for n in noises:
      nn = ( n - minNoises ) / ( maxNoises - minNoises )
      temps.append(minTemp + (maxTemp - minTemp) * nn)

   #Save the file with M104 temperature settings per layer
   z = 0
   idx = 0
   if filenameOut == "":
      filenameOut = filenameIn
   with open(filenameOut, "w") as f:
      f.write(";Wood temperature graph:\n")
      for n in xrange(15, 0, -1):
         str = ";%3i | " % (minTemp + (maxTemp - minTemp) * n / 15)
         for t in temps:
            if (t - minTemp) / (maxTemp - minTemp) * 15 >= (n - 0.5):
               str += "#"
            else:
               str += " "
         f.write(str + "\n")
      for line in lines:
         if getValue(line, 'G', None) == 1:
            newZ = getValue(line, 'Z', z)
            if newZ != z:
               z = newZ
               
               f.write("M104 S%i\n" % (temps[idx]))
               idx += 1
         f.write(line)

if __name__ == "__main__":
   main(sys.argv[1:])
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Re: wooden filament

Postby EvaMMF » 2014-Jan-Wed-07-Jan

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http://www.myminifactory.com/ - 3D Printable File Sharing Platform
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