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Printrbot Talk Forum • View topic - Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Discussions about the forum. How to expand and enhance it.

Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby ellweber » 2012-Jul-Mon-22-Jul

This forum has been up and running since mid-December of 2011. Brett/Plexus has put a lot of effort into setting it up and maintaining it and I have no idea what his out-of-pocket expense may have been. More than 500 of us have been reading, contributing and benefiting from its abundant information and the diverse, experienced and helpful membership. Not to mention the lurkers and the associated Wiki...

So, now Brook has decided to set up a parallel universe that he can control and maintain (and tie into his online store). I have looked at it briefly and I do not see any significant advantages over what we have here. I do like the way it encourages mixing graphics/photos with text but otherwise it will be a long time before it has any hope of offering much benefit to me.

So far, Brook has not shown me that he has the management skills or commitment to maintenance and communications that are needed for any of this. In fact, I didn't see a link to his community site from his existing printrbot.com site!

Take a look for yourself and see what you think: http://printrbot.dozuki.com/Guide

I plan to continue to support and visit here. Fragmentation of information really sucks! The mess we have for printrbot documentation demonstrates that clearly. Thank you Brett, for your contribution to this community.
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Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby plexus » 2012-Jul-Mon-23-Jul

I don't feel this is an us or them scenario. This is and us and them scenario. An official and an unofficial forum are more useful together than separately. They compliment each other. We will likely find the official forum is uses for certain things the unofficial forum is not, and v.v. And lets say the universe goes over to the Brookside, it doesn't affect the already amazingly valuable cache of information so far compiled on this forum by merely the good will of YOU a fellow Printrbot/3D printer enthusiasts. :)
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby k1nc81d » 2012-Jul-Mon-23-Jul

Wonder if there is a way to port all of this information over to the Brookside so Brett doesn't have to continue incurring the expense of maintaining this board.
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby plexus » 2012-Jul-Mon-23-Jul

Honestly, I do not incur any costs for this. Its free.
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby ellweber » 2012-Jul-Mon-23-Jul

I did not mean to suggest it is us vs. them.

What I did say is: thank you Brett for your contribution.

And, that I have little hope that Brook's stuff will meet my own personal needs based on performance to date.

And, most importantly, FRAGMENTATION OF INFORMATION SUCKS.
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby k1nc81d » 2012-Jul-Tue-01-Jul

We had that already. This forum is a fun place for discussion but it is a lousy place to store information. That is why the Wiki page was set up, however under utilized. Working with the Dozuki web site, it looks to combine the wiki aspects with the discussion aspects of each site. If it gets backing from the users of Printrbottalk it could be awesome. So far it doesn't look to be getting much backing. I've been trying to help users on both sites but it is a pain. I find my self wondering if I should just copy and past answers between sites :0 Or just leave it be.
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby CL1 » 2012-Jul-Tue-07-Jul

Brook's announcement of a competing and self-controlled Forum in Update 27 didn't surprise me, but it did once again show why this separate community of Printrbottalk is essential to the longterm success of these products.

For now I am staying here. I agree with ellweber's assessment and have personally seen numerous times how easily Brook walks away once he has gotten what he wants. So I can see that happening at the Dozuki site too. Here at PrintrBottalk we have a dedicated and non-profit driven community which will endure regardless of current PB owner whims.

There are things about the Dozuki interface which I like but i already spend enough time answering here. I am not going to go over and essentially endorse Brook's separation and fragmentation of the community by duplicating content.

@k1nc81d:
EDIT: reduced size of quoted name because the large type is to draw attention to the concept, not the individual! Also added words above in <> due to misunderstanding of my intent without these clarifying words. Sorry for any misunderstanding. /edit

@all Please do not cut and paste any content I have written here to that site. Use A link to printrbottalk instead.

Before you go over there and add content, think about where you would be if this printrbottalk site hadn't existed til update 27. Have a look at this Ask Brook thread where he promises to come here and answer questions. viewtopic.php?f=75&t=309
Re-read the comments on Kickstarter, knowing that all the while printrbottalk was providing answers Brook would not.

printrbottalk.com IS THE PrintrBot community. Let Dozuki be the docs place Brook wants. As Plexus writes, there is a place for both. The PrintrBot community is already here!

CL1
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Last edited by CL1 on 2012-Jul-Tue-18-Jul, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby k1nc81d » 2012-Jul-Tue-09-Jul

I have only reposted my own content. Content from others, I have only done once as a link to the thread where the content can be found.

You should check you sources before you accuse less you start a flame war.
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Last edited by k1nc81d on 2012-Jul-Tue-09-Jul, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby Dick Brewster » 2012-Jul-Tue-09-Jul

CL1, Well said. If Brook carries through and his site becomes a thorough, accurate instruction site for Printrbot assembly and problem solving, that would be great; however, based on past performance I'm not going to hold my breath.

I think this will always remain the site where a more open discussion of problems and unofficial solutions to the problems will be more freely discussed.
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby CL1 » 2012-Jul-Tue-11-Jul

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby Mooselake » 2012-Jul-Tue-12-Jul

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby k1nc81d » 2012-Jul-Tue-15-Jul

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby ellweber » 2012-Jul-Tue-17-Jul

Yet again Brook has had an idea (in this case a not-very-good idea, from my perspective) and been totally ineffective in promoting it, making it accessible or any other form of follow-through. Another dropped ball.

The Dozuki site has been mentioned in one of his videos but there is no link (that I can find) to it on his main site, he has not come here to promote it and it seems little visited. The Dozuki printrbot site does not show up in the first four pages of a Google search for "printrbot documentation," this site is on the first page. You would think that someone with a web design business would address that early on if they were serious about such a site.

It is quite clear where the "center of gravity" for printrbot backers is located, right here. I expect that the Dozuki site will take a long time to become particularly useful, if ever.

I think this subject has run its course in a day's time. The market and the user community will ultimately determine where we all go to get help and to provide support. I may add Fragmented Documentation Sucks to my signature and be done with this frustration!!!
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby CL1 » 2012-Jul-Tue-18-Jul

Edited my post above to aid clarity. Sorry for any misunderstanding!

CL1
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby drawcut » 2012-Jul-Tue-18-Jul

I must admit, I thought the same thing about fragmentation when I saw the other site. But I think it's really inevitable - human nature if you will. You can't make everyone happy all of the time on a single site. And heck: the more the merrier.

And the other site does have some interesting things going for it. The Wiki / discussion combination. The reputation points thing (although I don't care for that myself - Too easily gamed and I prefer to judge by the merits of the posts vs some number.)

That said, I'll stick with this place. While forums have their draw backs, I prefer them over Wikis since they are far more current in content and old info is found by digging through the search function. The Wiki here is fine but suffers from the same problem I've seen in most Wiki's - just not up to date, harder to contribute to and does not really offer the variety of opinions that a forum does. JMO.

@k1nc81d: I wouldn't take offence from CL1's comment. Honestly, what you wrote was a little ambiguous at first. Going back now I see that you meant only copying your own posts, but on first reading, I didn't see that. No harm, no foul.
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby hqmhqm » 2012-Jul-Tue-19-Jul

I think that while Printrbot Inc has been doing a great job, they are a little tone deaf when it comes to leveraging the contributions of the community. The documentation and debugging info actually published by Printrbot is what I would say less than sufficient for doing a build and more importantly for debugging the build.

I think what people at printrbottalk have done is maybe the best solution under the circumstances, which is to just go ahead with sharing info that we have, and not depending on Printrbot for any information. It's not the optimal situation, and I am a little worried that Printrbot is holding themselves back by being unable to supply enough "self-help" materials for their customers.

So I don't think this is a bad situation, just that it could be better, if there are design improvements or documentation resources that could be easier to find and keep up to date, with the help of the Printrbot manufacturer.
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby CL1 » 2012-Jul-Tue-19-Jul

@drawcut: What's funny to me is that I never thought he meant copying anything BUT his own posts. I enlarged the reply in an edit just after I pressed submit when I thought it might be worthwhile to use my post to try to point everyone towards linking to here from there! So easy to be misunderstood in print.

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby drawcut » 2012-Jul-Tue-19-Jul

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby k1nc81d » 2012-Jul-Tue-22-Jul

I is easy to be misunderstood in print. Nothing for it. :-/ As I tell my wife, if what I said could be taken two ways... I meant the good one. :)

I think the Dozuki site is better set up to handle guides, but it cannot compete with the banter available on this site. Not even close.

I hope nothing changes on this site, but I think it would be good if the major contributors of this site set aside some time to set write guides to answer the common questions that popup. Then when they pop up they can easily be directed. The wealth of knowledge that can be found on these pages is so easily lost in the black hole of BBS.
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby plexus » 2012-Jul-Tue-22-Jul

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby Mooselake » 2012-Jul-Wed-15-Jul

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby plexus » 2012-Jul-Wed-15-Jul

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby ellweber » 2012-Jul-Wed-15-Jul

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby plexus » 2012-Jul-Wed-15-Jul

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby ellweber » 2012-Jul-Wed-15-Jul

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby badger » 2012-Jul-Fri-10-Jul

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most probably PB+ backer number 230
http://www.jezevcinora.cz/gallery/?g=gallery/tisk_3D
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby plexus » 2012-Jul-Fri-11-Jul

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby knobunc » 2012-Jul-Fri-14-Jul

I've been cleaning up things and trying to organize topics, but mostly in the PB+ area.

I've wanted to be able to add some stuff to the home page to cover generic topics (e.g. upgrades to all bots, etc.).

I'd gladly to help, but I don't have the time to do it alone, and it looks like you are looking for a single curator. I'd also love to be able to have the perms to delete the spam users and spam posts that are on there just to help with the Sisyphean task of keeping out the crud.

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby badger » 2012-Jul-Fri-15-Jul

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most probably PB+ backer number 230
http://www.jezevcinora.cz/gallery/?g=gallery/tisk_3D
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby scantrontb » 2012-Jul-Fri-21-Jul

@Knobunc, Badger, i know it doesn't seem like you can do it BY YOURSELF... and i think i can say this without stepping on Plexus's toes, but it doesn't NEED to BE a "one-person-show", just like it was too much for Plexus to take care of this forum by himself... 3 more of us stepped up to take a share of the load. i'm pretty sure that BOTH of you could do it, TOGETHER, and if a few more want to help out as well, I'll bet that Plexus will say "so be it..."
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby plexus » 2012-Jul-Fri-21-Jul

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby eddiema » 2012-Jul-Sat-05-Jul

I don't want yet another forum or what ever.
I thought this forum was set up without enough consultation with Brook and the kickstarter community but it has turned out pretty well.
I had hoped Brook would have set something up at the start or at least had some vision of where this was going but in hind sight it was probably better to have a neutral forum.

Printrbot was sold as "your first 3d printer" and I expect many of us will move on to build different printers and such including DLP, SLS and CNC.
It would be good if the road map included this instead of disbanding. I'd guess that is more likely here than a PB controlled site.
What happens if someone else sells PB clones - which they legally can (maybe with a name change).
I think they'd be welcomed here - maybe not so welcomed else where?
I could be wrong - for example thingy verse is run by makerbot but it doesn't seem to be a problem.

Time will tell if PBHQ lift their game when things slow down. I defended PB in the past and still think few people could have pulled it all together.
But I'm not impressed by some of the things that have happened even if I keep it to myself - we will see.

With all the time I've spent here and doing printer stuff my web-site has been totally neglected and that is where I will be spending more time when I find some.
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby CL1 » 2012-Jul-Sat-12-Jul

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby plexus » 2012-Jul-Sat-12-Jul

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Interaction between Slic3r and Pronterface

Postby k1nc81d » 2012-Aug-Thu-15-Aug

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Re: Interaction between Slic3r and Pronterface

Postby mdfast1 » 2012-Aug-Thu-19-Aug

As long as you don't have an aversion to it then it's all good. I think im on the opposite side of the fence on that issue, but to each their own, the internet was made for dissemination of information I do agree that this is the place to be for printrbot and any attempt to circumvent it and not incorporate it into the official business plan is pretty disrespectful to this community.

Thanks for the help regardless.
/rant
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Re: Interaction between Slic3r and Pronterface

Postby k1nc81d » 2012-Aug-Fri-05-Aug

I don't think that printrbot.dozuki.com is disrespectful to the community. Not sure if that is what you ment though. Or are you stating that posting information in any other place other than here is disrespectful? Confused...
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Re: Interaction between Slic3r and Pronterface

Postby mdfast1 » 2012-Aug-Fri-13-Aug

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Printrbot Simple Metal - RED -
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby Dick Brewster » 2012-Aug-Fri-15-Aug

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Backer #30 Lincoln California, Home of the Printrbot
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby ellweber » 2012-Aug-Fri-16-Aug

What is disrespectful to this site is to, for all intents and purposes, completely ignore it for the entire time since he started the Kickstrter campaign.

He has posted here a grand total of three times even though he committed (oh, there's that dirty word again) to some presence with; " I thought I would try to stop by regularly and answer any hot topics that need attention."

In the meantime this site and its diverse and well intentioned participants have supported Brook, defended Brook, provided the documentation and technical support that Brook has neglected and, most valuable, made his business aspirations far more likely to succeed.

I can only speak for myself but I think he has been unwise, short-sighted and insulting too. Empty promises are no real substitute for respect, competence and responsibility.
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby k1nc81d » 2012-Aug-Fri-22-Aug

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby David@Printrbot » 2014-Jan-Thu-14-Jan

Just found this thread so I figured I would chime in.

For increased clarity and laser focus, we recently started investing in our Q&A section on help.printrbot.com We have always had this from the beginning, but no incentive to develop it. However, the printrbottalk forum has grown large enough now that it lacks a needed focus to meet our specific support goals. Open source often goes that way.

Our Q&A section is heavily vetted and pruned for clarity. It does one thing: answers the hottest questions for the current gear for sale and the current MO of Printrbot. It is certainly nothing personal that there appears to be two forums. Frankly, there are. And with two different objectives. Naturally, we are pointing new customers to the official one, chiefly. However, we here at Printrbot are very grateful for all the folks at printrbottalk.com and are thankful for having both forums!
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby plexus » 2014-Jan-Thu-14-Jan

There is no fragmentation. This is the internet. The whole point is to have multiple sources of content. People will gravitate to the sources they find most useful and usable to them. Choice.
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby Bob-StPaul » 2014-Jan-Thu-22-Jan

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby David@Printrbot » 2014-Jan-Fri-17-Jan

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby plexus » 2014-Jan-Fri-17-Jan

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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby DonaldJ » 2014-Jan-Sat-00-Jan

I think it's more of stratification than fragmentation.

Just for kicks, go check out Brook's original Kickstarter video pitch, and the original (printed) Printrbot. Now look at the Simple. Quite a bit of deveolpment in two years, no? And the Simples are selling like crazy, vastly outnumbering the Jr. and Plus.

I've looked at the PBHQ Help forum and it looks like most of the questions are from folks that have the pre-assembled printers, and that is the best forum for those users.

This forum seems more well suited for the kit builders and serious hacker/tinker community. There are some beautifully crazy mods out there, and a lot of great information for the extreme builder. Everybody's happy.

BTW, I would love to see an official PBHQ kit of the hardware/electronics for the printer in the original video. I'd like to print my own, just because...
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Re: Fragmentation of the printrbot comunity

Postby David@Printrbot » 2014-Jan-Sat-14-Jan

@plexus - Customers can certainly contact me directly via PM or email if they have a question, etc. However, now that we have two dedicated staff that actively monitor our help.printrbot.com site on a daily basis I am directing folks to post up their technical questions over there. Those guys are a better resource than myself and they have direct contact with the team in the shop and can get new parts shipped out when needed.
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