[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 483: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/bbcode.php on line 112: preg_replace(): The /e modifier is no longer supported, use preg_replace_callback instead
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4693: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4695: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4696: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/includes/functions.php on line 4697: Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at [ROOT]/includes/functions.php:3823)
Printrbot Talk Forum • View topic - Thingiverse boycott?

Thingiverse boycott?

Discuss and document interesting online resources like projects, blogs, articles, data sheets, product info, shops, etc. an online repository of Printrbot related of interest info

Thingiverse boycott?

Postby jakrabit » 2014-Jun-Mon-10-Jun

So, i'm seeing more and more boycotts on thingiverse.

i've got a couple designs that i've created (nothing special, nothing fancy... just home hacks).

should i consider not publishing on thingiverse? anyone have an alternative they recommend?
  • 0

jakrabit
Levelling print bed...
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 2014-Feb-Fri-20-Feb
Reputation: 2

Thingiverse boycott?

Sponsor

Sponsor
 

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jun-Mon-10-Jun

I don't think there's a consensus for a good alternative yet. I haven't added anything new to Thingiverse and I'm pretty sure I'm not going to any more. Makerbot has gone completely to the dark side.
  • 0

User avatar
evanalmighty
Layer 650 of 1234
 
Posts: 689
Joined: 2014-Feb-Mon-15-Feb
Location: Irvine, CA
Reputation: 45

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby plexus » 2014-Jun-Mon-10-Jun

  • 0

User avatar
plexus
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2117
Joined: 2011-Dec-Mon-16-Dec
Location: Toronto, Canada
Reputation: 95

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby jakrabit » 2014-Jun-Mon-11-Jun

  • 0

jakrabit
Levelling print bed...
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 2014-Feb-Fri-20-Feb
Reputation: 2

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby ei8htohms » 2014-Jun-Mon-11-Jun

The issue is not nearly as black and white as most of the knee-jerk reactions might lead one to believe. Although some might find it slightly apologist, Cory Doctorow's article on the subject is definitely worth reading for some much needed additional perspective:

http://boingboing.net/2014/05/30/whats- ... e-mak.html

Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all pleased with MB's about face on the open source community and ideals and I still plan to migrate my designs off Thingiverse and onto ShapeDo, YouMagine or Repables, but one must read the actual patent docs and consider the valid points made on both sides of the argument before voicing too much criticism. In my humble opinion MB's greatest mistake had been the mismanagement of community relations ever since they moved away from open source and this problem doesn't seem to be going away.
  • 1

Printrbot GO v.1 - steampunk
Auto bed compensation via endstop wired bed mounts
Thrust bearings and Oldham couplers for the
8mm Igus trapezoidal leadscrews w/
Igus DryLin nuts
PB LCD/encoder
GT2 belts
X and Y motors upgraded to Kysans
Twin 30mm fans

User avatar
ei8htohms
ACME leadscrew
 
Posts: 364
Joined: 2013-Jan-Sat-18-Jan
Location: NYC
Reputation: 23

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby jakrabit » 2014-Jun-Mon-11-Jun

  • 0

jakrabit
Levelling print bed...
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 2014-Feb-Fri-20-Feb
Reputation: 2

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jun-Mon-12-Jun

  • 0

You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
User avatar
evanalmighty
Layer 650 of 1234
 
Posts: 689
Joined: 2014-Feb-Mon-15-Feb
Location: Irvine, CA
Reputation: 45

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jun-Mon-12-Jun

  • 0

User avatar
evanalmighty
Layer 650 of 1234
 
Posts: 689
Joined: 2014-Feb-Mon-15-Feb
Location: Irvine, CA
Reputation: 45

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby jakrabit » 2014-Jun-Mon-12-Jun

ok, well written, i'll agree with Evan...

however. Here's my $.02 (which is worth considerably less than face value)

There's right in the eyes of the law, and then there's this.

So, MB filed a broad patent (which includes variations on original designs from community members), which hamstrings many in the community, especially if it's their design.

CSB TIME (sorry if TLDR)
Years back, i worked for 3M (here in MN), and even signed an agreement that anything i invent while working for 3M essentially becomes their invention. I understood and gladly signed the paper. i knew what i was getting into.

I worked in the traffic safety services division (translation: i went into prisons and installed the license plate and tab printing systems). There was a long standing issue with the registration tab printed pages... the toner used for these was a special 3M formula, and the toner cartridges printed at a higher temp. This, in turn, would heat up the registration tab stickers and cause them to stick to the page they were stacked on. what they needed was for the single sheet to cool just enough to eliminate the "sticky" sticker.

One solution was for the inmate to take a freshly printed stack and place them in a freezer for 10 minutes - not very efficient, and there was still unrecoverable sheets.

I used a small fan, and a designed a frame on top of the printer (that allowed air to pass through, but kept the sheet from blowing away). I showed my manager to ensure we could use this idea in the prison. Essentially, in the .5 seconds between a new sheet feeding out to the out tray, the fan and plate would keep the sheet hovering above the stack, and the airflow would cool the sticker enough so that when the next sheet fed through, it would push the prior sheet down and it would hover for that .5 second - sounds like something anybody here would have figured out, right? apparently, this "logical" solution was novel enough that 3M patented it...

2 weeks later i've got some lawyer sitting with me getting the specifics of what i had done. ALL i did was use an existing fan and make a sheet metal plate that went over the top of the printer, i didn't think i'd done anything special.

apparently, 3M thought differently, and filed a patent on it. Now, i have my name attached to the patent (i have no idea how that works). I'm sure i'll never see that particular setup ANYWHERE else in the world... but, this big company saw something worth protecting in what i found as trivial. so, somewhere on the 3M campus is a plaque of the patent, and my name is on it... which i think is pretty cool. I also understand that due to the agreement i signed, it belongs to 3M.

what i later learned was; before that solution, any registration sheets that were ruined were written off by 3M and reimbursed to the client. pennies per sheet, but considering how many are printed on a daily basis, and the savings to 3M, it adds up. and STILL, that agreement i signed means that it belongs to 3M... AGAIN, fine with me.

So, translate that to the patent that MB filed. they're taking ideas and solutions that the community came up with and calling it theirs. Essentially thumbing their nose at the community that contributed to making MB what it is... WITHOUT any compensation to the community.

That's the mistake trivializing that patent does.

I think the boycott is justified.
  • 0

jakrabit
Levelling print bed...
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 2014-Feb-Fri-20-Feb
Reputation: 2

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby jakrabit » 2014-Jun-Mon-13-Jun

here's another bit of info i found as well:

http://www.openbeamusa.com/blog/2014/5/ ... y-makerbot
  • 0

jakrabit
Levelling print bed...
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 2014-Feb-Fri-20-Feb
Reputation: 2

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby plexus » 2014-Jun-Mon-14-Jun

So tell me if I understand this. it sounds like someone posted an extruder design to thingiverse. MB filed an intent to patent or even a full blown patent on an extruder that isn't exactly like the one posted but some think its close enough. so it seems like MB might be taking ideas from thingiverse for things to patent. maybe. but the allegation is that they did in this instance. so its not like MB is patenting everything on thingiverse. they might be looking for ideas on thingiverse to patent, but maybe not. maybe this extruder was just a fluke that there were similarities? possible?

but isn't the law on the side of the person who can prove they invented something someone else stole the design from and patented? if you upload something to thingiverse its dates stamped. if anyone patents it later, you can prove you designed it first, no?

what am i missing?
  • 0

User avatar
plexus
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2117
Joined: 2011-Dec-Mon-16-Dec
Location: Toronto, Canada
Reputation: 95

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jun-Mon-14-Jun

The issue with this particular patent is that Makerbot themselves wrote an article last year acknowledging and praising the designer (contributor) for his work on the extruder and how it will help advance the 3D printing industry, etc. etc. In fact, they thought so highly of his design that they have decided to incorporate it into their own extruder. Here's a link to that particular blog: http://www.makerbot.com/blog/2013/02/22 ... your-step/

..... and now they've filed a patent on it. What makerbot is doing is trying to take advantage of the first to file vs. first to invent rule.
  • 0

User avatar
evanalmighty
Layer 650 of 1234
 
Posts: 689
Joined: 2014-Feb-Mon-15-Feb
Location: Irvine, CA
Reputation: 45

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby plexus » 2014-Jun-Mon-14-Jun

  • 0

User avatar
plexus
Site Admin
 
Posts: 2117
Joined: 2011-Dec-Mon-16-Dec
Location: Toronto, Canada
Reputation: 95

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby marmil » 2014-Jun-Mon-15-Jun

From what I've gathered from the recent kerfuffle is that on March 16, 2013 patent law here in the US changed so it's now the First to File (FTF) that gets the patent, and not necessarily the First to Invent (FTI), with an exception perhaps of some grace period for the FTI to file for their own patent, or to appeal a FTF application it seems.

The first few paragraphs of these pages gave me the basics.
https://gigaom.com/2013/03/18/first-to- ... n-english/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_to_f ... _to_invent

Basically, companies that patent stuff are going to try to be the FTF under the new/current US patent law. Kerfuffle.
  • 0

+ [color=#BF0000]•
User avatar
marmil
Honeycomb infill 25%...
 
Posts: 284
Joined: 2011-Dec-Sat-14-Dec
Location: Glendale, California
Reputation: 6

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby jakrabit » 2014-Jun-Mon-15-Jun

  • 0

jakrabit
Levelling print bed...
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 2014-Feb-Fri-20-Feb
Reputation: 2

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby Sagbot » 2014-Jun-Mon-15-Jun

I went and read the patent, it's number 61719874. It was first filed on Oct 2012 and updated a year later.

The patent makes two claims that are very similar but it's claiming a direct drive extruder with a bearing and a spring, and they're also claiming the manual release lever.

But, the blog post that Evan gave refers to an earlier direct drive extruder with spring, bearing, and manual release. And its date is Jan 2012:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:15718

This appears to be a clear case of prior art, and now I'll have to go and read what Marmil posted.
  • 0

-Mike
Printrbot Metal Simple, Meanwell power supply, polycarbonate sheet.
Sagbot
I'm an end stop.
 
Posts: 55
Joined: 2014-Apr-Thu-00-Apr
Reputation: 3

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby jakrabit » 2014-Jun-Mon-15-Jun

didn't mean to open a can of worms here on PBT... Figured y'all were already in the know on this.

thanks for the additional references and information.
  • 0

jakrabit
Levelling print bed...
 
Posts: 39
Joined: 2014-Feb-Fri-20-Feb
Reputation: 2

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby ei8htohms » 2014-Jun-Mon-15-Jun

The key to the MB patent is a bi-stable lever. Clicks open, clicks closed. There is apparently a Thingiverse extruder prior to theirs with that feature, but implemented differently and NOT the two popular designs everyone is referring to that are listed as prior art in the MB patent.
  • 0

Printrbot GO v.1 - steampunk
Auto bed compensation via endstop wired bed mounts
Thrust bearings and Oldham couplers for the
8mm Igus trapezoidal leadscrews w/
Igus DryLin nuts
PB LCD/encoder
GT2 belts
X and Y motors upgraded to Kysans
Twin 30mm fans

User avatar
ei8htohms
ACME leadscrew
 
Posts: 364
Joined: 2013-Jan-Sat-18-Jan
Location: NYC
Reputation: 23

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby Sagbot » 2014-Jun-Mon-16-Jun

  • 0

-Mike
Printrbot Metal Simple, Meanwell power supply, polycarbonate sheet.
Sagbot
I'm an end stop.
 
Posts: 55
Joined: 2014-Apr-Thu-00-Apr
Reputation: 3

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby Sagbot » 2014-Jun-Mon-16-Jun

  • 0

-Mike
Printrbot Metal Simple, Meanwell power supply, polycarbonate sheet.
Sagbot
I'm an end stop.
 
Posts: 55
Joined: 2014-Apr-Thu-00-Apr
Reputation: 3

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby RetireeJay » 2014-Jun-Mon-16-Jun

I have not read any of the referenced material, but let me weigh in a little bit more on patents. I, like marmil, worked for a company that files lots of patents, and I willingly signed away my rights to any patentable invention that I made that was even remotely related to either the general line of products made by the company or the specific assignments that I was given. It's because my process of invention was called "work for hire." After 26 years, I accumulated 6 or 7 actual issued patents with my name on them - belonging to my company. Along the way I learned something about the patent-issuing process. Patent examiners seem to feel that it's their duty in life to deny patents because there is prior art. Mainly they reference other patents, but not always. To get patented, an invention has to be "novel" and "useful." "Novel" means that nothing like this has been seen before.

Now the US has aligned its patent process with the rest of the world: First to File gets the patent. BUT... if there is demonstrably prior art that's identical, then the patent application can and should be denied because it's not novel. What this means is that if the invention has been written up in a public forum, if it's been used in public venues, then it isn't (or shouldn't) be patentable. You could scour the patent system to see if the use of copper wires to carry electricity has ever been patented. If not, then you might think you could patent that. But you can't because it's public knowledge.

So if you are developing something you plan to patent, keep it under your hat until you file. If someone else files a patent application for something you have described in a public forum, then I think you have a right to send a message to the patent examiner saying that this thing is already public knowledge. However, I don't know the mechanism for doing so; you might need to work through a Patent Attorney who knows the right channels to present your argument.
  • 0

Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3, upgraded to MK3S
User avatar
RetireeJay
My next printer is...
 
Posts: 5014
Joined: 2013-Jan-Wed-13-Jan
Location: Greenville, SC
Reputation: 498

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby Munson » 2014-Jun-Mon-17-Jun

Edison and Marconi stole ideas Nikola tesla and made fortunes.My question is If someone puts a mod up in this forum and never places it in thingiverse is it protected?
  • 0

Munson
Honeycomb infill 25%...
 
Posts: 291
Joined: 2014-Feb-Wed-12-Feb
Reputation: 5

Re: Thingiverse boycott?

Postby REPRAP SQUAD » 2014-Jun-Mon-23-Jun

I dont know if this still works or not but back when I used to be a music producer we were advised by a lawyer to put our music on a cd with time and date stamp. After that we mailed them essentially to ourselves and kept them sealed unless we needed to prove rights in court. The post office then stamps them and records info. It was quite a while back but, it was a poor mans copyright. Little things like this can help to prove the date in which the product was produced.
  • 0

Twitter: @REPRAPSQUAD
Check it out: Build logs, 3D printer news and all things Printrbot--http://reprapsquad.wordpress.com
PC Case Mods 3D printed:


RepRap Squad's The 1st Simple (XL)
* Custom built that towers over the LC

Printrbot Plus V2 W/
*Dual extruder PB Version (2-Ubis 1.75mm hotends)
*Heavily Modded and all axis extended
User avatar
REPRAP SQUAD
Metal hotbed butt
 
Posts: 1629
Joined: 2013-Feb-Sun-11-Feb
Location: Pacific NW Oregon-US
Reputation: 71


Return to Online resources

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest