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Printrbot Talk Forum • View topic - Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Problems with your print or projects? talk here

Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby Radioman1017 » 2016-Feb-Mon-14-Feb

]Morning all,

My Printrbot Simple Metal is suddenly showing a lot of deviation in layers as it progresses upward. I used to get pretty smooth horizontal faces, but now I'm getting very obvious lines.

I'm printing with PLA and have played with temps from 200 to 215. I'm running the same PLA on my Metal Plus at 200 and I'm getting beautiful prints.

My printer long ago stopped accepting M212 commands so I have to adjust my height manually. Could it be a motor issue? Maybe a lubrication problem?

Anyone have any thoughts?

Here's a couple of pics.



IMG_7946.JPG
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Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby frankv » 2016-Feb-Mon-14-Feb

Loose belts? Loose screws? Play in the Z axis?

Watch as it prints... are the perimeters of alternate layers printed in the opposite direction (e.g. Clockwise vs CCW)? If so, any play in the mechanism will result in different physical head positions for the same XYZ coordinates depending on the direction of travel.
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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby Radioman1017 » 2016-Feb-Mon-15-Feb

I just checked all my belts, tightened all of the screws and don't see any play in the Z-axis. (Not sure how to check that though. It's tight, the UBIS end is tight and all the way to the top of the bracket.)

I also lubed the entire printer.

To your point about direction, I'm doing the same print again and each successive layer is printing CCW. Still printing really horrible horizontal lines.

Mark
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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby cacb » 2016-Feb-Mon-16-Feb

Could it be related to this issue: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=10417&p=67281&hilit=clamp#p67231

I.e. the clamp under the bed holding the x bearings?
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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby Radioman1017 » 2016-Feb-Sat-16-Feb

So I took it apart, added washers on the left side of the clamp (mine only had washers on the right side like was mentioned by someone else) and put double-stick tape between the arched clamp arms and the bushings. Lubed everything since I had it apart, tightened the belt and reassembled. Still doing exactly the same thing. I'm printing a round piece and there are evenly spaced horizontal lines.

I moved to Cura and rep rap as the slicer to see if that made a difference. Nope.

Any other thoughts?

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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby mdfast1 » 2016-Feb-Sat-21-Feb

Loose hotend? Sometimes that wiggle could cause it, though I would expect it to be more constant.
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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby Radioman1017 » 2016-Feb-Sat-22-Feb

I checked the hotend. It's rock solid. Could it be an issue with the Z axis? Is there something causing it to not align correctly as it pulls up?

really perplexing. This was working fine just the other day.


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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby mdfast1 » 2016-Feb-Sun-00-Feb

Definitely some Z ribbing happening in a predictable frequency. Have you changed layer heights lately? Can you post a video of 100mm Z move upwards, maybe we can spot something with the threaded rod. Have you messed with your M92 Z?

Just throwing things out there. Can you feel any wobble in the linear rails when moving Z?
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.35mm nozzle
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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby Radioman1017 » 2016-Mar-Sun-23-Mar

The linear rails feel secure. No wobble at all. Changing the layer heights lessens the horizontal distance between the ribbing, but does nothing to prevent.

Here's a video of me homing my Z-axis from a height of about 60. It looks pretty wobbly. https://youtu.be/iffLcVC3iew

I've seen a lot of other article refer to this as z-wobble as well.

Here's an interesting article that seems to be describing my issue. https://www.evernote.com/shard/s211/sh/ ... dcdd2d687e]

A couple of them suggested that their Z coupler went bad after a year and needed to be replaced. My printrbot is 14 months old. Is this possible? It's only a $6 part from the Printrbot store.

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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Mar-Mon-08-Mar

That Evernote article is pretty good. It tells you that the wobble you see at the top of your Z screw is of absolutely no concern, because the Z axis motion is constrained by the smooth rods to move straight up and down. Something in the article that I never thought of before is the resistance of the filament coming off the spool causing the cantilevered arm on a Simple to tilt up irregularly as the extruder pulls filament.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
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E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby cacb » 2016-Mar-Mon-09-Mar

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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Mar-Mon-09-Mar

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You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3, upgraded to MK3S
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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby Radioman1017 » 2016-Mar-Sun-16-Mar

I wanted to update this thread on this issue. I spoke with Mike at Printrbot and he suggested it could be related to my Z-coupler. The three parts, threaded rod, coupler, and spacer were only $20 so I went ahead and ordered all three. My apologies, but I forgot to photograph the procedure. Needless to say, the enter topside of the printer had to be disassembled to replace these parts. The new couple was smaller and the screw on the new couple is so small it took my smallest allen wrench to tighten. Even then, the flat side of the motor post is so hard to see I had to do this twice to get it right.

Anyway, once I reassembled (the second time) I made this test print.

IMG_8053.JPG

There are still lines on the print but it's better. When it was all apart, I took the opportunity to inspect the cables and such. I did notice one interesting thing. The cable for the X axis was wire tied in such a way that the "knot" blocked the X arm from hitting the end stop switch directly. This was factory constructed. I don't normally print that close to the edge but it was still interesting.

Anyway, I fear my Simple Metal is beginning to show some age. The motor on my extruder is suffering from stripping on the screw holes from the number of times I've had to take those out. Plus, it STILL won't accept new M212 / M500 commands so I have to set my Z height by hand. The Flashforge Creator Pro is starting to look interesting to me.

Mark
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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby thawkins » 2016-Mar-Mon-05-Mar

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Jonbot+
225mm x 200mm - Heated Bed
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-------------------------------
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Dual heated beds.
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-------------------------------
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Dual Extruder
220x143x150mm
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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby Radioman1017 » 2016-Apr-Fri-21-Apr

Thanks thawkins!

I just purchased the Flashforge Creator Pro. Should have tomorrow. It'll sit next to my Printrbots. :)

Can you point me to a good community?

Mark
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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby thawkins » 2016-Apr-Sat-14-Apr

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Jonbot+
225mm x 200mm - Heated Bed
RAMPS 1.4 running Marlin 1.1.0
Full Graphic display.
-------------------------------
Zen Toolworks CNC/3d printer
230mmx360mm bed
Dual j-head hotends.
Dual heated beds.
RAMPS 1.4 running Marlin 0.98
-------------------------------
Flashforge 3d Creator Pro
Dual Extruder
220x143x150mm
Mightyboard rev e, runnimg Sailfish 7.7r1234
-------------------------------
Photon, self designed printed printer.
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thawkins
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Re: Horizontal Lines Suddenly Appearing

Postby ktfergus » 2016-Apr-Sun-21-Apr

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