Jerrill's 0.2mm nozzle (was Good print. Can be better)

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Jerrill's 0.2mm nozzle (was Good print. Can be better)

Postby Jerrill » 2013-Feb-Thu-02-Feb

I'm experimenting with a 0.20mm nozzle and the results are stunning. I'm tuning my slic3r configuration on some calibration prints and thought I would solicit the advice of the forum to see if it was helpful in reducing the number of print iterations.

I'm currently printing the "wicked-small cylinder test" thing found on Thingiverse

I posted my slic3r config on pastebin (search for paste #HgaFF1kX).

(Sorry for the lack of links... I kept getting "Your post looks too spamy for a new user, please remove off-site URLs." messages...)

I notice the following:

  • some stringing / over-extrusion on the narrowest cylinders
  • the corners of the grid pattern are severely rounded

What are your recommendations on making this good print great? Thank you in advance!

Here is my print along with the gcode view for reference of the tool paths.

pegtest4.JPG

pegtest4-gcode-view.png
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Jerrill's 0.2mm nozzle (was Good print. Can be better)

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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Thu-14-Feb

what are your mechanics? stock threaded rods, pulley's and belts? or...? upgraded axis parts will improve print quality.

what are your acceleration and jerk settings? its intuitive to think that slowing them down would increase print quality however in my testing having them faster actually produced better quality especially at corners. but for this cylinder print it might not be as important.
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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby Jerrill » 2013-Feb-Fri-01-Feb

plexus,

THANK YOU for the recommendation to print faster. I think I'm going to keep bumping up the speed to see if it gets even better, but increasing the speed has largely resolved the concerns I had about rounded corners in the grid pattern around the cylinders.

I also adjusted the extrusion width for perimeters so that the cylinder walls were closer to the 0.50mm in the model (walls two layers thick) rather than what I had before (walls one layer thick) though I think the single walled prints look cooler. Alas, it's all about fidelity to the source model.

I'll keep bumping up the speed bit by bit to see how far that gets me. I'm still trying to figure out the retraction settings to improve the thinnest posts.

I experimented with the acceleration settings a bit and only succeeded in trashing the prints presumably because of the nozzle heat, but I'm not sure. I imagine since my speed for the print below is 20mm/sec any acceleration (should be called deceleration) can only hurt at this point.

For comparison, I ran the print on a $35K Objet Alaris30 Pro I have access to at work in white, and side-by-side I'd say the Printrbot stacks up quite nicely. 31 minutes on the Objet. 40 minutes on the Printrbot and falling.

With regards to the modifications I have to the printer, here's the list:
  • y-axis and x-axis belt tensioners
  • y-axis stabilizer upgrade from Printrbot
  • glass with Kapton tape secured to heated bed with binder clips
  • dial indicator and mounts for easy calibration of x, y, and z
  • spring mounted heated bed leveler
  • y-axis belt positioner
  • aluminum ribbing (2 in the x direction and 1 in the y) to prevent the plywood print bed from warping under tension
  • filament guide
  • 40 mm fan with duct to focus air on the extruded filament
  • fourth linear bearing added to the x-axis carriage
  • 0.20mm nozzle made from a brass acorn nut
  • fixes discussed in this thread: http://www.printrbottalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1550

The following items are stock:
  • threaded rods
  • belts
  • pulleys

pegtest4-objet-compare-1-fixed.JPG
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Last edited by Jerrill on 2013-Feb-Fri-13-Feb, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Fri-02-Feb

Thats fantastic. and to see the Printrbot basically beat a really expensive printer... but i wonder how it would turn out using say shapeways. anyway good to see someone else trying to put the printrbot as far as possible. i'll have to try that cylinder print.
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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby Jerrill » 2013-Feb-Fri-13-Feb

I updated the post above with the hot end related upgrades/fixes I forgot when I posted it initially.

plexus, I think I'll order the part from Shapeways as well and post photos of the two side-by-side as well.

Jerrill
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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby Jerrill » 2013-Feb-Fri-19-Feb

plexus,

My Shapeways order will ship by March 6th. I ordered the print in their "White Strong & Flexible" material which is their selective laser sintered (SLS) plastic AND in their "White Detail" material which is their VeroWhite FULLCURE 830, and acrylic-based photopolymer, that they run on an Objet Eden 500. Their Objet has the same x and y resolution as the one we have at work, but twice the z resolution. So, was curious how well calibrated the printer was when it made the white print above. We'll see!

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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby Jerrill » 2013-Feb-Sat-02-Feb

For those interested in seeing the process used to create the 0.20 mm nozzle you can check it out here!

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:53316

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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby Jerrill » 2013-Feb-Thu-13-Feb

Just got email from Shapeways saying that they weren't going to try and print the test print in either material because of the small features. Printrbot for the win!

If someone from Shapeways happens by this forum, please try the prints and post photos of them anyway. We're not looking for perfection, but a visual comparison of the capabilities of the different processes.

Jerrill
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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby mdfast1 » 2013-Feb-Thu-17-Feb

Wow, I can't believe they wouldn't print your file. Shame on them, I guess they have their reputation to look out for and if they think it won't work then I guess they just won't try.
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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Thu-22-Feb

JERRILL! :D i got your nozzles today! oh my they are beautiful! i put one on and wow is the extrusion so thin, like a thick hair. and just in time because i switched to KISSlicer and have my printer all tuned up. the print quality is the best i've ever had it. so i put on your 0.2mm and am printing a tree frog at 100µm layers. the print looks like a high res photo lithography etch. the detail is crazy. i can't wait to post it and also do your test print next.

thanks so much. you should sell these! (mind you i am sure i'll be cursing when it clogs... lets see! so far so good)
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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby mdfast1 » 2013-Feb-Thu-23-Feb

Sounds great, the first thing that happened when I switched to my .35 nozzle was a clog. Post some pictures when you are done with the frog.
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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby plexus » 2013-Mar-Fri-00-Mar

mdfast1 wrote:Sounds great, the first thing that happened when I switched to my .35 nozzle was a clog. Post some pictures when you are done with the frog.


frog: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=2635&p=18232#p18232
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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby Jerrill » 2013-Mar-Fri-01-Mar

I'm glad you like the nozzles! I can't wait to see what you can make with them. Be sure to post plenty of pictures!

Maybe I will sell them if it seems like something enough people are interested in. I know the Thingiverse post on how to make them has been quite popular.

Jerrill
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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby mikemwa53 » 2013-Mar-Fri-02-Mar

I would be interested. Let me know when you make more.
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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby SolidVis » 2013-Mar-Fri-20-Mar

Jerrill wrote:I'm glad you like the nozzles! I can't wait to see what you can make with them. Be sure to post plenty of pictures!

Maybe I will sell them if it seems like something enough people are interested in. I know the Thingiverse post on how to make them has been quite popular.

Jerrill


Jerrill, a handy man like you can go even more lower. How it sounds 0.1mm to you?
http://www.printrbottalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=2066 ;)
The quality will be terrific.
Thanks to Plexus for the good photos!
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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby plexus » 2013-Mar-Fri-23-Mar

I am printing a 5mm high frog at 100µm layers with the Jarrill 02 (thats what i call it). its a great nozzle. works great. also the cavity inside isnt rounded out like the ones from PBHQ - this means there is less material swirling around in there - easier to switch filament and clean out.

There is an issue I am noticing with ABS - the surface of the print has a kind of sanded look, lighter colour, compared with using a wider nozzle. not sure what is causing this. perhaps temperature related? im printing at the same temps i usually use.
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Re: Good print. Can be better.

Postby Jerrill » 2013-Mar-Mon-00-Mar

Per everyone's request, the first batch of 10 nozzles is for sale on my website:

http://www.jerrill.com

I also posted some pictures of the manufacturing run on Thingiverse under my "Printrbot Nozzle Fabrication Toolbox" so you can see what you'll run into trying to make these things.

Production Information:

18 raw acorn nuts
3 failed because of removing too much material during shaping
3 failed during drilling because too much material was removed during shaping and the hole ripped open
2 failed during drilling because I missed the flat with the drill bit
10 0.20 mm Printrbot nozzles for sale (56% yield... ouch!)
1 sold already!

Time to order some more acorn nuts... AND SOME EVEN SMALLER DRILL BITS!

Enjoy!
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Re: Jerrill's 0.2mm nozzle (was Good print. Can be better)

Postby plexus » 2013-Mar-Tue-22-Mar

Ok I re-organized this thread. i hope this helps. i split off the last bunch of posts which were about printing small with Jerrill 0.2mm nozzle. i felt this was a good separate topic. so i spun that off as a sticky in this forum. i renamed Jerrill's original post to Jerrill's 0.2mm nozzle and referenced the small printing thread here. i moved all these threads from the troubleshooting thread to the Showcase thread (and left a mirror there).
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Re: Jerrill's 0.2mm nozzle (was Good print. Can be better)

Postby wd5gnr » 2013-Mar-Thu-08-Mar

When I finish with my leadscrew upgrade I will definitely be in for a 0.2 tip. Every time I think I'm done tinkering with the machine, something else comes up I want to change ;-)

As a ham radio operator, I always say I go through more solder than log books. In this world, I print more calibration pieces than useful pieces!
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Re: Jerrill's 0.2mm nozzle (was Good print. Can be better)

Postby Jerrill » 2013-Apr-Wed-21-Apr

Lessons learned from the nozzle making business.

http://www.jerrill.com/blog/2013/04/whats-in-a-nozzle/

Jerrill
http://www.jerrill.com
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