Anyone have a 3D scanner?

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Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby PxT » 2015-Aug-Fri-17-Aug

I have an item I would like to scan. It's small, a couple of inches cubed, so it would fit on any of the consumer level turntable type scanners. But it's not worth it for me to shell out $500 - $1000 to buy a scanner for this one item. Does anyone have a scanner who would be willing to run a couple of scans for a price? Or maybe we could trade for filament?

I googled around a bit but I couldn't find any consumer-level service out there for this. There are some industrial type outfits that want thousands of dollars that are out of my price range. :) Maybe a market niche that needs to be filled?
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Anyone have a 3D scanner?

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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby PxT » 2015-Aug-Fri-17-Aug

And yes, I am aware of the smart phone apps that purport to do this, but they generally produce poor results in my experience.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby marmil » 2015-Aug-Fri-19-Aug

Are you planning to ship the item to be scanned to the scanner location?

I have a friend in San Francisco that has built one. Or maybe two by now. I'll ask him about this and PM you.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby evanalmighty » 2015-Aug-Fri-22-Aug

I have one. It needs to be calibrated, but I think it should work. If you send me picture of the object(s) then I can tell you if I can scan it or not.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby PxT » 2015-Aug-Sat-09-Aug

marmil wrote:Are you planning to ship the item to be scanned to the scanner location?


Yes I would be willing to mail it and pay the return costs as well, of course.

evan, I'll take a couple of pictures and get in touch.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby Mooselake » 2015-Aug-Sat-15-Aug

There's a PC version of 1 2 3 Catch that may (should) work better than the cell phone versions. It'd only take a little time to try it and see if the results are acceptable.

Autodesk is still adding stuff, worth checking out occasionally.

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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby cacb » 2015-Aug-Sat-15-Aug

Mooselake wrote:There's a PC version of 1 2 3 Catch that may (should) work better than the cell phone versions. It'd only take a little time to try it and see if the results are acceptable.

Autodesk is still adding stuff, worth checking out occasionally.

Kirk


I have been playing with 123D Catch today, trying to make a 3d printed replica of a knights helmet

One of the raw photos used
http://arnholm.org/tmp/20150829/helmet.jpg

The following animation is made from the 3d model created
https://youtu.be/jeNySdK9uj0

However, I have not been able to create a printable STL of it yet.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby Mooselake » 2015-Aug-Sat-16-Aug

That looks pretty good in the video!

Have you tried running the stl through Netfabb? Some time ago I read that 123Catch isn't too good filling in areas it can't see in the photos.

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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby evanalmighty » 2015-Aug-Sat-16-Aug

Use meshlab to close up all the holes and run it through netfabb just for safe measures.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby cacb » 2015-Aug-Sat-16-Aug

I am kind of allergic to cloud based systems (I made an exception to try 123D Catch) and I am not sure I even have or want to have a "Microsoft account" that appears to be required for netfabb.

What I did was take a bunch of decent photos as shown, from many angles and ran them through 123D Catch. I got a model back where I cut away the background, table and newspaper reference. Then I had a helmet "shell" which wasn't solid. I exported it as .OBJ and converted that to .STL using "AnyCAD Exchange3d" http://www.anycad.net/the-free-3d-model ... nge3d.html. The result was still a shell.

I imported the STL into OpenSCAD to add a base to the helmet model, and close the hole at bottom at the same time.

Code: Select all
 union() {
    scale(2)
    rotate([-90,0,0])
    import("Helmet_take5.obj.stl");
    translate([0,5,10])
    cube([30,30,10],center=true);
  }


The result was

helmet_openscad.jpg
helmet_openscad.jpg (28.34 KiB) Viewed 1856 times


It shows the limited resolution I got, plus a funny mistake at the back of the helmet. When exported to another STL and imported into KISSlicer, I could see the helmet was basically inside-out:

helmet_kiss.jpg
helmet_kiss.jpg (99.09 KiB) Viewed 1856 times


The green lines indicate that the triangles are not topologically connected (duplicate vertices) and the red triangles indicate the face normals are pointing the wrong way.

Perhaps Netfabb can fix it, but I am not sure if I will be happy with the result anyway. Plus there is another family member complaining when I use our limited upload bandwidth :-)

All in all it looks like the model resolution is poor, and it looks more impressive when the texture is maintained as in the video.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby frankv » 2015-Aug-Sat-18-Aug

Do some Googling (as I did a few months ago, and have forgotten the details) for photogrammetry... there's some very good software (much better than 123D Catch) available for free. Whereas 123D Catch gives you a take-it-or-leave-it attempt at a scan, this other software allows you to see what it's doing, and to tune the conversion process. If someone cares enough to ask, I'll try to find it again. But hopefully someone cares enough to find it themselves and post the results here.

There is also the option of printing your own 3D scanner... I've printed and assembled the $30 Sardauscan available from Thingiverse. I haven't yet had anything usable out of it, but I think that's due to calibration and mechanical wobble errors.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby marmil » 2015-Aug-Sat-20-Aug

I've been trying out Autodesk's newer photogrammetry software Momento. I like it better then 123D Catch. If you've been using 123D, I'd encourage having a look at Momento also. For windows and Mac, and free.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby kareem613 » 2015-Aug-Sat-23-Aug

If you can get your hands on an old xbox kinect, you can use kscan3d. I tried it out to scan a large piggy bank. Results were great.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby cacb » 2015-Aug-Sun-02-Aug

marmil wrote:I've been trying out Autodesk's newer photogrammetry software Momento. I like it better then 123D Catch. If you've been using 123D, I'd encourage having a look at Momento also. For windows and Mac, and free.


That looks like a great tip. I will give it a try. It is a beta release, so perhaps the free ride is only temporary.

5 minutes later: I have installed it. Unfortunately this is also cloud based and runs on Windows & Mac only. I have a ton of local CPU resources, but my upload bandwidth is very limited. I would much prefer an open source solution allowing me to run it locally. However I am trying it as-is now.

@frankv: Perhaps it was Momento you tried? Yes I have thought about printing a 3d scanner... will try other options first.


Update an hour later: Memento is much, much better than 123D Catch. You can also fix and export directly to STL from within it. I am printing the helmet model from yesterdays photos now.

Also found an interesting tutorial on Visual SFM https://youtu.be/D6eqW6yk50k , might try that later.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby frankv » 2015-Aug-Sun-03-Aug

No, not Momento (although I did look at that too).

See http://wedidstuff.heavyimage.com/index. ... -workflow/ for a summary.

Visual SFM http://homes.cs.washington.edu/~ccwu/vsfm/ (why does my mind confuse that with BDSM?) was what I was trying to remember.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby cacb » 2015-Aug-Sun-03-Aug

frankv wrote:No, not Momento (although I did look at that too).

See http://wedidstuff.heavyimage.com/index. ... -workflow/ for a summary.

Visual SFM http://homes.cs.washington.edu/~ccwu/vsfm/ (why does my mind confuse that with BDSM?) was what I was trying to remember.


Yes, I found Visual SFM before I saw your reply. That looks really good. Fantastic workflow link!! I will complete the Memento route first.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby cacb » 2015-Aug-Sun-08-Aug

Ok, I can confirm that the memento route works much better, although not perfect. I was able to create a low resolution replica of the helmet (it has been in the family for probably 100+ years). The shape of the replica looks good, but many details are missing.

helmet_print1_compare.jpg
helmet_print1_compare.jpg (56.13 KiB) Viewed 1816 times


The process was based on 28 JPG images (2048 x 1536 pixels) taken with an ancient Coolpix 995 camera (anno ~2002). These were processed with Autodesk Memento, resulting in a promising textured model after a bit of cleanup (deleted background & closed holes). The model is full 3d and could then be exported straight to STL.

helmet_memento.jpg
helmet_memento.jpg (23.93 KiB) Viewed 1816 times


I added a base to the model in OpenSCAD:

Code: Select all
scale(5)
union() {
    translate([0,-1.7,-3.5])
    import("Helmet5-exported.stl");
    scale([0.95,0.85,1])
    cylinder(r1=7,r2=6,h=5,$fn=180); 
}


Once visualised in OpenSCAD without texturing, it is clear that the resolution isn't fantastic:

helmet_openscad_print.jpg
helmet_openscad_print.jpg (39.32 KiB) Viewed 1816 times


Model sliced with KISSSlicer and printed on my Simple metal (5 hours):

helmet_printed.jpg
helmet_printed.jpg (18.81 KiB) Viewed 1816 times


I would say it is a good step forward, but I would like to see more detail in the final print.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby Mooselake » 2015-Aug-Mon-14-Aug

cacb wrote:I am kind of allergic to cloud based systems (I made an exception to try 123D Catch) and I am not sure I even have or want to have a "Microsoft account" that appears to be required for netfabb.

I am also adverse to giving out my email address. Way back when I downloaded the non-cloud free version of Netfabb I used nobody@nowhere.com (or maybe one of those 5 minute addresses, don't remember). Not that it matters too much these days, as my 15+ year old main email account is pretty much worthless with all the buy from me emails - and that's despite using sneakemail (well, I am the anti-spam guy) the last 10.

Netfabb still lets me update to new versions, no problem. Definitely useful, I should look and see if they have a donation button and give them a few (a lot fewer than the mighty purchase price) bucks.

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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby cacb » 2015-Aug-Mon-16-Aug

Mooselake wrote:
cacb wrote:I am kind of allergic to cloud based systems (I made an exception to try 123D Catch) and I am not sure I even have or want to have a "Microsoft account" that appears to be required for netfabb.

I am also adverse to giving out my email address.


I have been exploring a cloud free option that looks very promising indeed: VisualSFM + MeshLab
using this tutorial http://wedidstuff.heavyimage.com/index. ... -workflow/

I used the exact same photos as used for 123D Catch and Memento as input. Memento gave me more control than 123D Catch, but VisualSFM provides even better control, and most importantly it showed me why the detail level was poor on the sides of the model. Here is the point cloud after processing in VisualFSM and visualized in MeshLab:

helmet_openfsm_meshlab.jpg.png


It is clear that there are virtually no points computed on the sides. This was probably true also for 123D Catch and memento, but it wasn't so easy to see. Clearly, a new set of photos will be required to improve this model, and I think VisualFSM + Meshlab is the way to go. It is a bonus that this is totally cloud free, the sky is blue :-)

It takes a bit of learning to use VisualFSM and the underlying tools. Installing can be a challenge too, but I managed to do it on Windows after a while, and the referenced workflow/tutorial is highly recommended for those who want to try it. I will experiment more with this software, it looks like the best option to me.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby MileHigh3DII » 2015-Sep-Wed-20-Sep

Since you only need the form, maybe add some bits of flat tape to the areas with low fidelity so the software has some points to work with? I'm looking forward to trying that new software. 123dCatch just hasn't worked well for me.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby frankv » 2015-Sep-Wed-22-Sep

I'm wondering if the absence of points on the side of the helmet is an artifact of the lighting? That side seems to be darker/more shaded than the others? So perhaps it has run out of resolution? Maybe try another series photos with flash or whatever to smooth out the lighting from all directions?

I understand that one of the things to do to improve scans is to paint the object matt white.... hopefully a water-soluble white paint wouldn't harm the helmet itself?
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby thawkins » 2015-Sep-Wed-23-Sep

frankv wrote:I'm wondering if the absence of points on the side of the helmet is an artifact of the lighting? That side seems to be darker/more shaded than the others? So perhaps it has run out of resolution? Maybe try another series photos with flash or whatever to smooth out the lighting from all directions?

I understand that one of the things to do to improve scans is to paint the object matt white.... hopefully a water-soluble white paint wouldn't harm the helmet itself?


You can buy rotating bases designed for cake makers, that would make a suitable base for this. Just rotate the object and use a camera with a good flash.

I wonder if this could be easily automated, if you put a stepper on the base, and use a good quality webcam. An arduino nano a pololu driver connected up would provide a suitable pc driven turntable. The service could be run from a batch file,
Ie turn on the lights via a relay on the arduino, send the command to do a 360 degee rotation, that will take a fixed amount of time, so kick off ffmpeg to capture that number of seconds of video from the camera. Then you can use ffmpeg to extract keyframes every n seconds. To feed into the point cloud processor.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby frankv » 2015-Sep-Thu-04-Sep

What you've just described is similar to the Sardauscan, except with lasers rather than a camera. Also, I saw people in the FreeLSS (Raspberry Pi based laser scanner) group were talking about replacing lasers with a camera and photogrammetry.

Beware of using this with Visual SFM... it appears to use the background to calculate the orientation of the camera to the object. With a turntable and fixed camera, I guess you know that, but you'd have to integrate that into Visual SFM somehow.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby cacb » 2015-Sep-Thu-11-Sep

frankv wrote:I'm wondering if the absence of points on the side of the helmet is an artifact of the lighting? That side seems to be darker/more shaded than the others? So perhaps it has run out of resolution? Maybe try another series photos with flash or whatever to smooth out the lighting from all directions?

I understand that one of the things to do to improve scans is to paint the object matt white.... hopefully a water-soluble white paint wouldn't harm the helmet itself?


I think you are correct about this observation. I was about to redo the photos under better light conditions when an almighty rain weather struck and flooded my basement. Printer survived, but a lot of other things didn't. Will follow up when I recover from the floods.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby cacb » 2015-Sep-Thu-11-Sep

thawkins wrote:You can buy rotating bases designed for cake makers, that would make a suitable base for this. Just rotate the object and use a camera with a good flash.


A flash is the wrong idea, it usually produces the opposite of what you need: soft light. Also the photogrammetry software will be confused about the background which isn't constant relative to the object being imaged. It will cause problems for solving the 3d camera positions, unless you hide the background completely.

thawkins wrote:I wonder if this could be easily automated, if you put a stepper on the base, and use a good quality webcam.


I've done a lot of webcam astronomy. Webcams are good for specialised imaging, but not for this kind of stuff. A better idea would be the Raspberry PI camera module, it is much higher quality and about the right number of image pixels for the software, and it is software controlled.

thawkins wrote:An arduino nano a pololu driver connected up would provide a suitable pc driven turntable. The service could be run from a batch file,
Ie turn on the lights via a relay on the arduino, send the command to do a 360 degee rotation, that will take a fixed amount of time, so kick off ffmpeg to capture that number of seconds of video from the camera. Then you can use ffmpeg to extract keyframes every n seconds. To feed into the point cloud processor.


I believe this is more theory than practice :D You are welcome to prove me wrong, but in reality this isn't straightforward.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby Headbuttsteve » 2016-Nov-Tue-17-Nov

Can anybody please explain how to import digital photos into Autodesk 123d Catch for windows?

Thanks
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Nov-Tue-20-Nov

Sure. Ask our googlian overlords and all will be revealed.

No offense intended, but a Printrbot support forum isn't the best place to ask this. Are you one of the down under Printrbot owners, and which model do you have?

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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby WestReak » 2016-Dec-Fri-04-Dec

Yep I have Artec Spider I usually scan objects with complex geometry (like car engine) so i choosed spider. Yep it's expensive, but it worth it. If you wanna some cheaper, well my friend started with scanning using kinect sensor.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Dec-Fri-13-Dec

WestReak wrote:Yep I have Artec Spider I usually scan objects with complex geometry (like car engine) so i choosed spider. Yep it's expensive, but it worth it. If you wanna some cheaper, well my friend started with scanning using kinect sensor.


The Spider starts at almost $23K US, or about 5 grand more if you want the space qualified model for your next trip to the ISS. That's a bit more expensive than I think Mrs. Moose would agree to. Do you have any sample scans you can share? Pictures of it being used? As a new member you can attach them with the upload attachment tab; you might need to zip the scans depending on the file type and/or size. You might need to click the advanced editor button to find the upload tab.

There's also some RPi based open source 3D scanners that look interesting, and the RPi camera is reportedly better than the usual web cam for scanning.

@WestReak, your IP address comes up as Chelyabinsk, Russia. You're further north than Mooseslake by 8 degrees of latitude (55 instead of 47), plus pretty close to the opposite side of the world from here. We were (a few thousand miles) south of you a couple years ago (went through Istanbul, not over the pole, alas), visiting our daughter in Azerbaijan. You must have some interesting winters, along with the meteor explosion. Welcome to the forum!

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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby WestReak » 2017-Mar-Fri-07-Mar

Mooselake wrote: Do you have any sample scans you can share? Pictures of it being used? As a new member you can attach them with the upload attachment tab; you might need to zip the scans depending on the file type and/or size.

Here's a carburator.
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Re: Anyone have a 3D scanner?

Postby Mooselake » 2017-Apr-Sat-11-Apr

Looks good! Thanks!

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