Filament

Filament

Postby pocketscience » 2012-May-Wed-05-May

Hey guys,

Where are you sourcing your filament from? I've been comparing prices from the US (I'm going there in a couple of weeks and thought it would be cheaper) to ebay and with Oz RepRap... Oz RepRap is way cheaper than local prices in the US! And cheaper than anything I can find on ebay! I think that's a first in the history of the universe that something is cheaper in Oz than anywhere else!


Cheers,
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Re: Filament

Postby ajd4096 » 2012-May-Wed-05-May

Yeah, I just ordered some from Tony at OzRepRap. I hope he gets more ABS in.

I did see one rainbow pack of ABS on fleabay, but I hesitate to place an order that large with a seller with only a feedback of 8.
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Re: Filament

Postby pocketscience » 2012-May-Wed-06-May

Yeah, I saw Mr FeedbackOf8 as well... even that pricing is more than Tony though...
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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-May-Wed-07-May

pocketscience wrote:Hey guys,

Where are you sourcing your filament from? I've been comparing prices from the US (I'm going there in a couple of weeks and thought it would be cheaper) to ebay and with Oz RepRap... Oz RepRap is way cheaper than local prices in the US! And cheaper than anything I can find on ebay! I think that's a first in the history of the universe that something is cheaper in Oz than anywhere else!


Cheers,

My red ABS and PLA sample pack from Oz RepRap arrived today. I also got some bearings while I was at it.
I think this will last a while. Pity he didn't do ABS in smaller lots so I could stock up on more colours.
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Re: Filament

Postby markvovo » 2012-May-Fri-20-May

Ordered some yellow ABS and a rainbow pack of PLA from OzRepRap.
Got email that yellow was also out of stock (black & red already marked as out of stock on page).

So waiting on new stock to arrive hopefully next week.

Edit: New stock of Black arrived. Tony shipping it today 17th . Wish my printrbot was here as well ;)
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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-May-Tue-23-May

markvovo wrote:Ordered some yellow ABS and a rainbow pack of PLA from OzRepRap.
Got email that yellow was also out of stock (black & red already marked as out of stock on page).

So waiting on new stock to arrive hopefully next week.

Edit: New stock of Black arrived. Tony shipping it today 17th . Wish my printrbot was here as well ;)

I emailed them and ask when the 1Kg lots PLA would be back in stock.
Unfortunately the answer was "never".
It makes it expensive to stock bulk colours 2.5Kg at a time. I've got a fair bit done with the colour sample pack but I'd prefer 1Kg spools.
In theory I should be able to make my own if filibot works and I can find a supply of pellets etc but I'm not holding my breath waiting.
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Re: Filament

Postby pocketscience » 2012-May-Wed-00-May

I ordered a few rolls from http://www.repraper.com/ last week as a test. Slightly cheaper than OzRepRap, with more options in terms of colours etc, but obviously less peace of mind... we shall see what turns up...

I've also brought up the topic of a group buy with Brook. He was positive on being able to do something, but is still drowning finishing up the KS, so it won't be for a month or so at least I'm guessing. I actually got some filament from him at MakerFaire and the natural I got was very different to the filament that shipped with my PB - though it all apparently comes from protoparadigm.

Now that I have a working printrboard I'm burning (melting) through filament like there's no tomorrow. Also waiting for filabot - have been saving all my mistakes... ;-)


G.
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Re: Filament

Postby CL1 » 2012-May-Wed-01-May

pocketscience wrote:I actually got some filament from him at MakerFaire and the natural I got was very different to the filament that shipped with my PB - though it all apparently comes from protoparadigm.

PB has developed a second source for filament. The original natural ABS filament was ProtoParadigm. What you almost certainly received at MakerFaire was the new stuff.

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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-May-Wed-06-May

pocketscience wrote:I ordered a few rolls from http://www.repraper.com/ last week as a test. Slightly cheaper than OzRepRap, with more options in terms of colours etc, but obviously less peace of mind... we shall see what turns up...

I've also brought up the topic of a group buy with Brook. He was positive on being able to do something, but is still drowning finishing up the KS, so it won't be for a month or so at least I'm guessing. I actually got some filament from him at MakerFaire and the natural I got was very different to the filament that shipped with my PB - though it all apparently comes from protoparadigm.

Now that I have a working printrboard I'm burning (melting) through filament like there's no tomorrow. Also waiting for filabot - have been saving all my mistakes... ;-)


G.

Those prices look good - what about freight?
E.
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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-May-Wed-06-May

CL1 wrote:
pocketscience wrote:I actually got some filament from him at MakerFaire and the natural I got was very different to the filament that shipped with my PB - though it all apparently comes from protoparadigm.

PB has developed a second source for filament. The original natural ABS filament was ProtoParadigm. What you almost certainly received at MakerFaire was the new stuff.

CL1

CL1,
For us Aussies it is a freight issue. Unless it is really cheap or there is a cheap deliver option it is just too expensive to import it.
Oz-reprap looked good but now you can't buy small rolls and also I've found the diameter to be variable. I've had a frustrating day trying to print green PLA - some of it is down to 2.75mm - not exactly prime specs.
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Re: Filament

Postby mikemwa53 » 2012-May-Wed-06-May

I was just checking out Repraper.com and saw the conductive filament. Does anyone know anything about this stuff?
How important is it to have a precise diameter on the filament?
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Re: Filament

Postby Mooselake » 2012-May-Wed-13-May

eddiema wrote:Those prices look good - what about freight?
E.


To the US the freight can be as much as the filament, going down with larger orders. For 6kg freight was about half the total cost, but the filament was still a good deal. Any of the other orders care to mention their freight cost.

mikemwa53 wrote:How important is it to have a precise diameter on the filament?


From what I've read, consistency is more important than precise diameter as long as it'll fit and feed. You can calibrate for slightly off size, but not it it changes throughout the spool. I just cut open a package and nipped off a piece of natural pla - my calipers say it varies from 2.94 to 2.98mm as I rotated it in the calipers. Sampled at several locations over the 6" piece the results were pretty close to the same, 0.04 to 0.05mm out of round, probably within the error of my technique. If anybody else gets some please post your results.

Still a botless backer so can't test it in the printer. When it gets here I'll try it on glass, blue tape, Koptan and PET tape. Hmm, probably have almost in spare parts and supplies as the PB cost, time to slack off.

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Re: Filament

Postby CL1 » 2012-May-Wed-22-May

Mooselake wrote:Hmm, probably have almost in spare parts and supplies as the PB cost, time to slack off.

I've found that to be the case for virtually all kinds of *making* machines. The cost for tooling, support materials and related items often meets and exceeds the machine cost! So you're probably right on track! ;)

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Re: Filament

Postby pocketscience » 2012-May-Wed-22-May

eddiema wrote:Those prices look good - what about freight?
E.


Pretty good. Even with freight it came out cheaper than OzReprap.com. 3kg of filament plus shipping came to ~$75.

G.
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Re: Filament

Postby Mooselake » 2012-May-Thu-00-May

CL1 wrote:The cost for tooling, support materials and related items often meets and exceeds the machine cost! So you're probably right on track! ;)


That was certainly true for my CNC mini router, by a large margin. It's just that I haven't even gotten the PB+ yet :( Some of it has got to be waiting for botdoe stress relief.

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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-Jun-Fri-17-Jun

pocketscience wrote:
eddiema wrote:Those prices look good - what about freight?
E.


Pretty good. Even with freight it came out cheaper than OzReprap.com. 3kg of filament plus shipping came to ~$75.

G.

How long do you expect it to take to arrive?
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Re: Filament

Postby shai » 2012-Jun-Fri-20-Jun

shipping on repraper.com is $27.84 and 1kg of 3mm filament in white costs $14.

Why is shipping so high? That's almost double the filament cost.
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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-Jun-Fri-21-Jun

shai wrote:shipping on repraper.com is $27.84 and 1kg of 3mm filament in white costs $14.

Why is shipping so high? That's almost double the filament cost.

I've paid that much getting 1kg from the US to here as well.
The problem is worse if you want pellets to make your own. Maybe $4 for the plastic and 30ish in shipping.
On the other hand shipping from China to here is cheap.
Sites like tmart.com (not a site for filament) have "free" delivery. Virtual-village has expensive delivery when they started then they put they price of goods up 10 or 20% and delivered for free.
You can buy stuff for under a buck from tmart including world wide delivery.
If one of these site starts selling filament people will buy it even if the quality is low.
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Re: Filament

Postby pocketscience » 2012-Jun-Fri-21-Jun

eddiema wrote:
pocketscience wrote:
eddiema wrote:Those prices look good - what about freight?
E.


Pretty good. Even with freight it came out cheaper than OzReprap.com. 3kg of filament plus shipping came to ~$75.

G.

How long do you expect it to take to arrive?


FedEx says tuesday. There was a couple of days hiccup with it leaving, but it's well on its way now.

G.
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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-Jun-Fri-22-Jun

pocketscience wrote:
FedEx says tuesday. There was a couple of days hiccup with it leaving, but it's well on its way now.

G.

I see they are in Hong-Kong same as tmart and potential have access to the same cheap freight.
The free shipping these bargain shops offer is like 3-5 weeks - fast delivery still costs a fair bit.
Mostly I can plan a month ahead but I've been slack because I assumed I could get PLA locally.
edit: I want it all! That glow in the dark stuff sounds interesting - I think I'll get some.
edit2: ordered 4 kg and got hit $55 delivery - there might be a delivery price jump over 3Kg.
It would be worth checking out what the optimum order quantities are.
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Re: Filament

Postby markvovo » 2012-Jun-Sat-10-Jun

I just ordered 3Kg (Blue ABS,Red ABS and Glow In Dark Green ABS) from repraper.com - Total $85.60USD, which was $90.56AUD - Filament was $38USD so shipping was around $48USD

So that gives me 2.5Kg of Black ABS, and the above ABS. Oh, and the rainbow pack of PLA. Should keep me going for a little while.
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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-Jun-Sun-21-Jun

I added 2 rolls of ABS to my REPRAPER order.
FYI here is what he said about delivery.
"For 5~10kg order, the delivery cost is 11$/kg, the ABS 3.0mm is 14$/kg. So the total is 25$ including delivery cost"
Somewhere else they mentioned the packing weight - not sure if this is normally included in the $11.

Anyway I hope this stuff is better than what I have - at $14/kg I'm not betting on it.
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Re: Filament

Postby shai » 2012-Jun-Sun-21-Jun

That delivery cost seems very expensive from repraper.com

Ultimachine delivery cost is around 10 bucks and even if you add more filament it stays the same. Although I can't speak for their filament quality, haven't ordered any filament yet.
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Re: Filament

Postby Mooselake » 2012-Jun-Sun-22-Jun

shai wrote:That delivery cost seems very expensive from repraper.com

Ultimachine delivery cost is around 10 bucks and even if you add more filament it stays the same. Although I can't speak for their filament quality, haven't ordered any filament yet.


Ultimachine's ABS is $43/kg, repraper's is $14/kg. With shipping to the US my total delivered cost was a bit under $26/kg for 6kg mixed abs and pla, so the delivered cost is still a lot lower.

They ship via FedEx, it takes around a week. The cheap/free shipping from tmart, dealextreme, etc. is because they use the postal system. I know when ordering from Thailand (futurlec.com) that at 2.0 kg they automatically switch you from postal to FedEx shipping and charge an extra $30 on your credit card. My order was 2.04kg<sigh>.

Perhaps repraper can ship a kg via the post; email Simon and ask.

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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-Jun-Sun-22-Jun

Mooselake wrote:
shai wrote:That delivery cost seems very expensive from repraper.com

Ultimachine delivery cost is around 10 bucks and even if you add more filament it stays the same. Although I can't speak for their filament quality, haven't ordered any filament yet.


Ultimachine's ABS is $43/kg, repraper's is $14/kg. With shipping to the US my total delivered cost was a bit under $26/kg for 6kg mixed abs and pla, so the delivered cost is still a lot lower.

They ship via FedEx, it takes around a week. The cheap/free shipping from tmart, dealextreme, etc. is because they use the postal system. I know when ordering from Thailand (futurlec.com) that at 2.0 kg they automatically switch you from postal to FedEx shipping and charge an extra $30 on your credit card. My order was 2.04kg<sigh>.

Perhaps repraper can ship a kg via the post; email Simon and ask.

Kirk

Has anyone used the repraper.com filament yet? Is the size as good as they say in the specs?
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Re: Filament

Postby pocketscience » 2012-Jun-Sun-23-Jun

Mine has arrived. I'll try it out tonight hopefully.


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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-Jun-Mon-00-Jun

pocketscience wrote:Mine has arrived. I'll try it out tonight hopefully.


G.

A day early too.
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Re: Filament

Postby pocketscience » 2012-Jun-Mon-00-Jun

eddiema wrote:A day early too.


Yup, once it got into Fedex hands it moved very quickly. Hopefully the quality is acceptable...


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Re: Filament

Postby shai » 2012-Jun-Mon-00-Jun

pocketscience wrote:
eddiema wrote:A day early too.


Yup, once it got into Fedex hands it moved very quickly. Hopefully the quality is acceptable...


G.


Let us know how the quality of the filament from repraper.com is after measuring/testing. I'm thinking of ordering some ABS/PLA from them.
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Re: Filament

Postby pocketscience » 2012-Jun-Mon-04-Jun

Well, it seems no worse than the other ABS I've got from Brook (2 different types of natural and some red). I got purple, blue and silver from repraper.com and have done a few quick test prints with the purple and it's ok. The filament measures 2.98x2.9 and comes on small spools for each Kg you buy. I didn't weigh the spools, but they were as full as you see on their website. Going to buy some PVC piping to make a filament stand next.

Image
Image


I can't see any reason at the moment not to at least give them a go, but YMMV as with anything.


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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-Jun-Tue-07-Jun

I got my 7Kgs from repraper.com today.
I'm printing with black ABS and it seems pretty good. The sizing for the first part of the roll was very close to 3mm.
I'm happy so far.
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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-Jun-Thu-21-Jun

eddiema wrote:I got my 7Kgs from repraper.com today.
I'm printing with black ABS and it seems pretty good. The sizing for the first part of the roll was very close to 3mm.
I'm happy so far.

The blue ABS is another story. It is printing with little bubbles in it. Size is smaller and seems more variable. I'd say it is overall worse than the red stuff I was complaining about.
I've also had cracking again but I think this is because the room was cold - it seem better now it is daytime again.
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Re: Filament

Postby pocketscience » 2012-Jun-Thu-21-Jun

I got some blue as well, but haven't tried that out yet. The silver was pretty nice that I used for the big-ass bolt pencil case.

I'm now running a small fan heater in my little project room and as long as I let it get the room temp up before starting I'm finding it helps a great deal.


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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-Jun-Fri-00-Jun

pocketscience wrote:I got some blue as well, but haven't tried that out yet. The silver was pretty nice that I used for the big-ass bolt pencil case.

I'm now running a small fan heater in my little project room and as long as I let it get the room temp up before starting I'm finding it helps a great deal.


Cheers,

Lowering the nozzle temp 5 deg has improved but not eliminated the bubble problem. I still had bad cracking it the big print I did today.
It is hard to fix because it don't happen on small tests.
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Re: Filament

Postby karmacappa » 2012-Jun-Fri-15-Jun

Have you tried drying it out in an oven or something similar? I think I've heard cases where absorbed water turns into steam inside the hotend and causes bubbles like you're talking about. It was probably a conversation over on reprap.org, but I don't have a link to it.

Here is *A* thread about a similar problem. Bubbles in a suppliers filament were causing blobbing and spitting due to gas trapped in the filament:
http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,136842,136847,quote=1
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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-Jun-Fri-18-Jun

karmacappa wrote:Have you tried drying it out in an oven or something similar? I think I've heard cases where absorbed water turns into steam inside the hotend and causes bubbles like you're talking about. It was probably a conversation over on reprap.org, but I don't have a link to it.

Here is *A* thread about a similar problem. Bubbles in a suppliers filament were causing blobbing and spitting due to gas trapped in the filament:
http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?1,136842,136847,quote=1

No. I'll probably make a drying box (descant) one day. If it is water I don't see why 215C is so much worse than 210C.
The prints aren't too bad at the lower temp.
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Re: Filament

Postby pocketscience » 2012-Jun-Fri-20-Jun

FWIW I printed with my blue and didn't have any troubles - the prints came out as I expected and there wasn't any bubbles or anything else that would make me think it was worse than the purple or silver I got from repraper.


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Re: Filament

Postby karmacappa » 2012-Jun-Fri-20-Jun

eddiema wrote:No. I'll probably make a drying box (descant) one day. If it is water I don't see why 215C is so much worse than 210C.
The prints aren't too bad at the lower temp.


When water turns to steam, it increases volume drastically. When you continue to heat steam, it continues to increase the volume at a pretty good clip. This is why a relatively small proportion of water in your filament causes big issues when it hits the hot end.
You should also check the cross section of the filament to make sure it doesn't have bubbles or channels inside it. Simple gas expansion can also cause bad results.
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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-Jun-Fri-21-Jun

karmacappa wrote:
eddiema wrote:No. I'll probably make a drying box (descant) one day. If it is water I don't see why 215C is so much worse than 210C.
The prints aren't too bad at the lower temp.


When water turns to steam, it increases volume drastically. When you continue to heat steam, it continues to increase the volume at a pretty good clip. This is why a relatively small proportion of water in your filament causes big issues when it hits the hot end.
You should also check the cross section of the filament to make sure it doesn't have bubbles or channels inside it. Simple gas expansion can also cause bad results.

Then why is it OK at 210C? I'm also well into the roll now which might be different in the middle.
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Re: Filament

Postby karmacappa » 2012-Jun-Fri-22-Jun

The outer windings of the spool would've been the most exposed to air and would've absorbed more moisture than the center.
A 5C difference is significant. That jump in temperature is easily enough to make the volume of the steam rise by more than 10%. The hotter you get, the more problems that moisture or air in your filament is going to cause. It genererally pays to lower your hot end temperature to the minimum temperature that is required to print reliably with your filament.

http://reprap.org/wiki/Triffid_Hunter%27s_Calibration_Guide
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Re: Filament

Postby eddiema » 2012-Jun-Sat-03-Jun

karmacappa wrote: That jump in temperature is easily enough to make the volume of the steam rise by more than 10%. [/url]

The ideal gas law says about 1% - even 10% is not going to make that much difference.
It turns out black also has bubbles at 210C - I didn't notice any the other day at 215C but I gave the piece away and can't check.
I'll run tests on white and red tomorrow. My temperature control may have drifted.
There are too many variables to jump to any conclusions. New plastic, new fan mount, new season and new hot bed surface.
I'll sort it out.
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eddiema
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Re: Filament

Postby karmacappa » 2012-Jun-Sat-10-Jun

eddiema wrote:
karmacappa wrote: That jump in temperature is easily enough to make the volume of the steam rise by more than 10%. [/url]

The ideal gas law says about 1% - even 10% is not going to make that much difference.


Tell that to the bubbles in your print. :)
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