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Printrbot Talk Forum • View topic - Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Talk about modifications to the printer

Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby nevets » 2014-Aug-Mon-12-Aug

okay so what your saying is when I move 50 in repetier host I should devide by the number of mm plus 100 or how should I do the math thanks steve.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Bellus » 2014-Aug-Mon-13-Aug

You have to adjust your M92 in the EEPROM. Using M501 to check your current steps for X or Y(whichever you are changing) should be around 80ish, then multiply that x2 and then reissue the M92 X???.?? Or M92 Y???.?? (?= new steps) M500 to store new settings and M501 to verify save.


If you should happen to need to tweak the steps you can use a simple formula (old steps *software move)/hardware move= new steps.

Example (160*100)/95=168.421. 160 being your current steps, 100 being what you told the axis to move, and 95 being what it actually moved. 168.421 would be your new steps this just an example, you would have to plug your numbers. Then use the above steps. To modify the EEPROM. There may be an easier way, but this what I used.


Hope that helps


Ed
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Aug-Sun-03-Aug

I rebuilt my Y assembly with a mix of 2014 and 1405 parts, along with a modified front mount so that the hotend would touch the bed of the 2014 simple. Z wobble has been eliminated for me, and having a integrated 40mm fan mount is excellent. I also have no more problems with the belt wanting to ride off the bearing. I am extremely happy.

Image

Image

For the front piece you see in the photos, I took the regular 1405 front piece, lowered the hotend mounting area by about an inch, removed the Z probe mount, and removed double precision. If someone would like the STL, just ask.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby nevets » 2014-Aug-Tue-17-Aug

thanks for all the help have it dialed in, but now have a problem with the y axis jerking after the second layer of printing, have 300 double precision y axis. thanks steve
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Aug-Wed-10-Aug

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby nevets » 2014-Aug-Thu-00-Aug

not sure how do I check for speed?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Aug-Thu-10-Aug

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Threefer3 » 2014-Aug-Sun-15-Aug

Here is a video of the current state of my upgraded simple. It has modified versions of Jon's X and Y double precision mods for the simple 1405. I have also designed a mod that adds a third rod for the Z and the Y. I can now print at 100mm/s with the Y at 300mm full extension. My X is now 350mm. I'll update with more info later.

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Last edited by Threefer3 on 2014-Aug-Sun-21-Aug, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Bellus » 2014-Aug-Sun-16-Aug

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-Aug-Sun-18-Aug

Can you post the stl files?that is impressive!!!
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Threefer3 » 2014-Aug-Sun-20-Aug

Its designed to work with the older 1405 XL tower. I am going to clean up the models first, then ill post the files.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby cruzinbill » 2014-Sep-Tue-15-Sep

@Jon Lawrence The pieces seem to be pretty badass. I am however having issues with extruder temps when trying to print abs.
I was trying to print the piece in abs so that perhaps it will hold up to the temps better, but doing a 2hour print is out of the question without the extruder mount sagging.

Do you suppose it would be possible to make a piece that would attach to the rods how your current piece does, but instead of being a whole printed mount, it have holes to attach wooden 1405 mount pieces.
Essentially just being a bracket of sorts for the 1405 extruder mount to attacth to the extended rails. I could do a crude picture if need be, I simply lack the skills to make it into a model myself.
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Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Bellus » 2014-Sep-Wed-00-Sep

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Sep-Thu-19-Sep

I remember the 2013 version of this mod included slots for the plywood extruder plate. I ran with this version until I decided to do a remix of 2014/1405 parts. Since I have the E3D V5, heat creep is pretty much a non issue for me so I am able to use plastic parts around the hotend.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby cruzinbill » 2014-Sep-Thu-02-Sep

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Dabhaidh » 2014-Oct-Tue-15-Oct

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Prinrtbot simple upgraded to 1405 XL
Jon Lawrence upgrades :
1405 Simple X Expanded (Single/Double Precision)
1405 300mm No Sag, Printrbot Simple
12" x 12" glass heat bed with PEI sheet, 12" x 12" 28 GA steel sheet under glass bed
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby thawkins » 2014-Oct-Tue-23-Oct

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Jonbot+
225mm x 200mm - Heated Bed
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-------------------------------
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Flashforge 3d Creator Pro
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Oct-Tue-19-Oct

Has anyone had issues with the rods being slightly off? So that when you extend the axis the hot end is at an angle like this / instead of like this l

I have tries twisting and tightening to no avail.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby danman78 » 2014-Oct-Tue-07-Oct

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby KD6HQ » 2014-Oct-Tue-14-Oct

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby danman78 » 2014-Oct-Wed-05-Oct

I am experiencing a very loud and vibrating y axis since I upgraded.. any ideas? alinement?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby KD6HQ » 2014-Oct-Wed-16-Oct

check and make sure everything is tight, set screws etc...... sounds like the belt may be loose....
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby danman78 » 2014-Nov-Sun-05-Nov

Found some vibration on the fan shroud of all places.. also I think My Y motor may need to be replaced I may have used too long of screws to mount it and it pressed the motor open.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby danman78 » 2014-Nov-Sun-05-Nov

In the dual setup I am having some issues with the Y axis belt and vibration when printing fast. the belt gets caught on the pulley as it vibrates and the grooves in the belt catch on each other and then pull the Y axis out whack. I tried a smaller 625 bearing and that cause some other issues. In the single configuration I pulled up on the belt after the pulley and it kept the vibrating belt away from the pulley. I can play with the tension of the belt but It goes from way more vibration on the belt to causing the motor to cease from too much tension.

Any ideas?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Nov-Sun-05-Nov

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby danman78 » 2014-Nov-Thu-00-Nov

I actually just changed out the pulley I thought I may have had the wrong pulley with the wrong belt. not much change.. they both have 20 teeth... they may be a different pitch.. it seems it might be better now... however, .. I just burnt out my second Y axis motor... My first one I used too long of screws and forced the motor cover out of alignment. And it just never worked right since... this one that I got as a replacement I don't think was strong enough.. was not sure how to figure out what motor was appropriate.. it just skips with the least amount of resistance. So I have another on order now. I really hope that fixes it.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Nov-Thu-15-Nov

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Nov-Fri-00-Nov

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Nov-Fri-08-Nov

Here is the motor I use if you are interested:
https://ultimachine.com/content/kysan-1 ... pper-motor
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby danman78 » 2014-Nov-Fri-12-Nov

I ended up ordering a small motor again... then after this last post ordered a larger one as well. I just installed the smaller one and also loosened the belt as much as it could tolerate and that has reduced operating heat quite a bit and has made the y-axis much smoother .This does however increase belt vibration but I think its worth the tradeoff.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Nov-Fri-16-Nov

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Nov-Fri-20-Nov

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Nov-Fri-21-Nov

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Nov-Fri-21-Nov

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby danman78 » 2014-Nov-Thu-01-Nov

OK, so i did order the larger motor for the Y end and just installed it.. I could not be more happier.. I would say that this is just what this MOD needs.. the extra work put on that y motor especially if you are using the double belt configuration... I have just had to many times when the motor skipped in the middle of a long print..

This motor has like 52N somthing holding torque compared to the old motor having only 21N somthing...

not sure what that all means but this thing is a beast.. I held the motor and tried beyond what should have been acceptable force on the y axis to get it to move.. and it held. I figured I would not press it any more..


it is also much quieter and smoother as it seems it is not working nearly as hard. I can probably even turn down the power POT on the printrboard a bit to cool it down...

Thanks for the advice.. I would not hesitate to spend the 15$ upgrade.. well worth it!!!

Oh.. as I am writing this a print is going running.. I have tried to print this particular thing time and time again... HOLY CRAP .. it even look significantly better of a print... the infill is crazy smooth it usually has some chunk to it or places where it does not quite connect on either end.. wow..

I keep adding updates to this as I am printing....
can I say WOW one more time.. .. the amount of vibration on the Y axis was a constant issue.. with ribbing and bouncing around corners..
Vibration with this motor has been reduced I am going to say 100%... yes.. this is a amazing.. and with the bowden end this thing is stupid stable...
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby greenb » 2014-Nov-Fri-13-Nov

Could you post a picture? I am curious to see the difference in print quality between the larger and smaller stepper motor.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby danman78 » 2014-Nov-Sat-02-Nov

most of the differences are in performance like I said the amount of vibration and the amount of noise and those types of things but I do have one example. I will let you guess which one is which these are printed from the exact same settings:

1416035453204857651782.jpg

14160353395281144334096.jpg

1416035277000-1141835111.jpg


these are some planes I tried to print, I quit both of them for completely unrelated reasons. The slicer didn't slice it right so I couldn't complete it but that aside this is support material that was being printed for the plane. On one you can see that the y-axis actually skipped so the support material drifted after about the third layer. obviously one of the problems that I was having with that motor as well The extruder probably got stuck on a little bit of filament that was sticking up and it skipped. the new motor just power through that type of thing. but if you can look beyond that you can see how well each individual layer is adhering to itself on the nicer looking one that is the larger motor. That is due to the fact that there is less vibration up and down and the layers stick to each other much more evenly and precisely even at the faster speeds that it will print support material. so this is not an intentional comparison it just happens to be the print I was working on when I switched out the motor. I have printed a few other objects now and I just have to say that the results are consistent I could get results with the old motor but I had to do a lot to compensate and I didn't realize that all that tweaking was related to that motor. Things like layer height extrusion flow control and speed i had to coninuall keep modified to compensate for the issues the motor was ultimately causing. I have a lot more flexibility in the settings now and I'm starting to get some relatively good results with a ton less hassle...this new motor brings a greater tolerance for every movement. And has allowed me to really explore some of the other settings and find out what they're really meant to do and help. I wish I had better pictures but this is what I got let me know what you think
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Corey Warren » 2014-Nov-Sat-13-Nov

I have a question about moving the end-stop switch for the y-axis after Jon's y-axis upgrade is installed. After moving the switch to the front position instead of the back, do I reverse my Y-Axis plug to the board? Will that cause my prints to be reversed for the y direction?
What's the correct way to do this?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby greenb » 2014-Nov-Sat-18-Nov

To me, it seems that the corners are very "crisp". I wonder how much improvement could be attained by using larger stepper motors for both the X axis and the Y axis.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Nov-Sat-19-Nov

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Nov-Mon-11-Nov

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Corey Warren » 2014-Nov-Tue-17-Nov

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Nov-Wed-10-Nov

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby theverant » 2014-Nov-Tue-10-Nov

Thanks for doing all this design work, it's really great! I need to make some tweaks - the Cattrackmount hits the frame of my XL panels - it needs to be mirrored (the top portion, not the whole thing). Is it possible to get your design files in STEP, IGES or some other Fusion 360 friendly format? I can import the STLs but I can't really edit them properly. :idea: Unless you have ideas how I can make it work :?:

:mrgreen:

Cheers!
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Nov-Tue-14-Nov

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby theverant » 2014-Nov-Tue-16-Nov

Aces! Works great! Will post back my changes.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby theverant » 2014-Nov-Sun-20-Nov

So yeah, took a little longer than expected - that's life, eh?

Apparently a simple mirror wasn't enough - was still hitting the XL frame. So I gave it a little neck. I think it's rather shapely ;)

render.png

_DSF9833.JPG

_DSF9834.JPG

Please download any version you wish straight from my Fusion 360 account:
ugggggg. apparently adding offsite URLs is a no go (new user). So STL is attached.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby thawkins » 2014-Dec-Sat-10-Dec

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby theverant » 2014-Dec-Sat-12-Dec

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby orrkislev » 2015-Feb-Wed-07-Feb

Hey
so I have this mod for a while now, and I've had many many different problems, mostly with the belt slipping on the x axis, but not only. every few prints/days/weeks theres another, new, problem. most of the time I can handle it...

ok, so first of all - I do have sag, plenty of sag. when the head is extended all the way (200mm) its a few mm lower. very annoying , but I have the leveling probe so I can print evenly, which is really nice.
so, what i've done most of the time, is try to get the bed as level *to the ground* as I can, hopefully its perpendicular to the z axis. and it was ok, for a few months.
but now I have this weird 'sag' or 'leaning' on every print! my prints are leaning toward the body of the printer. like when printing a cube, instead of a rectangle (from side view) its a parallelogram.
other than that its calibrated very well, the prints are precise and smooth. when I print john lawrence calibration test, its pretty good, accept that i cant get the nut inside from the side because ots crooked..
i've tried leveling the bed the the print head (which requires a crazy slope). level to the ground, and even slope the other way (bottom part toward the printer body), and it was almost the same result.

p.jpg
(the dotted line is parallel to the z axis)

dont know how to fix that.
my plan is after i can fix that, print the whole mod again and reassemble it, without problems..

thanks,
Orr
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby danman78 » 2015-Feb-Thu-01-Feb

two things I would try.. Ditch the linear bearing brackets and simply use zip ties. I was never really able to get the bearings tight enough using them. I would expect the zip ties to develop some sag over time as they can stretch. As for the belt slipping I would make sure that there is no resistance on the axis's when full disconnected from the belt. One thing that may sound count-intuitive is loosening the belt tension. My guess is you are tightening it in order to mitigate the slipping. I have a lot more slack on my belt that you would think would work correctly. But my belts no longer slip unless something external reaches it. When the belt it tight it puts more strain on the motor and it could be the motor slipping not the belt, due to the force you are putting on the motor. Just think how freely the bed will move back and forth, you can push it gently with your finger to move it. The motor should not be struggling. I did put a full size motor on my X axis and the results have been amazing.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby eddie » 2015-Mar-Thu-00-Mar

Hi all. Thanks to everyone on this board for providing some great mods and lots of useful info. I'm new to 3D printing but after looking here and starting to put together some upgrades am starting to understand my printer a lot better. I've already installed the X axis upgrade and have a nice 150x210 bed with a GT2 belt but my question has to do with printing the Y axis bearing plate. I just can't seem to get it to print properly, and I'm wondering if it's my slicer or something else. Admittedly I have 2 of them that came out fine, but it turns out my printer wasn't calibrated as well as I thought so now the z axis rod spacing isn't correct. I went to print a new one last night and the print failed halfway through - the large bottom part was ok but once I started getting to the support structure for the z axis nut it looks like the filament stopped sticking or something and I just ended up with a giant blob next to the properly printed base and a glob stuck to the hotend. Luckily nothing was damaged but I don't understand why it failed. And this has happened once before when I tried to print this part. Any opinions would be greatly appreciated! I'm very lucky to have a local surplus store that has 12" 8mm rods for $2 each as well as scrap plastic so the plexi bed only cost me $1.50. Hopefully once I get this y axis mod working I'll be able to print a full jonbot (an unrelated print failure destroyed the fishing line on my y axis so I'm running my prints really slow using dollar store string) and a rostock mini. These printers are addictive!
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2015-Mar-Thu-20-Mar

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby orrkislev » 2015-Mar-Sat-14-Mar

oh! thanks so much! I'll try it right away!

and, could you show us how does your printer looks like? (jon)
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby frankv » 2015-Mar-Sun-12-Mar

If you look at this post , it explains how an unlevel bed plus slop in the Z axis + auto-levelling can cause a lean in the X or Y axis.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2015-Mar-Sun-19-Mar

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby orangefurball » 2015-Mar-Sun-20-Mar

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2015-Mar-Tue-20-Mar

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby ThereWillBprints2 » 2015-Apr-Sat-23-Apr

Please share that green feed line part! Also now that I see the filament on the other side, I am sure that is how to fix a couple issues.

Also for the probe, is it possible to widen the supporting plate as opposed to moving anything around? I would just be curious if nothing else.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2015-Apr-Mon-17-Apr

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby adjavaherian » 2017-Jan-Sun-22-Jan

Hi, I recently installed this mod and was wondering do you have to re-flash marlin firmware to change the dimensions of print bed after modding?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby RetireeJay » 2017-Jan-Mon-13-Jan

Some versions of Marlin (mainly from Printrbot) have bed dimensions in EEPROM so they can be changed without re-flashing the firmware; other versions don't. Send and M503 command and examine the "log" of the data that comes back to see if your version supports changing the bed dimensions. If not, then you'll have to re-flash, either with a version compiled for your bed dimensions or with a version that does support setting bed dimensions. Note that it's critical to use a version that's compatible with your board; Rev D and Rev F boards require different firmware.
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