Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Apr-Sun-23-Apr

hmm my z steps are 2030 even though I'm using the stock 1/4" acme rod, 2015.75 leaves things short for me
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby ThereWillBprints » 2014-Apr-Tue-07-Apr

Went all in on Z and X axis. I am going to print some feet in order to stabilize the new size. Oddly enough Y axis is not modded yet because I simply hadn't the time or space. I also am still using the "line" but that may or may not go. Using .25" acrylic bed. New height max is 244.2mm while the new width is 330.2mm which makes it tip.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-Apr-Tue-13-Apr

ThereWillBprints,
Do you have any gravity sag in the center of the acrylic?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby ThereWillBprints » 2014-Apr-Tue-17-Apr

Not on 1/4" thick. Not even after drilling. It just stays there. It was even cut to size from an 18×24 sheet to 8×16. It was from Lowe's and cost $20 but I got three of them. Also with the melting point so close to pla it will kind of act like a heated bed.
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406mm by 8mm lm rods for x and z axis
Z stabilizer bar
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New print are a 274 mm width × 267mm height × 101 depth (will change to 200 mm once verified and I have time)
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Apr-Tue-19-Apr

Beware of warping on the acrylic bed, though. My school's three Type A Machines use some thick acrylic, but they have warped after a couple months of use.

Same thing happens with some makerbots.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-Apr-Tue-20-Apr

ThereWillBprints wrote:Not on 1/4" thick. Not even after drilling. It just stays there. It was even cut to size from an 18×24 sheet to 8×16. It was from Lowe's and cost $20 but I got three of them. Also with the melting point so close to pla it will kind of act like a heated bed.


I probably used the same piece with my original bed increase and I also extended it out from the motor, creating an overhang. Worked great initially, but started sagging. Not sure it could have been the weight or putting hot plastic on it. It actually started to bend in a U shape. I eventually put a sheet of 8x10 glass from a picture frame on top to correct it, but it continued to sag and seperate from the glass. My drill holes where exact, so I could flip the plastic and use the opposite face for printing until it sagged.
It is a wonderful surface to print on just too much thermal wear in my case. . Just be aware it's possible and add center bed measurements to your bed leveling routine.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby ThereWillBprints » 2014-Apr-Wed-04-Apr

How thick was the plate? Mine was cut to size from 1/4" or 6.78mm thick sheet that was originally 18"×24". This ended up giving me three sheets all the same as well. Also I could clamp a metal sheet to it and it should be fine. The melting point for plexiglass is slightly higher than pla;)
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406mm by 8mm lm rods for x and z axis
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New print are a 274 mm width × 267mm height × 101 depth (will change to 200 mm once verified and I have time)
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby thawkins » 2014-Apr-Wed-07-Apr

ThereWillBprints wrote:How thick was the plate? Mine was cut to size from 1/4" or 6.78mm thick sheet that was originally 18"×24". This ended up giving me three sheets all the same as well. Also I could clamp a metal sheet to it and it should be fine. The melting point for plexiglass is slightly higher than pla;)


I used an acrylic number plate cover on my self build machine, exactly right size and nicely bevelled and curved edges.

I added a steel tube flush with acrylic on the underside, which resulted in zero deflection no matter how hard I pushed down on it.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-Apr-Wed-09-Apr

Thawkins ,how do you like the smartrap?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby REPRAP SQUAD » 2014-Apr-Wed-11-Apr

If I remember correctly thawkins doesn't have the smarttrap. Thats his own creation that is similar. How do you like the one you built pictured. I've been debating building a small printer as I am currently building a beast that is mostly aluminum plus style monster.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-Apr-Wed-11-Apr

I had a few setbacks,Had to put the 1st Jon Lawrence print of the 300 mm Y no sag back together.The holes for the rods are too close,I think it is my settings.I like thawkins design,that is the true definition of a simple.I have extra rods and a ramps card along with a cardboard box of parts.I have not finished one project and I want to start another.My job and my wife gets in the way of things.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-Apr-Wed-16-Apr

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398893814.105027.jpg
can someone help me out?I would like to know what are your outer measurements for the smooth rods on this build?I am trying to confirm if my new calibration is correct,my newest print was 1.5 mm short.Thanks
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby thawkins » 2014-Apr-Wed-21-Apr

REPRAP SQUAD wrote:If I remember correctly thawkins doesn't have the smarttrap. Thats his own creation that is similar. How do you like the one you built pictured. I've been debating building a small printer as I am currently building a beast that is mostly aluminum plus style monster.


You are quite correct, this project got sidelined slightly as I discovered that PLA is not a suitable material for some of the parts, I have some PLA parts on my simple that I have had to redo in ABS as the started to "decompose".

Fortunatly in tbe design I had, the sensative parts are seperate, its mainly the motor mounts, and I think the problem is due to our high ambient temp here and the thermal cycling that the parts get from the motors heating up and cooling down.

"Decompose" is the only word I can use to describe it. The black PLA I was using turned a dark gray, with patches of lighter colour, and started to seperate along the layers, I will see if I can get a pic to illustrate this.

So I got diverted into RAMPS, heated beds, ABS and auto bed leveling. But now im back on track working on the self build machine again.

Im insanely jealous of John Lawrances design work, he seems to make the parts not only functional, but good looking too. Mine are more of the minecraft school of design. I work in Openscad as my main design tool, so its not so easy to be
"Artistic" about the designs.

I have my electronics for the new printer now, and finaly have all the parts needed, so I have no excuses at all not to get on with it.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby bres55 » 2014-May-Thu-03-May

Munson wrote:
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1398893814.105027.jpg
can someone help me out?I would like to know what are your outer measurements for the smooth rods on this build?I am trying to confirm if my new calibration is correct,my newest print was 1.5 mm short.Thanks


Mine is 77.5.

In my case I rotated ExtendYFront2013Fan.stl, 90degrees, about the z azis, this meant that even if they are not perfect, from a not perfect calibration, the rod distance between centres, will be the same size on all three pieces. The ExtendYRearClamp.stl, and ExtendYPlateRevC.stl are already in the same direction.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-May-Thu-10-May

Bres55,how did you rotate it?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby bres55 » 2014-May-Thu-13-May

I use Cura 14.03, select the model and options appear, to rotate, mirror and scale.
I moved over to Cura about a month ago, and found it to be more effective for me.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-May-Thu-15-May

Hi Jon,
Think I found the cause of the weird vertical lines I mentioned in another forum. They apear to be exactly where the infill connects to the outer wall. Increase the amount of infill and the number of lines increase as the infill connects to the outer perimeters. Also the way they shift if a gap/hole or void is in the external perimeters, it would change the vertical lines with the shifted infill.
I believe it may have to do with the frame flex we discussed here. I ran a full speed test with a digital angle meter sitting on the bed. Normal, non motion angle of the bed and Y rods is 0.4 degrees slant forward. But printing, it would increase to 0.6-0.7 degrees!
To correct it, I mades a couple wedges that lock betweer the frames largest area of gap, right in front of the X motor mount. Since my printer is screwed down onto a board, this is a fixed height using the wedges and can't rock or sway (might be able to flex up?). The second thing I did was change the slicer setting of perimeters before infill. Now the infill gets laid down first and can't create those vertical lines on the perimeters of the prints.
The vertical banding along my x and y axis have all but disappeared! I really have to be looking for the flaw to even see a sign of it.
One of the added benefits of the wedges, I no longer have my front bed leveling screws tightened all the way down (where almost double what the rear ones were.) But I still have them tightened more than the rear.
I checked my z rods and the are straight compared to the z-y plate of this mod. No drop at all. The x rods are even and flat across the y depth as well (all 3 of mine). But the Y rods and the Y axis of the bed are off by exactly 0.4 degrees. (exact same you mentioned you had at the beginning of this mod). Both rods measured in front and behind the Y-Z plate and the bed all have the forward 0.4 degree slant. No noticeable play between the rods and bearings.
-1st question: Have you changed the Y-Z plate since the February version that would affect this? (using original Feb. Ver.) Is it possible to shim for this drop and where/how would I do this? It could be wear effect/stretching on the zip-ties (replacing soon). But I wanted to see if this had been adressed.
It's not listed as a problem, but I have bottomed out my front springs even though they have been upgraded to twice as long as the stock ones. Since the beds are so big and getting bigger all the time, the spring tension is really different in the front compared to the rear. It could cause shaking/vibration problems like I witnessed. I looked at a few other pics people posted of this mod and it looks like some may be tightening their front springs down while the rear is half as tight. I guess a quick fix would be to shim the bed springs to equal out the spring tension.
None of this has been shown to cause any problems, but I am always trying to improve my prints.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-May-Thu-15-May

EddB,
At one iteration of this YZ plate my bed was not square in the XY plane, so it printed a skewed part, which lead to the drooping rods. After correcting my machine alignment, the print was square and the rods were square. My bed is only 6" deep, but I don't see any noticeable droop. My front and rear springs are very close to the same. There is no place that I know to shim to correct droopy rods. (insert little blue pill pun here)

In the part, the bearing pockets are 90 degrees exactly. The bearing pockets themselves should reduce/eliminate the stretching zip-tie issue since there is fairly little force on them. Maybe some worn bearings, or undersize rod is causing the droop?

I would measure mine more precisely, but I don't have your fancy tools. :D

Ridges gone, great! I am on another printer upgrade mission at the moment, so I will get back to that one on another date.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-May-Thu-17-May

Bres55,Bro I still don't know how to flip an object in Cura but WOW !!! A 7 hour print reduced to 2.5???I am super happy I don't have to waste a Sunday watching my printer.Thanks a million!!
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby thawkins » 2014-May-Thu-17-May

Munson wrote:Bres55,Bro I still don't know how to flip an object in Cura but WOW !!! A 7 hour print reduced to 2.5???I am super happy I don't have to waste a Sunday watching my printer.Thanks a million!!


Click on the object in the 3d view, and a set of icons that look like hourglasses will appear in the bottom left corner, they will allow scaling, rotating and flipping of the selected object.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-May-Thu-18-May

Thanks,thawkins...and no your design does not look like minecraft,I have been removed from my tv and only hear the sounds of pick axes and swords with a lullaby melody that can only be drown out by my printer.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-May-Thu-20-May

Jon Lawrence wrote:EddB,

In the part, the bearing pockets are 90 degrees exactly. The bearing pockets themselves should reduce/eliminate the stretching zip-tie issue since there is fairly little force on them. Maybe some worn bearings, or undersize rod is causing the droop?


YZ-plate Is perfect 90 degrees to the Z poles, no problem there. Proper poles sizes and no play at all. I'm wondering if it's possible the twisting Y poles could be doing this 0.4 degree front slant. That is the only thing I notice is off. My top Y pole is not tight in the extruder carriage, so I keep getting a counter Clockwise turn on my Y rods with the weight of the extruder pulling the secure bottom rod in that direction.. (already put a screw mount like under the z rods, onto the carriage design, just haven't printed it yet.). Maybe it straightens and squares up as it's drawn backwards into the Y bearings and twists/slants as it extends?

Jon Lawrence wrote:I would measure mine more precisely, but I don't have your fancy tools. :D


Still using a bubble level to check for these problems and square everything, just using the digital to give you a number. Nothing beats old school! :-)

Jon Lawrence wrote:Ridges gone, great! I am on another printer upgrade mission at the moment, so I will get back to that one on another date.


No need to stop your newest design, just picking your and everyone's brains on this. I don't think it is causing any problems, but I hate my springs bottomed out like that. Here's the pic, before the wedges, Notice the mount screws on the left are tightened all the way down, rear one on the right has about half of spring compression and makes the bed level to the printhead. It's a lot closer now using the wedges under the frame. Still haven't verified it was a problem, but appears to print better and gives me peace of mind. Thinking out load, maybe the zip-tie placement could affect it. Maybe I tightened them down with the Y fully extended with a weight shift? It's still not bad over a 10 inch bed Y. Could be a lot worse.
IMG_20140430_205742.jpg
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby ThereWillBprints » 2014-May-Fri-05-May

Does your x axis support follow the angle of the stock bed? Seems to be the only thing that comes to mind. That or there is not enough weight balanced throughout the assembly
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby jwiede » 2014-May-Mon-19-May

Hmm, every single time I attempt to print "ExtendYFront2014AlExtruderRevC_pbSensor.STL", it fails as a giant hairball, either at the flat->vertical transition, or at ~66% point. I've tried on my Frankensimple using both Kisslicer+Repetier & Simplify3D to no avail. Likewise three separate attempts on a Makerbot Replicator 2 at work all failed (all attempts on either printer at 100% infill). The Makerbot ones were even printed off SD card, not directly from the computer, just to remove any computer issues from the equation, and still failed. And, of course, neither printer seems to have issues printing other similar-complexity stuff.

Jon, did you ever successfully print out that specific variant ("ExtendYFront2014AlExtruderRevC_pbSensor.STL")?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-May-Mon-21-May

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-May-Tue-08-May

Jwiede,Is that the one with the cross supports and the sensor up front?I just got my print off yesterday,not 100% infill.Why at 100%?the supports should keep it from flexing or warping.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-May-Tue-12-May

jwiede wrote:Jon, did you ever successfully print out that specific variant ("ExtendYFront2014AlExtruderRevC_pbSensor.STL")?

I have not printed that specific one since I do not have the aluminum extruder or the autolevel sensor. I have printed much more complex parts, so I wouldn't expect any issues.

I never print anything over 25% infill, and always use octagonal infill because this is the only infill that stacks every layer on top of the the previous to supply some structural support. The other infill patterns only cross every layer and print on top every other layer. They are not particularity structural in my opinion.

Any reason 100% infill?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-May-Tue-12-May

jwiede wrote:Jon, did you ever successfully print out that specific variant ("ExtendYFront2014AlExtruderRevC_pbSensor.STL")?

I have not printed that specific one since I do not have the aluminum extruder or the auto level sensor. I have printed much more complex parts, so I wouldn't expect any issues.

I never print anything over 25% infill, and always use octagonal infill because this is the only infill that stacks every layer on top of the the previous to supply some structural support. The other infill patterns only cross every layer and print on top every other layer. They are not particularity structural in my opinion.

Any reason 100% infill?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby jwiede » 2014-May-Tue-14-May

My reasoning behind 100% infill was as an attempt to retain stability as long as possible even after thermal degradation sets in (from hotend & extruder). I figured the more plastic in it, the longer before it got "floppy" due to heating.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-May-Tue-14-May

jwiede wrote:My reasoning behind 100% infill was as an attempt to retain stability as long as possible even after thermal degradation sets in (from hotend & extruder). I figured the more plastic in it, the longer before it got "floppy" due to heating.

Not a bad theory, and it may turn out to work better. In either case it shouldn't affect the ability to print the part.

My thought is your part failed due to an extruder/hot end issue. If your hot end is not able to keep up and starts to skip on, say the top flat solid fill surface, where the extrusion flow is the greatest. Then when more non-print moves start to happen the heat is able to recover and filament starts to flow again. By this time, maybe you have gained enough height the next layers do not adhere to the lower ones producing your spaghetti? Tough to tell without some more info (speeds, ceramic or cartridge Ubis, layer height, etc.).

My theory may not be valid due to the 100% infill, but thought I would share my thought process in any case.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby jwiede » 2014-May-Wed-12-May

Jon Lawrence wrote:My theory may not be valid due to the 100% infill, but thought I would share my thought process in any case.

Understood, and appreciated in any case. My home printer's currently "fully dissected" (I'm adding stepperdampers to X, Y, & Z). I can't really do anything about the print problems with that STL at the moment, at least until I get my printer put back together. Thanks, though.

At the moment, I already have a version of the "frontY" part printed that ought to work acceptably for now, and a separate piece printed to attach the probe slightly lower relative to the extruder/hotend (needed). I do plan to redo the extruder "deck" part in wood or metal eventually, to deal with thermal issues, but that's future work.

I realized none of my zip-ties were long enough to hold the bearings on both sides, so printed out 8 of the bearing blocks and bought a box of m3-40 screws to hold em. I believe I'm ready to complete the 300mm no-sag Y mod and get my printer up and running. I'll update with results shortly, presuming no further major issues arise.

(edit) Hmm, guess I'll have to wait for my m3-45 screws to arrive, m3-40's are flush with the bracket on the other side, no extra to put a nut on it. I can try reprinting the brackets with flex-PLA to see if the added give lets the m3-40s work, but you also might want to change the PDF diagram to m3-45's.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-May-Wed-14-May

jwiede wrote:
I realized none of my zip-ties were long enough to hold the bearings on both sides, so printed out 8 of the bearing blocks and bought a box of m3-40 screws to hold em. I believe I'm ready to complete the 300mm no-sag Y mod and get my printer up and running. I'll update with results shortly, presuming no further major issues arise.

You do have to use 2 of the smaller 18lbs zipties, zipped together as one. A total of 4 zipties to hold the bearing in one pocket on the front and one on the rear in each of the 4 corners of the Y-Z plate. You would normally use 2. I had to do it this way because longer zipties will not fit the diameter of the holes.
In this situation I prefer the nylon zipties since they will provide more tension and are less susceptible to wear than printed LM8UUBLOCK caps. Whichever way you prefer and works for you! You already got the screws.
Ed
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby jwiede » 2014-May-Wed-18-May

The printed LM8UUBlock caps turned out interesting in softPLA. They might even have enough give to allow me to get a nut on them using m3-40's, though they came out like stiff rubber, a bit firmer than I expected. If not, I've got enough zip-ties to try doubling in the way suggested, and if that doesn't work well, I'll receive my m3-45mm screws tomorrow. I think I have the bearing cap situation more or less covered, but thanks for the tip w.r.t. doubling zip-ties, that one didn't occur to me.

(edit) While they do offer flex, and might help with a different alignment issue because of that flex, they don't flex enough to give an m3-40 clearance for a nut on the end. OTOH, the m3-45s should address the issue of enough clearance to attach a nut.

Speaking of clearance issues, did anyone else have a hard time getting the Y endstop positioned properly in the "side notch" as shown in the diagram? I found it near impossible to get enough clearance to screw down the small endstop screws due to the odd shape of the "notch" where the endstop sits. I considered just putting it on the same side as the pulleys, but it looked like it would get in the way of the belt on that side.

BTW, Jon, you might want to change the shape of the plastic perimeter around where the Y endstop sits, to give builders more clearance to get at the endstop screws. Alternately, you could move the Y endstop screw holes further back so that builders can directly access the screws (I had to use pliers to turn the screws, not fun, nor was getting them seated in the first place). Just a suggestion, as is I found it very difficult to get the Y endstop screwed down per the diagram.
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Last edited by jwiede on 2014-May-Thu-14-May, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby jwiede » 2014-May-Thu-13-May

EddB wrote:You do have to use 2 of the smaller 18lbs zipties, zipped together as one. A total of 4 zipties to hold the bearing in one pocket on the front and one on the rear in each of the 4 corners of the Y-Z plate. You would normally use 2. I had to do it this way because longer zipties will not fit the diameter of the holes.

Ed, in the approach you describe above, are you running the zip-ties diagonally (forming an 'x' across the bearing) or conventionally (across the bearing perpendicular to the rod's motion)?

The latter would seem to require 4 doubled zip-ties per bearing set, and I couldn't get two zip-ties perpendicular through each hole, so had to resort to the corner-to-corner approach with the ties x-crossing across the bearings. Using the ties diagonally, having the ties across the bearings in an 'X', puts tension on them in an odd alignment here so they're noisy when the rods move -- maybe due to minor printing irregularities with my main Y block, who knows. Once my m3-45 screws arrive, I'll see if using the bearing blocks do a better job of holding the bearings in alignment such that rod movement is less noisy. Meanwhile, I'm ordering another set of LM8UU's as well, in case these are just noisy by nature.

Thanks again for the tip on the doubled zip-ties, hadn't occurred to me to use them that way!
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby zero10 » 2014-May-Thu-14-May

jwiede wrote:The printed LM8UUBlock caps turned out interesting in softPLA. They might even have enough give to allow me to get a nut on them using m3-40's, though they came out like stiff rubber, a bit firmer than I expected. If not, I've got enough zip-ties to try doubling in the way suggested, and if that doesn't work well, I'll receive my m3-45mm screws tomorrow. I think I have the bearing cap situation more or less covered, but thanks for the tip w.r.t. doubling zip-ties, that one didn't occur to me.

(edit) While they do offer flex, and might help with a different alignment issue because of that flex, they don't flex enough to give an m3-40 clearance for a nut on the end. OTOH, the m3-45s should address the issue of enough clearance to attach a nut.

Speaking of clearance issues, did anyone else have a hard time getting the Y endstop positioned properly in the "side notch" as shown in the diagram? I found it near impossible to get enough clearance to screw down the small endstop screws due to the odd shape of the "notch" where the endstop sits. I considered just putting it on the same side as the pulleys, but it looked like it would get in the way of the belt on that side.

BTW, Jon, you might want to change the shape of the plastic perimeter around where the Y endstop sits, to give builders more clearance to get at the endstop screws. Alternately, you could move the Y endstop screw holes further back so that builders can directly access the screws (I had to use pliers to turn the screws, not fun, nor was getting them seated in the first place). Just a suggestion, as is I found it very difficult to get the Y endstop screwed down per the diagram.

I found it nearly impossible to fasten those screws. I had to start them both at an angle, drive them in a little ways then turn them a fraction of a turn at a time with needle nose pliers until they were tight. Not my idea of fun but that end stop is on there and rather than remove it I'll just buy another one if I need to move things around :D
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-May-Thu-15-May

jwiede wrote:
EddB wrote:You do have to use 2 of the smaller 18lbs zipties, zipped together as one. A total of 4 zipties to hold the bearing in one pocket on the front and one on the rear in each of the 4 corners of the Y-Z plate. You would normally use 2. I had to do it this way because longer zipties will not fit the diameter of the holes.

Ed, in the approach you describe above, are you running the zip-ties diagonally (forming an 'x' across the bearing) or conventionally (across the bearing perpendicular to the rod's motion)?

The latter would seem to require 4 doubled zip-ties per bearing set, and I couldn't get two zip-ties perpendicular through each hole, so had to resort to the corner-to-corner approach with the ties x-crossing across the bearings. Using the ties diagonally, having the ties across the bearings in an 'X', puts tension on them in an odd alignment here so they're noisy when the rods move -- maybe due to minor printing irregularities with my main Y block, who knows. Once my m3-45 screws arrive, I'll see if using the bearing blocks do a better job of holding the bearings in alignment such that rod movement is less noisy. Meanwhile, I'm ordering another set of LM8UU's as well, in case these are just noisy by nature.

Thanks again for the tip on the doubled zip-ties, hadn't occurred to me to use them that way!


The x is what I am doing, but I also follow the rule of thumb: assemble all the zipties loosely and only when they are installed on both the x and y rods *AND* the Y assembly is complete and secure, do I tighten them down. If you tighten them down without the rods/printer parts installed, they will shift to any position. If your Y is assembled with the new setup and the z is secure, then both sets of bearings will tighten down to the exact alignment of the rods as they will be used. (not only for these plastic upgrades, but the original wood parts as well, tightening the bearings down without them on the rods/machine will easily cause alignment problems)
Install all the bearings with the zipties installed loosely, test movement on the z and y rods continually as you tighten the zipties in an x fashion. It helps if you have a zipties tool to get in the tight holes. Tightening the bearing zipties are the last step I do for the hardware, before adjusting bed height and software config.
Final tip, make sure the z and y rods are straight, without a twist and bearings move easily on both axis before final tension on the zipties.
Ed.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-May-Thu-15-May

I use 3 small zip ties connected to secure each adjacent set of bearings. I'll try to take pics of it when I get home
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-May-Thu-18-May

Yeah, the screw placements are a bit of a pain for the Y axis endstop.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby jwiede » 2014-May-Thu-18-May

zero10 wrote:I found it nearly impossible to fasten those screws. I had to start them both at an angle, drive them in a little ways then turn them a fraction of a turn at a time with needle nose pliers until they were tight. Not my idea of fun but that end stop is on there and rather than remove it I'll just buy another one if I need to move things around :D

Yep, that's exactly how I did mine as well, it was quite a pain point, and yeah, I'll probably replace the endstop rather than try getting it off of there again. That pain is exactly why I suggested to Jon that he might want to rearrange the plastic so builders could get direct screwdriver access to the Y endstop screws from "above", it'd make that part a LOT less painful to assemble.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby jwiede » 2014-May-Thu-19-May

EddB wrote:The x is what I am doing, but I also follow the rule of thumb: assemble all the zipties loosely and only when they are installed on both the x and y rods *AND* the Y assembly is complete and secure, do I tighten them down.

Understood, I didn't fully tighten them until the rods were assembled and placed as well, but even then the zip-ties seem to put slight angular tension on the bearings enough that they make a bit of noise when the Y rods slide through (the X rods don't make any noise, however). As I said, it could be something as simple as slight irregularities from my printing of the Y motor block, but I'm still interested to see if bearing blocks and screws/nuts help with the bearing noise. I've noticed that Printrbot-provided LM8UU bearings are some of the noisier ones I've encountered, as well, so I might also try a different set of bearings. Will report back with results.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-May-Thu-21-May

jwiede wrote:
zero10 wrote:I found it nearly impossible to fasten those screws. I had to start them both at an angle, drive them in a little ways then turn them a fraction of a turn at a time with needle nose pliers until they were tight. Not my idea of fun but that end stop is on there and rather than remove it I'll just buy another one if I need to move things around :D

Yep, that's exactly how I did mine as well, it was quite a pain point, and yeah, I'll probably replace the endstop rather than try getting it off of there again. That pain is exactly why I suggested to Jon that he might want to rearrange the plastic so builders could get direct screwdriver access to the Y endstop screws from "above", it'd make that part a LOT less painful to assemble.

I did think about moving it backward a bit so it sticks out the back and the screws are easy to access, but that would push the plate outside the 100mm print envelope requirement. I'll look to see if, at the very least, I could provide a couple clearance holes inline with the screws for a wrench to pass thru, behind the Z stop mount.

I'm currently on a new design at the moment which always seems to take priority over corrections and edits, but I will see if I can review the YZ plate. New stuff is way more fun...
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby jwiede » 2014-May-Fri-21-May

Jon Lawrence wrote:I did think about moving it backward a bit so it sticks out the back and the screws are easy to access, but that would push the plate outside the 100mm print envelope requirement.

Hmm, is that really an important constraint anymore? Modern metal Simples are 6"x6" beds, and this particular mod doesn't seem likely to be someone's "first mod" project -- either of the GT2 belt projects would be far better in that regard. Past those first mods, I'd think most wood Simple owners have already got >100mm print dimension in at least X or Y, wouldn't you?

Still, if you consider that an important constraint, couldn't you move the piece blocking screw access in -Y (using axis positioning as if motor block were already in use, so moving from outer edge towards centerline along Y axis)? Does that make any sense?

Again, just thinking out loud, feel free to ignore.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-May-Sat-13-May

Good point about the 100mm. I will add it to the "to do" list.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-May-Sat-14-May

Hey Jon,
You should consider adding the file in this message to your official plans for the "300mm no sag Y" on Thingiverse. I was helping someone out who had a problem installing the upgrade since his rods where a little too loose in the parts and he kept getting a twist. I knew the "extended rear clamp" existed, since I have used it a couple times, but neither of us could find it till I started searching the forum.
Anyhow, it stopped his twist and I think it would help others if it were an option on the official thingiverse project. I think it is way better than the other two friction fit!
Just my 2 cents... I absolutely love it either way!
Ed

Edit: picture doesn't show up in a quote, so here is a link to your original post with that file and picture. viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6306&hilit=300+no+sag&start=100#p44765

Jon Lawrence wrote:I just sketched this up as a working model to eliminate the ability of the rods to twist inside the end blocks, thus eliminating the twisting of the rods. Just finished drawing it before checking this morning so I have not printed or tested it yet.
It should work for you.

The lower pocket has an end cap to stop the rod from going all the way thru.
The bolts shown are M3x16

ExtendYRearClamp.STL

ExtendYRearClamp.JPG
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby greenb » 2014-May-Sat-16-May

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:242185

2014-04-07: Uploaded a version of the rear end that allows the use of identical length rods. With this rear end the rod lengths need to be at least 175mm longer than your desired stroke.


I found it right right away. Did I answer your question, or did I just confuse myself?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-May-Sun-00-May

greenb wrote:http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:242185
I found it right right away. Did I answer your question, or did I just confuse myself?


That wasn't in reply to me was it? The one I am talking about actually has bolts that allow the rear clap, to bolt down on both bars, preventing them twisting at all. Not part of the official thingiverse project. Jon posted it here to the forum, the message I quoted. Still available for download there.
It will work in place of either of the two included in the thingiverse project. It was designed after the piece you described and works better at preventing twist.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-May-Sun-12-May

EddB wrote:Hey Jon,
You should consider adding the file in this message to your official plans for the "300mm no sag Y" on Thingiverse.

Done.

I thought I had done that already, but guess I overlooked it. Thanks for the catch.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby jwiede » 2014-May-Mon-20-May

BTW, as it turns out, making the bearing brackets out of softPLA seems to have notably reduced the overall noise from the bearings (compared to x-crossed zip-ties, anyway). They wind up feeling like they're made of hard rubber (matterhackers.com, 1.75mm softPLA Blue), not as much give/flex as I'd expected, but enough to apparently absorb quite a bit of the noise transfer/vibration from the bearings versus x-crossed zip-ties.

That said, I discovered that one set of bearings is nigh-all impossible to fasten with bearing brackets and screws, however (the ones closest to that same "traffic jam" that makes the Y endstop screws inaccessible). I had to use three sets with brackets and screws, and the fourth set using x-crossed zip-ties, but still much less noise than from all four using x-crossed zip-ties. Not bad for my first practical usage of flexible PLA, seems to have been a good application choice.

(edit) Had a thought on the Y endstop issue. Instead of directly mounting it to the YZ "plate", perhaps put a screw hole or two on the outside edge and then have an L-shaped bracket where the endstop attaches, and that bracket attaches to the screw holes on the outside. Such an arrangement would also allow a place to zip-tie or wrap the Y endstop wires so they aren't constantly flexing directly at the soldered terminals (my Y endstop had a wire break loose from precisely that kind of flexing).
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby danman78 » 2014-May-Sat-07-May

So I am starting to notice some twist in the from extruder mount. Due in part to prolonged wear and tare. There needs to be more surface area of the ROD in contact with the extruder mount. I really think this is where that twist is coming from... even adding the ROD clams might help.... How do yo do that you ask...?? there is not enough room you ask...

EUREKA!!! JON, take a look at how the extruder mounts on the Simple Metal!!! If we rotate the extruder motor 90 degrees we cold get the top and bottom rods the same length... perhaps building in clamps to both ends... rear and front...I would imagine that putting clamps on both ends is the best all round solution to any twist. Also we can increase the amount of ROD that goes into the extruder mount increasing stability. The motor cold really face the either way. i think I'm on to something.
This could also make room for the new leveler...!!...

simple-blk-extruder.png

maxresdefault.jpg


What do you think!!


??
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-May-Sun-14-May

danman78 wrote:So I am starting to notice some twist in the from extruder mount. Due in part to prolonged wear and tare. There needs to be more surface area of the ROD in contact with the extruder mount. I really think this is where that twist is coming from... even adding the ROD clams might help.... How do yo do that you ask...?? there is not enough room you ask...

EUREKA!!! JON, take a look at how the extruder mounts on the Simple Metal!!! If we rotate the extruder motor 90 degrees we cold get the top and bottom rods the same length... perhaps building in clamps to both ends... rear and front...I would imagine that putting clamps on both ends is the best all round solution to any twist. Also we can increase the amount of ROD that goes into the extruder mount increasing stability. The motor cold really face the either way. i think I'm on to something.
This could also make room for the new leveler...!!...

What do you think!!

I think it sounds like a good idea on the surface.

Looking at my machine it looks like there may be a conflict with the Y motor when completely retracted.

Second thought, I am not happy with the current location of the center of mass for the Y axis. It is not being aligned with the drive belt. This causes the head to twist and jump at higher accelerations. Moving the motor further away from the drive belt will increase this effect.

I guess I would say from a space perspective it works well. From a dynamic perspective it is more challenging on our Simple. The metal version has larger rods and bearings.

I am wrapped up in another project at the moment. Maybe once I get my head cleared, and am more adventurous, my perspective may change. :)
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby danman78 » 2014-May-Sun-14-May

I get what your saying.. about the Y motor. I was envisioning perhaps facing the extruder towards the motor.. aslo, if you see my rig, I have a lot of other crap hanging off the extruder mount causing other potential issues with balance. In the future, I was noticing the increased size in bearings and rods too.. and was considering how that may help us with stability. I know some talk was going around about redesigning the base if so.. increasing the rod diameter and bearings like they did on the metal would obviously suit us in adding so much more build space. Thanks for all your help. hope the other project is a fun one...
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-May-Sun-23-May

I had a loose fitting upper rod in the front extruder Carriage. I added an open bolt clamp to the design and now it clamps to the front upper rod. It would be nice with a secod bolt and more contact to tbe upper rod. (bottom one fits so tight, i'll never get it removed.
There is a twist to the rods since the motor/extruder is off center, causing an CCW force against the rods. If the motor and extruder where placed inline with the rods, it would remove that stress. Or someone could mount a second extruder/motor opposite of tbe current setup and they would cancel out each other... Just a thought...
Ed
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Dabhaidh » 2014-May-Mon-06-May

EddB could you please upload the STL file for your front extruder Carriage with the bolt clamp.

Thanks :D
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-May-Mon-08-May

EddB, Nice clamp for the rod!Was that something you designed? I broke 2 frames trying to hammer the rods in.I gave up and krazy glued the rod to the plastic.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-May-Mon-12-May

Munson wrote:EddB, Nice clamp for the rod!Was that something you designed? I broke 2 frames trying to hammer the rods in.I gave up and krazy glued the rod to the plastic.


Ya gotta drill em out a bit before you shove the rods in.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Skrotus » 2014-May-Mon-20-May

would it be difficult to lower the extruder relative to the y arm? I bought a hexagon hotend and it's too short to reach the bed, I need it 13.5mm lower
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby orangefurball » 2014-May-Wed-23-May

Some Printr Noob wrote:
Munson wrote:EddB, Nice clamp for the rod!Was that something you designed? I broke 2 frames trying to hammer the rods in.I gave up and krazy glued the rod to the plastic.


Ya gotta drill em out a bit before you shove the rods in.

For mine, I took an extra rod and heated it up with a lighter. Then I wiggled it straight into the hole. It melted right through and left a perfectly sized hole.

Make sure you have gloves on because a metal rod will conduct heat right to your hand (I feel it needs to be stated even though its extremely obvious.)
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-May-Thu-16-May

Finally received my proximity sensor.Can any one tell me the color code match?blue negative pin on bottom?black center pin?brown top pin?thanks!!
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby chase » 2014-May-Thu-20-May

Hi, will there ever be a way to mount the auto leveling probe? I would love to have it but also this mod aswell! decisions, decisions.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby chase » 2014-May-Thu-20-May

also, how do the wires stretch all 300mm? do i need to extend them somehow?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby orangefurball » 2014-May-Thu-22-May

chase wrote:also, how do the wires stretch all 300mm? do i need to extend them somehow?


I'm not running a 300mm length, however I did need to extend my wires for a Z upgrade I did a little while ago. I had to use these

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00JUL60W ... mp_s_a_1_1

Its the cheapest way to go I believe without buying completely new cables. You can also manually extend them using a soldering iron and some wiring. For the extruder motor and Y motor, you can use a single lane internal USB 2.0 male to female header extension wire. The dimensions match the motor wiring setup perfectly. I didn't have long enough ones laying around for my mom though.

Good luck!
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby REPRAP SQUAD » 2014-May-Sat-11-May

If the wiring doesn't reach the full extensions of each direction, they will have to be extended. You can either buy extension cables or solder/shrink wrap with new cabling. Just make sure you use wire that is multi strand and that it's the same or better gauge wiring.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby ThereWillBprints » 2014-May-Wed-00-May

chase wrote:also, how do the wires stretch all 300mm? do i need to extend them somehow?

I got mine from @printrbotships on twitter and they were really quick.

Also if the extruder motor faces out you may get prints angled from all the movements.

Also I am getting Carbon Fiber PLA from printedsolid.com so I am going to try the actual Y section as soon as it comes in.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby chase » 2014-May-Fri-17-May

REPRAP SQUAD wrote:If the wiring doesn't reach the full extensions of each direction, they will have to be extended. You can either buy extension cables or solder/shrink wrap with new cabling. Just make sure you use wire that is multi strand and that it's the same or better gauge wiring.



ThereWillBprints wrote:
chase wrote:also, how do the wires stretch all 300mm? do i need to extend them somehow?

I got mine from @printrbotships on twitter and they were really quick.

Also if the extruder motor faces out you may get prints angled from all the movements.

Also I am getting Carbon Fiber PLA from printedsolid.com so I am going to try the actual Y section as soon as it comes in.



Okay, thanks! How can I tell what gauge the wire I am buying is, and what gauge the printrbot wiring is? Is that link that was posted earlier good enough for everything? Including the hot end and motors?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby jwiede » 2014-Jun-Mon-14-Jun

EddB wrote:I had a loose fitting upper rod in the front extruder Carriage. I added an open bolt clamp to the design and now it clamps to the front upper rod.

EddB, did this design get uploaded anywhere? If not, could you please do so? I'd like to give it a try.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-Jun-Thu-17-Jun

Orangefurball,I tried your suggestion.For 4 bucks it is so worth it.I have not tried with the printrboard but in ramps it fits snug.GREAT SUGGESTION.The only issue I see is the connections on the endstops are tight and the motor wires are somewhat loose unless the pins are bent.If I can solder the leads so I can have a good connection at the board than I am happy
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby REPRAP SQUAD » 2014-Jun-Thu-17-Jun

Most wiring will have the gauge written on the side. Typically I think most use around 22 gauge but I use about 18 gauge for the majority of my wiring. Just make sure it's multi Strand wiring. You can also look up gauge ratings by amperage.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby danman78 » 2014-Jun-Fri-19-Jun

I was having the same issue with my Top rod slipping and even twisting at times. I came up with a similar solution by adding two mounting holes and building a separate part as a clamp that screws in...I am using a new material called "bridge" which is a pretty strong flexible nylon. it is too flexible to build the entire part of what is really amazing material for building things like clamps or anything that is going to be load bearing that can flex. I decided to use that as a separate part to clamp it down this allows me to add considerable force to the clamp and I have to tell you this thing does not move at all. PLA and ABS have a tendency to be a little slick this bridge material is almost more rubbery so when I clamped down it does provide more friction and then using the other materials. I considered making a triangular piece that connects to the bottom rod and the far side of the y-axis mount. The other option that I mentioned to Jon as a possible solution would be to rotate the extruder motor 90 degrees like this: melted on the metal version of the simple. This would allow the rods to be extended through like it is on the bottom.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby jwiede » 2014-Jun-Wed-13-Jun

Danman78, I like the clamp design, what temp. were you using to print Bridge? Did you get a bunch of stringing? Kind of has me wondering if flexible PLA would serve a similar role.

BTW, the little heat sink by itself on top of the extruder motor is cute, reminds me of the Grinch's dog trying to haul the sleigh. ;)
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Ari_Porad » 2014-Jun-Sat-17-Jun

Hey Jon, do you know when the mods will be compatible with the new simple? I can't wait to install them. Also, since I know there is a long back order, are there any measurements that I can take for you?

Thanks,
Ari
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Jun-Sun-20-Jun

The spacing between the rods on the new simple are completely different. The mods will have to be reworked for them to be compatible.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby greenb » 2014-Jun-Sun-22-Jun

Image
Image
Image

The distance between the Y-axis appears to be the same, here is another picture to further illustrate this. I was trying to demonstrate that the distance between the Z-axis rods is different.

Image
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Threefer3 » 2014-Jun-Sun-22-Jun

I have the new wood parts modeled which reflect the changes in rod spacing. I have a step file in the following post with all the parts assembled. http://www.printrbottalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=49511#p49511
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Tue-20-Jun

Ari_Porad wrote:Hey Jon, do you know when the mods will be compatible with the new simple? I can't wait to install them. Also, since I know there is a long back order, are there any measurements that I can take for you?

Thanks,
Ari

I have all the parts, just need the time.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Bellus » 2014-Jun-Tue-20-Jun

Jon Lawrence wrote:
Ari_Porad wrote:Hey Jon, do you know when the mods will be compatible with the new simple? I can't wait to install them. Also, since I know there is a long back order, are there any measurements that I can take for you?

Thanks,
Ari

I have all the parts, just need the time.




I have already completed the X double precision, and I am just waiting on some belt for Y portion. Would you happen to have a rough guesstimate of the amount of belt needed if you decided to carry over your current mod? Debating on holding off, unfortunately I haven't thought ahead until now about not the cutting the belt, so I have quite a few shorter pieces of belt laying around. I want to complete the current Y mod but don't want to cut anymore belt. Thankfully I don't have much free time or I would be itching to install the upgrade kit as well.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby cris11368 » 2014-Jun-Wed-11-Jun

thawkins wrote:
REPRAP SQUAD wrote:If I remember correctly thawkins doesn't have the smarttrap. Thats his own creation that is similar. How do you like the one you built pictured. I've been debating building a small printer as I am currently building a beast that is mostly aluminum plus style monster.


You are quite correct, this project got sidelined slightly as I discovered that PLA is not a suitable material for some of the parts, I have some PLA parts on my simple that I have had to redo in ABS as the started to "decompose".

Fortunatly in tbe design I had, the sensative parts are seperate, its mainly the motor mounts, and I think the problem is due to our high ambient temp here and the thermal cycling that the parts get from the motors heating up and cooling down.

"Decompose" is the only word I can use to describe it. The black PLA I was using turned a dark gray, with patches of lighter colour, and started to seperate along the layers, I will see if I can get a pic to illustrate this.

So I got diverted into RAMPS, heated beds, ABS and auto bed leveling. But now im back on track working on the self build machine again.

Im insanely jealous of John Lawrances design work, he seems to make the parts not only functional, but good looking too. Mine are more of the minecraft school of design. I work in Openscad as my main design tool, so its not so easy to be
"Artistic" about the designs.

I have my electronics for the new printer now, and finaly have all the parts needed, so I have no excuses at all not to get on with it.


Any progress on how your Photon Printer is coming along? The design looks great and I'd be interested in printing one up.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Wed-11-Jun

Here is a Y plate that should fit on the 70mm Z rod spacing of the 1405 Simple. I just moved the front bearings forward 5mm, all other dimensions are the same so the existing Y design will slide right in.

Does the Y end stop really activate off the back of the extruder motor, or am I seeing something? In any case, I duplicated the switch mounting location. This PRELIMINARY version has both front and rear mounting locations available for the Y end stop. I haven't built the 1405 yet, so try at your own risk :D

ExtendYPlate1405_2014-06-18.STL
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jun-Wed-12-Jun

Jon. Did you notice if the z rod location relative to the threaded rod is also different?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Wed-12-Jun

evanalmighty wrote:Jon. Did you notice if the z rod location relative to the threaded rod is also different?

The Z motor (and ACME screw) are placed in the the same location relative to the REAR smooth Z rod. The front rod moved forward 5mm, so this is how I modified my plate. I was lazy and left the Y motor where it was, so it is now a little offset to the back.

Funny, now the Y rods are spaced 70mm. Exactly the same spacing as my 300mm No Sag... Theoretically you can slide the 300mm no sag right onto the 1405 YZ plate. The belt will be off a bit so you will also have to shim the bearings, but certainly do-able if you don't want to print a YZ plate. Of course, you will not get the rigidity of the 300 No Sag bearing configuration.

Thank you Threefer3 for the model, saved me a lot of time.

Simple1405-300NoSag-Example.JPG
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jun-Wed-13-Jun

Awesome. Good to know. Visually it threw me off, but I never bothered to check.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Wed-19-Jun

Jon Lawrence wrote:Does the Y end stop really activate off the back of the extruder motor, or am I seeing something? In any case, I duplicated the switch mounting location. This PRELIMINARY version has both front and rear mounting locations available for the Y end stop. I haven't built the 1405 yet, so try at your own risk :D


indeed it does
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Bellus » 2014-Jun-Wed-19-Jun

Jon Lawrence wrote:Here is a Y plate that should fit on the 70mm Z rod spacing of the 1405 Simple. I just moved the front bearings forward 5mm, all other dimensions are the same so the existing Y design will slide right in.

Does the Y end stop really activate off the back of the extruder motor, or am I seeing something? In any case, I duplicated the switch mounting location. This PRELIMINARY version has both front and rear mounting locations available for the Y end stop. I haven't built the 1405 yet, so try at your own risk :D

ExtendYPlate1405_2014-06-18.STL




Printed one out, with out installing it, everything appears well. Mocked up the Z rods and they are centered on the bearing seats.
Image

Also fitted the piece for the Y double precision and that appears to fit as it should also. ImageImage

I would install it to try it out, but I don't want to lose the X double precision and I really want to finish the Y portion tonight first.

From what I see it's good.
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Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-Jun-Wed-20-Jun

You are moving too fast for me Jon,thanks again!!This should be moved over so it won't be confused with the old model.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Thu-07-Jun

Munson wrote:You are moving too fast for me Jon,thanks again!!This should be moved over so it won't be confused with the old model.

Good point. I will start a new thread.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Thu-13-Jun

Jon Lawrence wrote:
Munson wrote:You are moving too fast for me Jon,thanks again!!This should be moved over so it won't be confused with the old model.

Good point. I will start a new thread.

New thread for the New New Makers Simple 1405 version: viewtopic.php?f=113&t=7647
Any discussion of the previous version should be kept here.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Jun-Wed-07-Jun

Anyone got some comparison pictures between regular gt2 and double precision? I'm thinking with my new makers upgrade kit of going with the double precision.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Jun-Sun-21-Jun

New pics of modded printrbot simple. Just got autolevel going too!
Still trying to figure out what to do with mess of wires.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Mon-09-Jun

dmaxx67 wrote:New pics of modded printrbot simple. Just got autolevel going too!
Still trying to figure out what to do with mess of wires.

Very nice build. Wiring is always a pain.
What firmware did you end up with for the RAMPS and 2014 w/autolevel?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Jun-Mon-11-Jun

Marlin, its super simple to tweak.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Mon-11-Jun

dmaxx67 wrote:Marlin, its super simple to tweak.

Was looking more for what specific branch of Marlin. There many, many different variants.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jun-Mon-12-Jun

Jon. This is the one I used: https://github.com/ErikZalm/Marlin

Auto leveling is built in, you just have to enable it in config.h
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Jun-Mon-20-Jun

Thought I posted; dunno what happened to that post.

2014 simple; Both X and Y have been working quite reliably. I have noticed that the belt wants to slip off the bearing on the Y axis when the Y is maxed out(hotend is closest to the printrboard). I've had to put spacers so that they don't fall out.

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Mon-20-Jun

evanalmighty wrote:Jon. This is the one I used: https://github.com/ErikZalm/Marlin

Auto leveling is built in, you just have to enable it in config.h

Thanks. Just getting my feet wet on the new board while trying to design/build the 1405 at the same time. Slow going, but steadily moving forward.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Jun-Mon-20-Jun

Sorry Jon yea I'm using same as Evan.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Jul-Mon-20-Jul

I've encountered some Z wobble, and I think it's probably because of my longer MCMaster-Carr threaded rod. I'm probably going to revert back to the short printrbot rod and see how things fare. Doing some more research about eliminating Z wobble, I came across this part:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:33053

Having a cyclone-like cutout would help a lot. I had some very minor Z ribbing problems before I upgraded my Simple. Perhaps something similar could be implemented to eliminate Z ribbing and allow for higher quality prints?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jul-Tue-15-Jul

Some Printr Noob wrote:I've encountered some Z wobble, and I think it's probably because of my longer MCMaster-Carr threaded rod. I'm probably going to revert back to the short printrbot rod and see how things fare. Doing some more research about eliminating Z wobble, I came across this part:

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:33053

Having a cyclone-like cutout would help a lot. I had some very minor Z ribbing problems before I upgraded my Simple. Perhaps something similar could be implemented to eliminate Z ribbing and allow for higher quality prints?

I use a McMaster Carr rod too and dont experience wobble
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby thawkins » 2014-Aug-Thu-22-Aug

@john
Can you post a summary of where the current crop of design files for the x and y mods are. I have a very very modified 2013 simple, i would like to get updated, i have the x mod, and a very early y mod. I have not been following the conversation.

Note for those without the alu extruder, there is a printable version, which if printed in ABS would probaly workout fine. It could also be easily hacked to fix other hotends.

See: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:281015
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Aug-Mon-10-Aug

thawkins wrote:@Jon
Can you post a summary of where the current crop of design files for the x and y mods are. I have a very very modified 2013 simple, i would like to get updated, i have the x mod, and a very early y mod. I have not been following the conversation.


You probably aren't too far off. The only recent activity has been to add double precision to the X and Y, then adapt to the 1405 model.

Here are some links.
Single Precision Y: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:242185
Double Precision Y: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:344822
Extruder: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:344748
Single Precision X: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:257841
Double Precision X: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:344678
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby nevets » 2014-Aug-Mon-11-Aug

I just recently upgraded to the y300 double precicion and my question is how do I eactly figure out the steps needed to calibrate it properly? thanks steve
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Aug-Mon-11-Aug

nevets wrote:I just recently upgraded to the y300 double precicion and my question is how do I eactly figure out the steps needed to calibrate it properly? thanks steve

Short answer, double what it was before. The double precision is exactly 2x the number of steps/mm.

If you have a 20 tooth GT2 pulley then it will be 160 steps/mm unless you have hacked your Printrboard to change the microstep rate.
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