Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

[Jon Lawrence]

After viewing kungfuroy’s modified simple , I was inspired to stretch my Y axis just enough to utilize a 6”x6” heat bed. I liked the clean look of eliminating all that wood, but was concerned about the stability. We had a snow day last week and I was stuck in the house all day. With the down time, I drew up a design that eliminated the wooden structure, replaced the Y/Z plate, separated the linear bearings for greater stability, eliminated the tie-wraps, fully supported the bearings, incorporated the GT2 belt drive, and worked with my stock extruder.

I only have 6”x6” heat bed to work with for a print surface, so I started the design working toward a 6” (150mm) Y-travel. The only 8mm rod I had on hand was a 36” length. Not wanting to end up with a short end of wasted 8mm rod, I split the rod and ended up with a 12” stroke (300mm) possible. Why not go for broke!

I was stunned at how stable the new Y/Z axis is. Even at full extension I cannot feel any wiggle. If I run the Z down into the print bed (oops), the extruder will compress the print bed springs (at 150mm extension).

While checking the bearing alignment I set the new axis on top of the stock simple axis. It dropped right on.
YAxisCompare.JPG
YAxis.JPG
YZAxis.JPG

[EddB]

Incredible! I read on printrbot that there is a .8 degree slant on the y plate bearing mounts to compensate for the sag. (in a reply from Brooke, haven't run across it in a while or I would reference it.) Did you add these to your plate as well?
I am using the xl tower/volume upgrade and I have an 8x8 heatbed I have been wanting to use. So something like this would be perfect to make full use of it!
Have you tested it for sag? I have a magnetic/digital angle meter that would be perfect for measuring this. (used to test table saw blade angles mostly.)
Ed

[reepete1]

A really nice design. That is what I have aimed for to build myself, perhaps not a full 12" but bigger then the XL version. But I going to try ti use printed nylon bearings instead of thoses noisy ballbearings that cane with the simple stock version.

Any chance we could have the files for that design??

/Pontus

[Jon Lawrence]

[Jon Lawrence]

[nalby]

This is exactly what I've been looking for, I have been wanting to make a heated 8x8 bed and not have any sag. Thanks great job I can't wait to start printing the parts

[Jon Lawrence]

[nalby]

Great. Could you tell me what size rods I would need for an 8x8 heated bed with your gt2 x-bed mod. I would like to order some but not have to much waste.


Thanks Jim

[Lemm]

hey

I have done this on my jr v1 too but I had to stabelize the whole printer to prevent a flip over of the x axis. Also on faster prints with fully extended Y the Z rods begins to swing. Have you tested this on your mod ?
viewtopic.php?f=89&t=1846&p=39871#p39871

[Jon Lawrence]

[Jon Lawrence]

[EddB]

[Jon Lawrence]

[EddB]

[Jon Lawrence]

[ahaer]

The bearing support part looks awesome! How long does that bad boy take to print?

[thawkins]

[Jon Lawrence]

[Jon Lawrence]

[kungfuroy]

Mr Lawrence this looks great!
I was juggling an idea in my head for a bracket that would keep all the rods square to each other but looks like your ZY plate saves me from that mess:)

[Jon Lawrence]

[EddB]

I've been having no luck with a filament change. Don't know why but this sparkly stuff does not play nice with my printer at all! Tried 3 time to print the YZ plate and still having problems with it being stringy. Finally switched to a black filament and my default config and it is back to printing normal. First experience with a filament that actually altered my prints so drastically!
Anyhow, this last print was the closest I got to a working one with the odd filament. Except one thing strikes me odd about the model. If you look closely you will notice that one bearing mount sockets on the front as well as one on the back are not sunk in as I would expect (round bearing in a round hole... This is a square socket not half as deep as I would expect it to be.)
I can't figure it out. It wouldn't be a print error, not on the top and one on the underside (not sag and fill error on same print, or to that extreme. ) and they are in different areas, so not related. They are 90 degrees to each other, so it's not an alignment error. You can see the fill seperation.. This is how slicer saw the model. Here's a closup of the top one on the right. Notice the hole is not sunk in or round.
1392171658276.jpg

Directly to the left, then flip it over is the one on the reverse. The infill pattern seperation really shows that slicer saw the model like this.

1392171901846.jpg

They are about half the depth (from the edge) as all the others. They are not half round, just flat. So the bearing would sit half as deep.
I haven't tried it, so it may be designed this way and actually be in line for the mount. Is it correct? It just doesn't look right to me but if it's an error, I would have no idea what to look for!
Ed

[nalby]

What material are you printing with pla or abs. I only can do pla at the moment and was wondering if the extruder motor would get to hot for the front mount.

[Jon Lawrence]

[Jon Lawrence]

[Jon Lawrence]

I assembled the "hourglass" version today. Don't see any difference, but then again I am printing with a heated bed and on glass and have a extremely flat bottom part. Not sure if this version will help anybody, but I will leave it up on here if anybody wants to try. I did edit the previous post and corrected a mis-dimensioned bearing cavity found during assembly today.

One other point:
The alignment between the rods and the bearings is set by your printer. If the spacing is not exact, the rods can bind the bearings. I printed my ends on my old MXL belt drive system, and the new "hourglass" Y/Z plate on the 1st generation GT2 belt Y/Z plate. There must have been a slight calibration difference between the two because now there is a slight misalignment at the end of the stroke where the bearings get a little tight. I will work on a version 3 to accommodate this potential issue.

Stay tuned...

[kungfuroy]

I started assembling this tonight, but ran out of the proper fasteners. Looks great so far!
I did do one modification though on the Y rear, I bored through the top hole. I didnt want to have 2 different length rods if I later decided to tear it down. Doesnt look like it would affect the movement, but time will tell.

[nalby]

Here's what you get for 4 hours and a 1 second power outage

[Jon Lawrence]

[zero10]

[Jon Lawrence]

[zero10]

It's definitely a slicer issue. I'm using the version that ships with repetier host 0.95f. I guess if I want to re-slice it I'll need to learn how to transfer my settings to another slicing program. Any recommendations?

[evanalmighty]

Or just download an older version of slic3r and run it independently to generate your gcodes. It'll pick up your saved profiles so you don't have to transfer all the settings. Then again it's not a bad time to look into another software. I hear Cura is very capable.

[EddB]

[Some Printr Noob]

Currently hoping Jon can get this updated for the Simple 2014.

[thawkins]

[Jon Lawrence]

[zero10]

This might be a dumb question but how do you mount the delrin Z nut on the y plate? There are 2 screw holes but they are way off to one side and the shape of the hole does not at all match my delrin "nut"

[Jon Lawrence]

[zero10]

Hmm, to re-print the Y plate or to buy a nut... decisions decisions!

Thanks for the answer. Is the thread of the Z rod the same on all simples? If I buy the nut will it work on my normally-delrin-equipped simple? I can't find any specs on the thread / diameter of the rod to sort this out for myself.

[Jon Lawrence]

[ThereWillBprints]

I am interested in this mod and just ordered 4 of the shaft in the picture I posted. It will be with my 2014 model so who knows if it will work. The reason I went with the 406 over the 330 sized rods was because it was actually cheaper to do the larger size. Now that being said and reading the post I am still wondering if I do the Y axis or the X axis first when expanding?

Lastly I noticed people were curious about what the files would do run through Cura. I only use Cura so I would be happy to see what happens! If anyone wants the g-code before hand though, just ask here and I will post it.

[thawkins]

[Jon Lawrence]

[ThereWillBprints]

So I am trying to cut these with Cura and they are all coming out too large for the print volume they say. As you will notic re from the picture the extendyplate.stl file simply won't fit. I have been checking around and do not see any resize instructions. My limitations are even 2 mm over stock settings.

Thanks for any feedback

[Jon Lawrence]

[ThereWillBprints]

I know skirt is enabled but only at .2 mm I will have to check on raft. I usually use the quick print settings in cura and am on my way. Here are parts 4-10 I printed throughout the night on standard settings.

I really love how the nuts came out. I am using red wine pla I found on amazon for 1.1lb only. It prints at 215-220 but is awesome every print.

[Jon Lawrence]

[Some Printr Noob]

[Some Printr Noob]

Semi-cross post from Jon's other X & Y thread. This is about the Y only.

Started installing these mods. I kind of wish I waited to use my black PLA to print the parts, but the amber/orange doesn't look that bad.





So far everything has fit nicely. I had to print the Y/Z block twice, since Slic3r messed up on two of the bearing slots. I'm probably going to be using Cura to slice from now on. The zipties I have are a lot softer than the one that came with the Printrbot. This results in some slight play if some force is pushed on the rod, but overall it's a lot more rigid. I guess this will help when I accidentally run the Ubis into the bed.

Still using the stock acme rod. I haven't found a good place to find a two foot long rod. I did find a 3 foot long one on mcmaster, though. Unfortunately one of my Y rods isn't made all that well, and has a lot of resistance with the bearings. It's a tad too big and uneven. Gonna try and get it replaced.

I would like to do the cable management as well, but I have a spool holder in that area. I was wondering if you could possibly put the cable management and spool holder together somehow? That would be the best of both worlds.
Spool holder:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:118559

[greenb]

Since I am a new member, I can't post URL's. However, I came up with a good idea. why don't you combine thing:118559 and thing:237133. I have a copy of autodesk inventor but no Printrbot. If you think this is a good idea, I'll design the part and test it when I get my Printrbot. Does this sound like a deal?

[Some Printr Noob]

[ThereWillBprints]

Got home and figured it out pretty quickly. I had raft on but the brim settings were just fine since they are so close. However, I did have to edit the settings in the expert panel, save and then go back to my quick print settings. I just trust them more and have the better results than me going "expert."

@JonLawrence Also since I have not downgraded back to the previous version I have been using Repetier for the actual printing while Cura provides the code. Not my favorite system but for now it works. I use the string because I paid for extra and am working on a pulley system that resembles a expensive hunting bow, the movements would make the string tighter. Also it is 24" which is perfect for the new rods coming soon.

@SomePrintrNoob just saw your post as mine has failed many a times as you all were posting! I may remove everything else as well. Also I love that color! I am thinking of making the rest of the pieces in glow in the dark blue. Forget LED!

Here are the pictures of the settings and the model verified in red stating it will work;)

[ThereWillBprints]

So my wife wakes up this morning and tells me a package came. I opened it and took off the z/y axis and they are a perfect fit! Downloaded the instructions from thingiverse and am doing part 1 this afternoon and part 2 in the early morning hours. I also plan to pick up some springs from lowe's in order to keep tension. I printed all the parts though as a back up. I also am doing the X axis but much smaller for the mean time. The end goal however is 8" × 8" ×6" build volume. Not bad for under 500 bucks.

Is there an sd card tutorial?

[Some Printr Noob]

SD card tutorial here:

http://makezine.com/review/guide-to-3d- ... ot-simple/

[Jon Lawrence]

[Jon Lawrence]

[Some Printr Noob]

Thanks. I'll try printing that out when I get my printer back up and running. I think that the reduced spool holder length will cause some of the wider spools to not fit on properly(the matterhackers spool I have takes up pretty much the whole length). Otherwise, thinner spools would probably work just fine.

[Some Printr Noob]

I'm not sure if it's anything significant, but I thought I'd just let you guys know.



1mm gap between the motor and the plate. All the support for the motor is coming off the screw mounting on the aluminum extruder.

Time to go drill out these holes.

[Jon Lawrence]

Looks good. The model came from the wood frame. The motor is not supposed to touch the frame, only the extruder. Could be an issue if the mount softens up with some heat. Keep me posted, and I can add some support under the extruder mount location if needed.

[praedor]

FYI, I, like a lot of others have been having probs slicing the y/z plate with slic3r, my solution was to rotate the part before slicing, it then shows the correct bearing slots on the gcode viewer, although I have not printed it out yet - no fun time at the moment - I am hopeful that it will work out OK since before rotation it clearly showed malformed slots. If anyone has or will try this, let me know how it printed please. If no-one responds then I will update the post as soon as I have the time to print the part out.

[Some Printr Noob]

[thawkins]

[Some Printr Noob]

[Some Printr Noob]

I've got two identical rods for the Y. I think it would be a lot easier if the endpiece was modified so that the top rod would extend 50mm backwards(since the bottom rod extends 50mm forward), which makes sourcing parts easier and eliminates the need for cutting rods. If you could do a version of this, that would be awesome.

[EddB]

[Jon Lawrence]

[greenb]

wow, I did not notice that until now. Mind = blown

[sarahspins]

I must be missing something entirely with cura because I can't get it to slice anything other than the example file.... I have also had my share of problems getting the y plate to slice correctly with slicer, but since cura isn't exactly set up in a way that allows it to work at all, it's not a realistic solution.

I'm trying the "rotate" trick with the y plate to see if that fixes the bearing slot problem, and if it doesn't, I'm just going to take a dremel to the part I did print (with mistakes) and hope for the best.

[Jon Lawrence]

[greenb]

I opened this with autodesk inventor. It looks awesome, kudos.

[Some Printr Noob]

[Skrotus]

I'm going with the ExtendYFront2013Fan.STL even though I have the aluminium extruder because as far as I can see it will allow me to use the existing wooden plate and I'm a little concerned about the pla softening around the hotend on the 2014 one. Though I have no idea if that's likely or not.

Thanks for all these mods Jon, I'm really enjoying getting more and more out of my little printer.

On Cura I'm liking how easy and quick it is, but I miss my honeycomb infill patterns

[praedor]

[ThereWillBprints]

[ThereWillBprints]

[Skrotus]

[EddB]

[Jon Lawrence]

[Munson]

Will a 8by8 heat bed work with no problem with upgrade?

[evanalmighty]

I don't see why not. Technically you can make the bed as big as you want. Technically.

[Jon Lawrence]

[Munson]

Gotcha,thanks!!!Great build and design!!Ill keep you posted

[evanalmighty]

With 500mm rods I can reach 300mm out which is close to 12".

[Jon Lawrence]

[thawkins]

[greenb]

The Printrbot Simple frame is going to need more mass towards the feet to be able to cope with the acceleration over those kinds of distances. It might help to have longer feet as well. It is going to be interesting to see how prints turn out over a span of 12 inches.

[evanalmighty]

Bed is at stock 185mm width. I have some concepts in mind to spread the bearings out to support a larger bed. Once the ramps board arrives I'll mod the bed and get rid of the leveling springs. That should bring the width up to 200mm.

[Jon Lawrence]

[greenb]

why can't we just add a third bar? For instance, couldn't you modify the back brace and the support to hold two bars on the bottom and one on the top? The triangulation would increase the rigidity of the whole movement without adding to the "dead zone".

[evanalmighty]

I agree with Jon about removing the outer row of bearings and put them in front of the printer. Then I would use the cutout where the bearings were as a guide or mount point for the printed bearings holder. That should keep it parallel to the row closest to the motor. I don't think 3 rows is a good idea since you're just adding weight and forcing yourself into very tight tolerance conditions.

[greenb]

There is another option, you get those rods case hardened. I doubt that you will have a bending problem after that. This will be expensive but worth it, unless you have a oxy acetylene torch.

[pvyParts]

[greenb]

This is a good idea, but I wonder how firmly it would attach to the frame. I just realized that I have been talking about the y axis and people were thinking that I was talking about the x axis. Yay for dyslexia

[pvyParts]

[greenb]

I just remembered seeing this on . It is kinda like your idea



notice that the back bearings are still used



Im going to PM repeap squad and see if he can find the files for it

EDIT: I found the files

EDIT: EDIT: I am an idiot, thank you Some Printr Noob for pointing out that there was a link in the first post *face palm*

[pvyParts]

that would be ALOT more stable than my idea! not to mention a lot bigger!

Aaron.

[Some Printr Noob]

First post in this thread has the link to the thread on that highly upgraded simple.

Currently using 330mm rods and it covers a 6x6in heated bed nicely. I think my printer printed the parts a tad bigger than they're supposed to be, so the belt doesn't align properly with the bearing. A couple washers fixed that.

[killbox]

pvyParts i'm a little bit ahead of you check out thing:287762. pretty much the same design (great minds like alike eh?) i'm still designing it and i have yet to test it (waiting on parts for the printer) and I am hoping to continue the side piece up the side of the printer to bolt back into the wooden frame (work in progress) and adding longer more stable (dampeners built in maybe) to the front. but seeing as I want to try and keep it (close-ish) to the basic 4x4 print size or the XL bed size so it can be printed easily, i had to limit the front a bit

i like the over all design of the reprap squad. But I have a 3D printer. why buy more bits when I can print stuff.

[evanalmighty]

Ok I have some 20mm ALU extrusion that would be perfect for that. I wonder if that bed frame would make it too heavy though