Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

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Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Sat-20-Feb

After viewing kungfuroy’s modified simple http://www.printrbottalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5956, I was inspired to stretch my Y axis just enough to utilize a 6”x6” heat bed. I liked the clean look of eliminating all that wood, but was concerned about the stability. We had a snow day last week and I was stuck in the house all day. With the down time, I drew up a design that eliminated the wooden structure, replaced the Y/Z plate, separated the linear bearings for greater stability, eliminated the tie-wraps, fully supported the bearings, incorporated the GT2 belt drive, and worked with my stock extruder.

I only have 6”x6” heat bed to work with for a print surface, so I started the design working toward a 6” (150mm) Y-travel. The only 8mm rod I had on hand was a 36” length. Not wanting to end up with a short end of wasted 8mm rod, I split the rod and ended up with a 12” stroke (300mm) possible. Why not go for broke!

I was stunned at how stable the new Y/Z axis is. Even at full extension I cannot feel any wiggle. If I run the Z down into the print bed (oops), the extruder will compress the print bed springs (at 150mm extension).

While checking the bearing alignment I set the new axis on top of the stock simple axis. It dropped right on.
YAxisCompare.JPG

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Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-Feb-Sat-22-Feb

Incredible! I read on printrbot that there is a .8 degree slant on the y plate bearing mounts to compensate for the sag. (in a reply from Brooke, haven't run across it in a while or I would reference it.) Did you add these to your plate as well?
I am using the xl tower/volume upgrade and I have an 8x8 heatbed I have been wanting to use. So something like this would be perfect to make full use of it!
Have you tested it for sag? I have a magnetic/digital angle meter that would be perfect for measuring this. (used to test table saw blade angles mostly.)
Ed
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby reepete1 » 2014-Feb-Sat-23-Feb

A really nice design. That is what I have aimed for to build myself, perhaps not a full 12" but bigger then the XL version. But I going to try ti use printed nylon bearings instead of thoses noisy ballbearings that cane with the simple stock version.

Any chance we could have the files for that design??

/Pontus
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Sun-05-Feb

EddB wrote:Incredible! I read on printrbot that there is a .8 degree slant on the y plate bearing mounts to compensate for the sag. (in a reply from Brooke, haven't run across it in a while or I would reference it.) Did you add these to your plate as well?

Interesting. I know about this phenomenon, but did not know Brooke compensated in the design of the laser cut plate.

EddB wrote:I am using the xl tower/volume upgrade and I have an 8x8 heatbed I have been wanting to use. So something like this would be perfect to make full use of it!
Have you tested it for sag? I have a magnetic/digital angle meter that would be perfect for measuring this. (used to test table saw blade angles mostly.)
Ed

The source of the original sag comes from how close the bearings are to each other, the clearance within the bearing, and the overhung weight. I separated the bearings to give a greater moment capacity and increase rigidity. Now, that being said I have measured and mine does slope downhill to the front of the machine (about 0.4 degrees). On my machine, apparently my Y & X axis are not perfectly perpendicular. Confirmation comes from the fact that when fully retracted the weight of the rods behind the machine is greater than the weight of the extruder so the center of mass is behind the Y/Z plate. The angle is identical when fully extended or fully retracted, AKA "No sag!" just poor alignment of the X axis when printing the part. I may play with skewing the model to compensate for my X axis alignment, but I'm not sure if this will affect anybody else.
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Last edited by Jon Lawrence on 2014-Feb-Sun-05-Feb, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Sun-05-Feb

reepete1 wrote:Any chance we could have the files for that design??

Of course I will share. I am finishing up the documentation and will post to Thingiverse soon. I will post here when they are available.

You will need to be able to print 95mmx95mm FLAT to make it work, with a well calibrated printer.

And for those who love their tie-wraps, don't worry, you can skip the bearing caps and still use your tie-wraps to hold the bearings in place :) . I have tried it when test fitting, and it works just fine.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby nalby » 2014-Feb-Sun-09-Feb

This is exactly what I've been looking for, I have been wanting to make a heated 8x8 bed and not have any sag. Thanks great job I can't wait to start printing the parts
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Sun-10-Feb

Jon Lawrence wrote:The source of the original sag comes from how close the bearings are to each other, the clearance within the bearing, and the overhung weight. I separated the bearings to give a greater moment capacity and increase rigidity. Now, that being said I have measured and mine does slope downhill to the front of the machine (about 0.4 degrees). On my machine, apparently my Y & X axis are not perfectly perpendicular.

Just confirmed, my X & Y are definitely NOT square. When I find time, I will shim under the Z rod bearings to correct the alignment. In the mean time, if your machine prints square the Y axis will come out square.

Just got all the files up on Thingiverse http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:242185
Enjoy.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby nalby » 2014-Feb-Sun-11-Feb

Great. Could you tell me what size rods I would need for an 8x8 heated bed with your gt2 x-bed mod. I would like to order some but not have to much waste.


Thanks Jim
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Lemm » 2014-Feb-Sun-15-Feb

hey

I have done this on my jr v1 too but I had to stabelize the whole printer to prevent a flip over of the x axis. Also on faster prints with fully extended Y the Z rods begins to swing. Have you tested this on your mod ?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Sun-15-Feb

nalby wrote:Great. Could you tell me what size rods I would need for an 8x8 heated bed with your gt2 x-bed mod. I would like to order some but not have to much waste.


Upper rod add 5" and lower rod add 7" to desired print area in inches.

Print area 6", upper rod = 11", lower rod = 13", GT2 Belt = 16" min
Print area 8", upper rod = 13", lower rod = 15", GT2 Belt = 18" min
Print area 10", upper rod = 15", lower rod = 17", GT2 Belt = 21" min
Print area 12", upper rod = 17", lower rod = 19", GT2 Belt = 23" min

Hope it helps.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Sun-16-Feb

Lemm wrote:I have done this on my jr v1 too but I had to stabelize the whole printer to prevent a flip over of the x axis. Also on faster prints with fully extended Y the Z rods begins to swing. Have you tested this on your mod ?

I have not stretched it yet. I really only wanted to go to 6" print area, and that is all the bed I have available at the moment. At this time, lots of wasted stroke hanging out the back. I can definitely see where stability will be an issue. If I stretch the bed to accommodate the full stroke, I will add support to the frame at the same time.

When completely extended forward I can actually flex the wood frame right in front of the X motor with little effort. A good "Heads up" for those adventurous enough to push the limit.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-Feb-Sun-17-Feb

Jon Lawrence wrote:
EddB wrote:Incredible! I read on printrbot that there is a .8 degree slant on the y plate bearing mounts to compensate for the sag. (in a reply from Brooke, haven't run across it in a while or I would reference it.) Did you add these to your plate as well?

Interesting. I know about this phenomenon, but did not know Brooke compensated in the design of the laser cut plate.


I found that original thread at help.printrbot.com/Answers/View/1065/Y+axis+leans+down+when+extended.
His reply quote:
Gravity: It's the law.

Since the Simple extends the extruder out on an arm, it is absolutely essential that you get zip ties very very tight on the Z/Y plate (part 11).
Part 11 has been designed with bearing pockets with a 0.8 degree rotation in both the Z and the Y axis to counteract gravity. It is a challenge, since the sag is a moving target, at it's worst when the Y is fully extended toward the front.
The bed leveling springs can counteract a slight sag of 1-2 degrees.
We are confident that when properly built, this sag is a non-issue and it all works well.
Brook
End quote

Beside that and the fact we can align the bed for a 1 or 2 degree sag... Pretty soon we will have the automated bed leveling firmware. Sjould do away with any sag problem at all!
I love that your design handles this by seperating the y axis rods. Thats half the problem (other would be the z axis rods). It sounds like it is way better than what we are currently using! Plus all the added space!

I just started my first 5.5hr print and I have a couple 8mm rods salvaged from regular inkjet printers! The length of these are 12.5" so I won't get the full 8.5-9 inches out of my heatbed. Also going to have to make an insert for the ends since they are only 6mm for the last half inch on both ends. But it is a great money saver using these salvaged parts.
Also going to have to redesign the fan mount you just made me for the gt2 belt w aluminum extruder.(thing:194586) Not a problem though, the fan really does not work there as designed. It hinders any attempt to level the right side of the bed (stock setup as well, fan/shroud block access to bed leveling screws.)
The aluminum extruder looks like it will fit this design since it only uses 3 screws mounted to the stock baseboard. I'll let you know if it does! But fan is completely out.
Thanks for sharing this!
Ed

Picture is 8mm Rods salvaged from inkjet printers neighbors threw out!
1391983427648.jpg
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Sun-18-Feb

EddB wrote:...I love that your design handles this by seperating the y axis rods. Thats half the problem (other would be the z axis rods). It sounds like it is way better than what we are currently using!

I didn't separate the rods, but the bearings on the rods. Did this for both the Z and Y rods since you must stiffen BOTH to have any success at a rigid structure.

EddB wrote:I just started my first 5.5hr print and I have a couple 8mm rods salvaged from regular inkjet printers! The length of these are 12.5" so I won't get the full 8.5-9 inches out of my heatbed. Also going to have to make an insert for the ends since they are only 6mm for the last half inch on both ends. But it is a great money saver using these salvaged parts.

Just give me the dimensions of your rods (or is 0.500" on each end an accurate number) and I can tweek the model to fit, skip the insert idea I'll just make a hole to fit...

EddB wrote: Also going to have to redesign the fan mount you just made me for the gt2 belt w aluminum extruder.(thing:194586) Not a problem though, the fan really does not work there as designed. It hinders any attempt to level the right side of the bed (stock setup as well, fan/shroud block access to bed leveling screws.)

The aluminum extruder looks like it will fit this design since it only uses 3 screws mounted to the stock baseboard. I'll let you know if it does! But fan is completely out.

I actually did review mounting the fan, but just ran out of space to do it in one piece. I had to stay within the printable limits of the stock simple and if I extended the bottom to include the fan I was outside that range. If you (or anybody for that matter as we are working under the Creative Commons concept here) have any brilliant ideas and can sketch them on a napkin, take a picture, and send them my way, I can certainly translate to the model.

Side note, double check your rear mount model. I found I didn't orient it correctly In the first upload to Thingiverse and also added an adjustable end stop screw so you could tweek the stop position if desired.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-Feb-Mon-00-Feb

Jon Lawrence wrote:
When completely extended forward I can actually flex the wood frame right in front of the X motor with little effort. A good "Heads up" for those adventurous enough to push the limit.


You mean that the frame is basically flexing right between the printer and the bed? Something I might have to deal with first since I am using the xl volume/tower upgrade. Beside being very top heavy, I usually have a couple pounds of filament on top of it.
If this is where it is flexing, shouldn't be to hard to print or cut out(I'm a woodworker first) a little block that could fit under the base to prevent movement of the frame. Just need to make sure their is airflow since the x motor sticks out under the base.
First 6 hour print is almost done, still got a lot to print. I'll have more idea how it works for me and if everything works straight off the print.
Cheers,
Ed
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Mon-06-Feb

EddB wrote:
Jon Lawrence wrote:
When completely extended forward I can actually flex the wood frame right in front of the X motor with little effort. A good "Heads up" for those adventurous enough to push the limit.


You mean that the frame is basically flexing right between the printer and the bed? Something I might have to deal with first since I am using the xl volume/tower upgrade. Beside being very top heavy, I usually have a couple pounds of filament on top of it.
If this is where it is flexing, shouldn't be to hard to print or cut out(I'm a woodworker first) a little block that could fit under the base to prevent movement of the frame. Just need to make sure their is airflow since the x motor sticks out under the base.

That's correct, I see it in the long thin section where the side is only about 1" thick under the bed. I'm not concerned about it breaking and only mentioned it to illustrate the rigidity of the new Y/Z sandwich. In the event I attempt to actually utilize the entire stroke, any new bed structure should reinforce the frame.

You will need to clean up the rod holes. I modeled them at 8mm diameter exactly so any extraneous extrusion into that area will need to be cleaned up. Also, watch out if you assemble the Z bearings off the rods and try to load the assembly down onto the machine (really the only way I can see to do it). I got a little crooked and popped out a couple balls out of my Z bearings.

Good luck on your prints!
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby ahaer » 2014-Feb-Mon-16-Feb

The bearing support part looks awesome! How long does that bad boy take to print?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby thawkins » 2014-Feb-Mon-18-Feb

Jon Lawrence wrote:
EddB wrote:
Jon Lawrence wrote:
When completely extended forward I can actually flex the wood frame right in front of the X motor with little effort. A good "Heads up" for those adventurous enough to push the limit.


You mean that the frame is basically flexing right between the printer and the bed? Something I might have to deal with first since I am using the xl volume/tower upgrade. Beside being very top heavy, I usually have a couple pounds of filament on top of it.
If this is where it is flexing, shouldn't be to hard to print or cut out(I'm a woodworker first) a little block that could fit under the base to prevent movement of the frame. Just need to make sure their is airflow since the x motor sticks out under the base.

That's correct, I see it in the long thin section where the side is only about 1" thick under the bed. I'm not concerned about it breaking and only mentioned it to illustrate the rigidity of the new Y/Z sandwich. In the event I attempt to actually utilize the entire stroke, any new bed structure should reinforce the frame.

You will need to clean up the rod holes. I modeled them at 8mm diameter exactly so any extraneous extrusion into that area will need to be cleaned up. Also, watch out if you assemble the Z bearings off the rods and try to load the assembly down onto the machine (really the only way I can see to do it). I got a little crooked and popped out a couple balls out of my Z bearings.

Good luck on your prints!


LOL with this mod, the belt mods, extended frame etc Perhaps it might be time to start thinking about scrapping the frame and just using the motors/electronics/extruder/hot-end etc in a newly designed frame.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Mon-18-Feb

ahaer wrote:The bearing support part looks awesome! How long does that bad boy take to print?

First, thank you.

I think it took about 8 hours. I print rather slow because I can only print overnight or thru the day so if it takes longer than 1/2 hour to print it may as well take 8 hours to print. Not to mention I enjoy the higher quality.

I am tweeking the design a little to allow for some print irregularities while not loosing any rigidity or function. I noticed if I tighten the bearing caps too tight they bind the bearings (no big surprise from a printed plastic part). I am positive I have some minor warping in the print, not to mention it is also out of square pretty badly, but I have now shimmed the bearings and brought the X-Y axis into a true 90 degrees. This design makes it really easy to shim under the Z axis bearings to dial in the X-Y relationship. I will print the 2nd generation to confirm it's performance and report.

Always trying to improve...
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Mon-18-Feb

thawkins wrote:LOL with this mod, the belt mods, extended frame etc Perhaps it might be time to start thinking about scrapping the frame and just using the motors/electronics/extruder/hot-end etc in a newly designed frame.

:D Don't think it hasn't crossed my mind.
For the time being I would rather assimilate the current crop of machines (there is a Star Trek / Borg reference somewhere in my brain, but I can't seem to articulate it at the moment).
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby kungfuroy » 2014-Feb-Mon-21-Feb

Mr Lawrence this looks great!
I was juggling an idea in my head for a bracket that would keep all the rods square to each other but looks like your ZY plate saves me from that mess:)
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Mon-21-Feb

kungfuroy wrote: I was juggling an idea in my head for a bracket that would keep all the rods square to each other but looks like your ZY plate saves me from that mess:)

Yeah, I too had been tossing around ideas on how to separate those bearings to get a greater moment capacity and keep everything square. Once I started drawing up your end brackets it all just jelled and this is the result.

New (unrelated) lesson learned: With a very rigid Y axis, bed level becomes increasingly important. In the stock Simple Y axis there is enough give to be quite forgiving on your Z height 1st layer. Now if you are a bit too low, the extruder simply will not extrude.
Extruder contact with print surface = no filament extruded, period.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-Feb-Tue-21-Feb

I've been having no luck with a filament change. Don't know why but this sparkly stuff does not play nice with my printer at all! Tried 3 time to print the YZ plate and still having problems with it being stringy. Finally switched to a black filament and my default config and it is back to printing normal. First experience with a filament that actually altered my prints so drastically!
Anyhow, this last print was the closest I got to a working one with the odd filament. Except one thing strikes me odd about the model. If you look closely you will notice that one bearing mount sockets on the front as well as one on the back are not sunk in as I would expect (round bearing in a round hole... This is a square socket not half as deep as I would expect it to be.)
I can't figure it out. It wouldn't be a print error, not on the top and one on the underside (not sag and fill error on same print, or to that extreme. ) and they are in different areas, so not related. They are 90 degrees to each other, so it's not an alignment error. You can see the fill seperation.. This is how slicer saw the model. Here's a closup of the top one on the right. Notice the hole is not sunk in or round.
1392171658276.jpg


Directly to the left, then flip it over is the one on the reverse. The infill pattern seperation really shows that slicer saw the model like this.

1392171901846.jpg


They are about half the depth (from the edge) as all the others. They are not half round, just flat. So the bearing would sit half as deep.
I haven't tried it, so it may be designed this way and actually be in line for the mount. Is it correct? It just doesn't look right to me but if it's an error, I would have no idea what to look for!
Ed
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby nalby » 2014-Feb-Wed-06-Feb

What material are you printing with pla or abs. I only can do pla at the moment and was wondering if the extruder motor would get to hot for the front mount.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Wed-09-Feb

EddB wrote:... If you look closely you will notice that one bearing mount sockets on the front as well as one on the back are not sunk in as I would expect (round bearing in a round hole... This is a square socket not half as deep as I would expect it to be.)
...
Here's a closup of the top one on the right. Notice the hole is not sunk in or round.

Directly to the left, then flip it over is the one on the reverse. The infill pattern separation really shows that slicer saw the model like this.
...


The geometry of the bearing sockets are different on the top and bottom. For the top, the sockets are round as you would expect so this looks like a slicer error. On the bottom bearing, the geometry is round up to the 45 degree max overhang limitation, straight at 45 degrees for a bit, than exactly horizontal for good bridging across the top allowing .5mm for some sag.

I have sliced and printed several times for various reasons, unrelated to part function or print-ability. In the past I have had trouble with Slicer, so I converted to Kisslicer and have never looked back. It just simply works as I would expect.

Not sure what to suggest is the problem with Slicer. I am currently working on a slightly different geometry for the bearing sockets to allow for more print error tolerance. The bearing sockets are more of an hourglass shape to hold the bearing in the center and allow for some rotation for better alignment if the print is slightly warped. Maybe this geometry will slice better. Attached are the new files for the main block, and bearing caps. I have printed them and they printed well (sliced with KISSlicer), just haven't had time to tear down the machine for a re-install.
ExtendYPlate.STL

***EDIT***
Found I made the previously posted LM8UUBlock.stl bearing cavity exactly 24mm long (same as bearing). The bearing cavity should be 25mm long for clearance. I have deleted the previous file posted here, and inserted the new version.
LM8UUBlock.STL
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Last edited by Jon Lawrence on 2014-Feb-Thu-15-Feb, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Wed-10-Feb

nalby wrote:What material are you printing with pla or abs. I only can do pla at the moment and was wondering if the extruder motor would get to hot for the front mount.

I printed in PLA. The extruder motor is only sitting next to the front mount and still mounted on the wood. I haven't seen any problems with heat, but I do have a couple heat sinks on the motor so it doesn't get very hot.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Thu-15-Feb

I assembled the "hourglass" version today. Don't see any difference, but then again I am printing with a heated bed and on glass and have a extremely flat bottom part. Not sure if this version will help anybody, but I will leave it up on here if anybody wants to try. I did edit the previous post and corrected a mis-dimensioned bearing cavity found during assembly today.

One other point:
The alignment between the rods and the bearings is set by your printer. If the spacing is not exact, the rods can bind the bearings. I printed my ends on my old MXL belt drive system, and the new "hourglass" Y/Z plate on the 1st generation GT2 belt Y/Z plate. There must have been a slight calibration difference between the two because now there is a slight misalignment at the end of the stroke where the bearings get a little tight. I will work on a version 3 to accommodate this potential issue.

Stay tuned...
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby kungfuroy » 2014-Feb-Thu-23-Feb

I started assembling this tonight, but ran out of the proper fasteners. Looks great so far!
I did do one modification though on the Y rear, I bored through the top hole. I didnt want to have 2 different length rods if I later decided to tear it down. Doesnt look like it would affect the movement, but time will tell.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby nalby » 2014-Feb-Thu-23-Feb

Here's what you get for 4 hours and a 1 second power outage
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Fri-05-Feb

kungfuroy wrote:I started assembling this tonight, but ran out of the proper fasteners...

Don't forget the Printrbot roots, Zip-Ties are always an option!

ZipTies1.JPG

ZipTies2.JPG
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby zero10 » 2014-Mar-Fri-14-Mar

EddB wrote:I've been having no luck with a filament change. Don't know why but this sparkly stuff does not play nice with my printer at all! Tried 3 time to print the YZ plate and still having problems with it being stringy. Finally switched to a black filament and my default config and it is back to printing normal. First experience with a filament that actually altered my prints so drastically!
Anyhow, this last print was the closest I got to a working one with the odd filament. Except one thing strikes me odd about the model. If you look closely you will notice that one bearing mount sockets on the front as well as one on the back are not sunk in as I would expect (round bearing in a round hole... This is a square socket not half as deep as I would expect it to be.)
I can't figure it out. It wouldn't be a print error, not on the top and one on the underside (not sag and fill error on same print, or to that extreme. ) and they are in different areas, so not related. They are 90 degrees to each other, so it's not an alignment error. You can see the fill seperation.. This is how slicer saw the model. Here's a closup of the top one on the right. Notice the hole is not sunk in or round.

Directly to the left, then flip it over is the one on the reverse. The infill pattern seperation really shows that slicer saw the model like this.

They are about half the depth (from the edge) as all the others. They are not half round, just flat. So the bearing would sit half as deep.
I haven't tried it, so it may be designed this way and actually be in line for the mount. Is it correct? It just doesn't look right to me but if it's an error, I would have no idea what to look for!
Ed


Did you find a solution to this? I didn't think to check my gcode for this flaw before running it, and now 5 hours into the print I've noticed that mine also has this same defect. Given that it is all solid fill inside I'm probably going to just dremel out the bearing pocket as it seems like a better option to re-running this print job.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Fri-15-Mar

zero10 wrote:
EddB wrote:I've been having no luck with a filament change. Don't know why but this sparkly stuff does not play nice with my printer at all! Tried 3 time to print the YZ plate and still having problems with it being stringy. Finally switched to a black filament and my default config and it is back to printing normal. First experience with a filament that actually altered my prints so drastically!
Anyhow, this last print was the closest I got to a working one with the odd filament. Except one thing strikes me odd about the model. If you look closely you will notice that one bearing mount sockets on the front as well as one on the back are not sunk in as I would expect (round bearing in a round hole... This is a square socket not half as deep as I would expect it to be.)
I can't figure it out. It wouldn't be a print error, not on the top and one on the underside (not sag and fill error on same print, or to that extreme. ) and they are in different areas, so not related. They are 90 degrees to each other, so it's not an alignment error. You can see the fill seperation.. This is how slicer saw the model. Here's a closup of the top one on the right. Notice the hole is not sunk in or round.

Directly to the left, then flip it over is the one on the reverse. The infill pattern seperation really shows that slicer saw the model like this.

They are about half the depth (from the edge) as all the others. They are not half round, just flat. So the bearing would sit half as deep.
I haven't tried it, so it may be designed this way and actually be in line for the mount. Is it correct? It just doesn't look right to me but if it's an error, I would have no idea what to look for!
Ed


Did you find a solution to this? I didn't think to check my gcode for this flaw before running it, and now 5 hours into the print I've noticed that mine also has this same defect. Given that it is all solid fill inside I'm probably going to just dremel out the bearing pocket as it seems like a better option to re-running this print job.

Here are a couple images of what it is supposed to look like top and bottom. I believe it is a slicer issue.

GraphicYPlate1.PNG

GraphicYPlate2.PNG
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby zero10 » 2014-Mar-Fri-18-Mar

It's definitely a slicer issue. I'm using the version that ships with repetier host 0.95f. I guess if I want to re-slice it I'll need to learn how to transfer my settings to another slicing program. Any recommendations?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Mar-Fri-18-Mar

Or just download an older version of slic3r and run it independently to generate your gcodes. It'll pick up your saved profiles so you don't have to transfer all the settings. Then again it's not a bad time to look into another software. I hear Cura is very capable.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-Mar-Fri-20-Mar

zero10 wrote:Did you find a solution to this? I didn't think to check my gcode for this flaw before running it, and now 5 hours into the print I've noticed that mine also has this same defect. Given that it is all solid fill inside I'm probably going to just dremel out the bearing pocket as it seems like a better option to re-running this print job.


No, I never found a solution. It's very strange because I have printed linear bearing pockets and even linear bearings as well. Always used slicer. This is the first time, even with 40% infill that the pockets are filled in. The pockets that I thought where ok where actually triangle shaped and did not really seat bearings completely.
Right now I am still tuning a new 2014 simple and working on extending it's bed, but I do plan to come back to this. I want to be able to use the full 8x8 heatbed and this piece looks so solid and well designed. .
Ed

An afterthought, did you notice any mesh errors before slicing? It's been a while simce I did mine. That could be a reason for the infill if slicer doesn't know how to handle mesh errors.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Sat-04-Mar

Currently hoping Jon can get this updated for the Simple 2014.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby thawkins » 2014-Mar-Sun-04-Mar

EddB wrote:
zero10 wrote:Did you find a solution to this? I didn't think to check my gcode for this flaw before running it, and now 5 hours into the print I've noticed that mine also has this same defect. Given that it is all solid fill inside I'm probably going to just dremel out the bearing pocket as it seems like a better option to re-running this print job.


No, I never found a solution. It's very strange because I have printed linear bearing pockets and even linear bearings as well. Always used slicer. This is the first time, even with 40% infill that the pockets are filled in. The pockets that I thought where ok where actually triangle shaped and did not really seat bearings completely.
Right now I am still tuning a new 2014 simple and working on extending it's bed, but I do plan to come back to this. I want to be able to use the full 8x8 heatbed and this piece looks so solid and well designed. .
Ed

An afterthought, did you notice any mesh errors before slicing? It's been a while simce I did mine. That could be a reason for the infill if slicer doesn't know how to handle mesh errors.


I had the same problem, slic3r producing bad slices on this part. However I recently switched to Cura and it slices it fine. And it does it inside a few seconds.

Im on a trip to hongkong and I just scored 2x 1 metre 8mm smooth rods, so im firing up my cutter/grinder this weekend and putting in this mod. I want to get my y to 200mm. Then I will put jons x mod in and push the x to 200mm too. (Currently 180mm)
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Mon-10-Mar

Some Printr Noob wrote:Currently hoping Jon can get this updated for the Simple 2014.

I put together something for the 2014 fan and aluminum extruder. Took some big guesses on the extruder and hot end heights. I'm not happy with the fan overhangs, and am not sure how well they will print, but wanted to get something out there for you. If you are feeling adventurous, here is the file. No guarantees!

I can tweak it as needed so let me know if any part of this works. :D

Good luck.
ExtendYFront2014AlExtruder.STL
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby zero10 » 2014-Mar-Tue-14-Mar

This might be a dumb question but how do you mount the delrin Z nut on the y plate? There are 2 screw holes but they are way off to one side and the shape of the hole does not at all match my delrin "nut"
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Tue-15-Mar

zero10 wrote:This might be a dumb question but how do you mount the delrin Z nut on the y plate? There are 2 screw holes but they are way off to one side and the shape of the hole does not at all match my delrin "nut"

Not a dumb question at all. My bot has a steel hex nut that installs from the bottom, then the two M3 screws threaded up into the plastic to lock it in place. If you would like I believe you can find one from McMaster Carr #94815A007.

There is a new model uploaded yesterday that should accommodate the delrin nut (untested at this point). The new model will allow you to thread the delrin nut on the rod, flange down, set the new carriage over it, and thread a couple M3 screws up thru the nut into the printed part.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby zero10 » 2014-Mar-Tue-16-Mar

Hmm, to re-print the Y plate or to buy a nut... decisions decisions!

Thanks for the answer. Is the thread of the Z rod the same on all simples? If I buy the nut will it work on my normally-delrin-equipped simple? I can't find any specs on the thread / diameter of the rod to sort this out for myself.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Tue-18-Mar

zero10 wrote:Hmm, to re-print the Y plate or to buy a nut... decisions decisions!

Thanks for the answer. Is the thread of the Z rod the same on all simples? If I buy the nut will it work on my normally-delrin-equipped simple? I can't find any specs on the thread / diameter of the rod to sort this out for myself.

Humm... I don't think ANYTHING is the same on all Simples. :D

To find out what you have, just measure it. US threads are defined by the diameter and the number of threads per inch of length. If it measures 1/4" and has 16 threads in one inch of length than it would be called a 1/4-16 thread. This particular thread is an ACME thread. If you have a 1/4" diameter and 20 or 28 threads in an inch than it is a standard screw thread.

Metric threads are defined by the diameter and the distance from one thread to the next, or "pitch". An example would be 8x1 which would measure 8mm diameter and have a thread every 1mm.

There are many. If you can measure what you have, we can help match it up to a standard.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby ThereWillBprints » 2014-Mar-Mon-23-Mar

I am interested in this mod and just ordered 4 of the shaft in the picture I posted. It will be with my 2014 model so who knows if it will work. The reason I went with the 406 over the 330 sized rods was because it was actually cheaper to do the larger size. Now that being said and reading the post I am still wondering if I do the Y axis or the X axis first when expanding?

Lastly I noticed people were curious about what the files would do run through Cura. I only use Cura so I would be happy to see what happens! If anyone wants the g-code before hand though, just ask here and I will post it.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby thawkins » 2014-Mar-Mon-23-Mar

ThereWillBprints wrote:I am interested in this mod and just ordered 4 of the shaft in the picture I posted. It will be with my 2014 model so who knows if it will work. The reason I went with the 406 over the 330 sized rods was because it was actually cheaper to do the larger size. Now that being said and reading the post I am still wondering if I do the Y axis or the X axis first when expanding?

Lastly I noticed people were curious about what the files would do run through Cura. I only use Cura so I would be happy to see what happens! If anyone wants the g-code before hand though, just ask here and I will post it.


They work just fine on cura, will provide some photos once I get my unit assembled properly, I'm just working out the rod lengths required for a 200mm travel.

@jonsl
Would it be possible to produce a hybrid y front part that provides the new fan mount and airflow guide, but for the old 2013 simple, with the wood extruder.
A mashup of the original, but with the extra part for the fan.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Tue-09-Mar

thawkins wrote:Would it be possible to produce a hybrid y front part that provides the new fan mount and airflow guide, but for the old 2013 simple, with the wood extruder.
A mashup of the original, but with the extra part for the fan.

Untested and unproven, but if you are adventurous attached is the mash-up.
The mounting screws around the top of the fan do not work out all that well for overhangs etc. so some cleanup there will be necessary, but overall I believe it will function as expected.

Good Luck!

ExtendYFront2013Fan.STL

ExtendYFanDuct.STL

ExtendY2013FanDuct.JPG
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby ThereWillBprints » 2014-Mar-Thu-02-Mar

So I am trying to cut these with Cura and they are all coming out too large for the print volume they say. As you will notic re from the picture the extendyplate.stl file simply won't fit. I have been checking around and do not see any resize instructions. My limitations are even 2 mm over stock settings.

Thanks for any feedback
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Thu-04-Mar

ThereWillBprints wrote:So I am trying to cut these with Cura and they are all coming out too large for the print volume they say. As you will notic re from the picture the extendyplate.stl file simply won't fit. I have been checking around and do not see any resize instructions. My limitations are even 2 mm over stock settings.

Wish I could help you, but I have no experience with Cura.
You cannot print these with any skirt or brim or raft as it will not fit with these options. Do yo have one of these enabled?
The part itself is under 100x100 so there is no reason it shouldn't fit.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby ThereWillBprints » 2014-Mar-Thu-11-Mar

I know skirt is enabled but only at .2 mm I will have to check on raft. I usually use the quick print settings in cura and am on my way. Here are parts 4-10 I printed throughout the night on standard settings.

I really love how the nuts came out. I am using red wine pla I found on amazon for 1.1lb only. It prints at 215-220 but is awesome every print.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Thu-11-Mar

ThereWillBprints wrote:I know skirt is enabled but only at .2 mm I will have to check on raft. I usually use the quick print settings in cura and am on my way. Here are parts 4-10 I printed throughout the night on standard settings.

I really love how the nuts came out. I am using red wine pla I found on amazon for 1.1lb only. It prints at 215-220 but is awesome every print.


Your prints came out nice. I see you still have the stock string drive and it appears to be working well.

If you have a skirt with a .2 gap and say two loops with .4 mm extrusion width, that is 1 mm on each side or 2 mm extra overall. Try without the skirt. There is plenty of solid base available to get material flowing and tweak in the height on the part itself.

I would recommend skipping the bearing caps and use tie wraps instead. Far fewer parts to print, and less tendency to over tighten the bearings.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Thu-14-Mar

ThereWillBprints wrote:So I am trying to cut these with Cura and they are all coming out too large for the print volume they say. As you will notic re from the picture the extendyplate.stl file simply won't fit. I have been checking around and do not see any resize instructions. My limitations are even 2 mm over stock settings.

Thanks for any feedback


I had to remove all rafting, skirts, and brims for cura to slice.

Just manually push the filament through the hotend right when its starting. That way the ooze doesn't affect the beginning of the print.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Fri-01-Mar

Semi-cross post from Jon's other X & Y thread. This is about the Y only.

Started installing these mods. I kind of wish I waited to use my black PLA to print the parts, but the amber/orange doesn't look that bad.

Image

Image

So far everything has fit nicely. I had to print the Y/Z block twice, since Slic3r messed up on two of the bearing slots. I'm probably going to be using Cura to slice from now on. The zipties I have are a lot softer than the one that came with the Printrbot. This results in some slight play if some force is pushed on the rod, but overall it's a lot more rigid. I guess this will help when I accidentally run the Ubis into the bed.

Still using the stock acme rod. I haven't found a good place to find a two foot long rod. I did find a 3 foot long one on mcmaster, though. Unfortunately one of my Y rods isn't made all that well, and has a lot of resistance with the bearings. It's a tad too big and uneven. Gonna try and get it replaced.

I would like to do the cable management as well, but I have a spool holder in that area. I was wondering if you could possibly put the cable management and spool holder together somehow? That would be the best of both worlds.
Spool holder:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:118559
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby greenb » 2014-Mar-Fri-01-Mar

Since I am a new member, I can't post URL's. However, I came up with a good idea. why don't you combine thing:118559 and thing:237133. I have a copy of autodesk inventor but no Printrbot. If you think this is a good idea, I'll design the part and test it when I get my Printrbot. Does this sound like a deal?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Fri-02-Mar

greenb wrote:Since I am a new member, I can't post URL's. However, I came up with a good idea. why don't you combine thing:118559 and thing:237133. I have a copy of autodesk inventor but no Printrbot. If you think this is a good idea, I'll design the part and test it when I get my Printrbot. Does this sound like a deal?


Pretty much what I asked Jon in the previous post. I find that the side spool holder works pretty well, and would like to keep it if possible.

I would like to do the cable management as well, but I have a spool holder in that area. I was wondering if you could possibly put the cable management and spool holder together somehow? That would be the best of both worlds.
Spool holder:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:118559
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby ThereWillBprints » 2014-Mar-Fri-03-Mar

Got home and figured it out pretty quickly. I had raft on but the brim settings were just fine since they are so close. However, I did have to edit the settings in the expert panel, save and then go back to my quick print settings. I just trust them more and have the better results than me going "expert."

@JonLawrence Also since I have not downgraded back to the previous version I have been using Repetier for the actual printing while Cura provides the code. Not my favorite system but for now it works. I use the string because I paid for extra and am working on a pulley system that resembles a expensive hunting bow, the movements would make the string tighter. Also it is 24" which is perfect for the new rods coming soon.

@SomePrintrNoob just saw your post as mine has failed many a times as you all were posting! I may remove everything else as well. Also I love that color! I am thinking of making the rest of the pieces in glow in the dark blue. Forget LED!

Here are the pictures of the settings and the model verified in red stating it will work;)
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406mm by 8mm lm rods for x and z axis
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bearing plates printed for fabricated plexi glass print bed (8"×18")
New print are a 274 mm width × 267mm height × 101 depth (will change to 200 mm once verified and I have time)
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby ThereWillBprints » 2014-Mar-Fri-10-Mar

So my wife wakes up this morning and tells me a package came. I opened it and took off the z/y axis and they are a perfect fit! Downloaded the instructions from thingiverse and am doing part 1 this afternoon and part 2 in the early morning hours. I also plan to pick up some springs from lowe's in order to keep tension. I printed all the parts though as a back up. I also am doing the X axis but much smaller for the mean time. The end goal however is 8" × 8" ×6" build volume. Not bad for under 500 bucks.

Is there an sd card tutorial?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Fri-15-Mar

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Fri-15-Mar

Some Printr Noob wrote:
greenb wrote:Since I am a new member, I can't post URL's. However, I came up with a good idea. why don't you combine thing:118559 and thing:237133. I have a copy of autodesk inventor but no Printrbot. If you think this is a good idea, I'll design the part and test it when I get my Printrbot. Does this sound like a deal?


Pretty much what I asked Jon in the previous post. I find that the side spool holder works pretty well, and would like to keep it if possible.

I would like to do the cable management as well, but I have a spool holder in that area. I was wondering if you could possibly put the cable management and spool holder together somehow? That would be the best of both worlds.
Spool holder:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:118559

Doesn't look too complicated, I will take a look and see what I can do.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Fri-15-Mar

Jon Lawrence wrote:
Some Printr Noob wrote:
greenb wrote:Since I am a new member, I can't post URL's. However, I came up with a good idea. why don't you combine thing:118559 and thing:237133. I have a copy of autodesk inventor but no Printrbot. If you think this is a good idea, I'll design the part and test it when I get my Printrbot. Does this sound like a deal?


Pretty much what I asked Jon in the previous post. I find that the side spool holder works pretty well, and would like to keep it if possible.

I would like to do the cable management as well, but I have a spool holder in that area. I was wondering if you could possibly put the cable management and spool holder together somehow? That would be the best of both worlds.
Spool holder:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:118559

Doesn't look too complicated, I will take a look and see what I can do.

If you have 5mm extra length on the spool rod, I added a clearance hole to allow the cable management to mount on top of the spool holder. See attached.
printrbot_simple_spool_holder.stl

CableManagement-SpoolHolder.JPG
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Fri-18-Mar

Thanks. I'll try printing that out when I get my printer back up and running. I think that the reduced spool holder length will cause some of the wider spools to not fit on properly(the matterhackers spool I have takes up pretty much the whole length). Otherwise, thinner spools would probably work just fine.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Fri-19-Mar

I'm not sure if it's anything significant, but I thought I'd just let you guys know.

Image

1mm gap between the motor and the plate. All the support for the motor is coming off the screw mounting on the aluminum extruder.

Time to go drill out these holes.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Fri-19-Mar

Looks good. The model came from the wood frame. The motor is not supposed to touch the frame, only the extruder. Could be an issue if the mount softens up with some heat. Keep me posted, and I can add some support under the extruder mount location if needed.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby praedor » 2014-Mar-Fri-23-Mar

FYI, I, like a lot of others have been having probs slicing the y/z plate with slic3r, my solution was to rotate the part before slicing, it then shows the correct bearing slots on the gcode viewer, although I have not printed it out yet - no fun time at the moment - I am hopeful that it will work out OK since before rotation it clearly showed malformed slots. If anyone has or will try this, let me know how it printed please. If no-one responds then I will update the post as soon as I have the time to print the part out.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Fri-23-Mar

praedor wrote:FYI, I, like a lot of others have been having probs slicing the y/z plate with slic3r, my solution was to rotate the part before slicing, it then shows the correct bearing slots on the gcode viewer, although I have not printed it out yet - no fun time at the moment - I am hopeful that it will work out OK since before rotation it clearly showed malformed slots. If anyone has or will try this, let me know how it printed please. If no-one responds then I will update the post as soon as I have the time to print the part out.


Yeah, Slic3r isn't all that great of a slicer, sadly. I almost always slice with Cura now, then check the GCode in Repetier. I have a Y-Z plate laying around that has half-filled bearing slots due to Slic3r being dumb. I rotated it 180 and it still did the same. Too lazy to figure out the rotation when I can just use another program that works better.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby thawkins » 2014-Mar-Sat-00-Mar

Some Printr Noob wrote:
praedor wrote:FYI, I, like a lot of others have been having probs slicing the y/z plate with slic3r, my solution was to rotate the part before slicing, it then shows the correct bearing slots on the gcode viewer, although I have not printed it out yet - no fun time at the moment - I am hopeful that it will work out OK since before rotation it clearly showed malformed slots. If anyone has or will try this, let me know how it printed please. If no-one responds then I will update the post as soon as I have the time to print the part out.


Yeah, Slic3r isn't all that great of a slicer, sadly. I almost always slice with Cura now, then check the GCode in Repetier. I have a Y-Z plate laying around that has half-filled bearing slots due to Slic3r being dumb. I rotated it 180 and it still did the same. Too lazy to figure out the rotation when I can just use another program that works better.


I must admit I have moved to using Cura 100% now. Aside from not screwing up slicing on complex models, its 100s of times faster, I just gave up on slic3r when some components I designed where taking 25mins to slice on an 8gb i7, and comming out with errors. Cura seems to be reliable and slices the same part in about 10-15 seconds.

Smaller parts in Cura seems to reslice in fractioms of a second, its so fast they dont have a "slice" button, they just automaticaly reslice whenever anything changes.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Sat-00-Mar

thawkins wrote:
Some Printr Noob wrote:
praedor wrote:FYI, I, like a lot of others have been having probs slicing the y/z plate with slic3r, my solution was to rotate the part before slicing, it then shows the correct bearing slots on the gcode viewer, although I have not printed it out yet - no fun time at the moment - I am hopeful that it will work out OK since before rotation it clearly showed malformed slots. If anyone has or will try this, let me know how it printed please. If no-one responds then I will update the post as soon as I have the time to print the part out.


Yeah, Slic3r isn't all that great of a slicer, sadly. I almost always slice with Cura now, then check the GCode in Repetier. I have a Y-Z plate laying around that has half-filled bearing slots due to Slic3r being dumb. I rotated it 180 and it still did the same. Too lazy to figure out the rotation when I can just use another program that works better.


I must admit I have moved to using Cura 100% now. Aside from not screwing up slicing on complex models, its 100s of times faster, I just gave up on slic3r when some components I designed where taking 25mins to slice on an 8gb i7, and comming out with errors. Cura seems to be reliable and slices the same part in about 10-15 seconds.

Smaller parts in Cura seems to reslice in fractioms of a second, its so fast they dont have a "slice" button, they just automaticaly reslice whenever anything changes.


Yeah, it's pretty awesome. I hope they input viewing the GCode, though.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Sat-02-Mar

I've got two identical rods for the Y. I think it would be a lot easier if the endpiece was modified so that the top rod would extend 50mm backwards(since the bottom rod extends 50mm forward), which makes sourcing parts easier and eliminates the need for cutting rods. If you could do a version of this, that would be awesome.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-Mar-Sat-12-Mar

Some Printr Noob wrote:I've got two identical rods for the Y. I think it would be a lot easier if the endpiece was modified so that the top rod would extend 50mm backwards(since the bottom rod extends 50mm forward), which makes sourcing parts easier and eliminates the need for cutting rods. If you could do a version of this, that would be awesome.


I really hate cutting rods if it is not absolutely neccesary. Can't get those inches back if you decide to alter your build..
You could always drill out the back end and tap the side for a locking bolt
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Sat-15-Mar

Some Printr Noob wrote:I've got two identical rods for the Y. I think it would be a lot easier if the endpiece was modified so that the top rod would extend 50mm backwards(since the bottom rod extends 50mm forward), which makes sourcing parts easier and eliminates the need for cutting rods.

That makes absolutely perfect sense! Why didn't the original designer do that from the beginning, what was he thinking???
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby greenb » 2014-Mar-Sat-15-Mar

wow, I did not notice that until now. Mind = blown
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby sarahspins » 2014-Mar-Sat-15-Mar

I must be missing something entirely with cura because I can't get it to slice anything other than the example file.... I have also had my share of problems getting the y plate to slice correctly with slicer, but since cura isn't exactly set up in a way that allows it to work at all, it's not a realistic solution.

I'm trying the "rotate" trick with the y plate to see if that fixes the bearing slot problem, and if it doesn't, I'm just going to take a dremel to the part I did print (with mistakes) and hope for the best.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Sat-16-Mar

Some Printr Noob wrote:I've got two identical rods for the Y. I think it would be a lot easier if the endpiece was modified so that the top rod would extend 50mm backwards(since the bottom rod extends 50mm forward), which makes sourcing parts easier and eliminates the need for cutting rods. If you could do a version of this, that would be awesome.

Try this one. Quick and dirty, I was in a rush, but better than cutting rods. I will put together a pretty one later.

ExtendYRearRevA.STL
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby greenb » 2014-Mar-Sat-16-Mar

I opened this with autodesk inventor. It looks awesome, kudos.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Sat-17-Mar

sarahspins wrote:I must be missing something entirely with cura because I can't get it to slice anything other than the example file.... I have also had my share of problems getting the y plate to slice correctly with slicer, but since cura isn't exactly set up in a way that allows it to work at all, it's not a realistic solution.

I'm trying the "rotate" trick with the y plate to see if that fixes the bearing slot problem, and if it doesn't, I'm just going to take a dremel to the part I did print (with mistakes) and hope for the best.


Cura has a bit of a learning curve as some of the settings are hidden. Go to the Machine tab and make sure your machine settings are correct. Then, go to expert, open expert settings, and then make sure you have no rafting, no brim, and no skirt.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Mar-Sat-20-Mar

I'm going with the ExtendYFront2013Fan.STL even though I have the aluminium extruder because as far as I can see it will allow me to use the existing wooden plate and I'm a little concerned about the pla softening around the hotend on the 2014 one. Though I have no idea if that's likely or not.

Thanks for all these mods Jon, I'm really enjoying getting more and more out of my little printer.

On Cura I'm liking how easy and quick it is, but I miss my honeycomb infill patterns :(
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby praedor » 2014-Mar-Sun-14-Mar

praedor wrote:FYI, I, like a lot of others have been having probs slicing the y/z plate with slic3r, my solution was to rotate the part before slicing, it then shows the correct bearing slots on the gcode viewer, although I have not printed it out yet - no fun time at the moment - I am hopeful that it will work out OK since before rotation it clearly showed malformed slots. If anyone has or will try this, let me know how it printed please. If no-one responds then I will update the post as soon as I have the time to print the part out.


I have now printed the rotated slic3r sliced part and it came out with "proper" bearing slots - hooray, cause I could not get Kisslicer to produce anything on my simple, no matter what I changed it printed everything at mind boggling speed, I'm surprised my printer survived the intense shaking and vibration that Kisslicer induced. Anyway, although the part sliced OK and printed with Repetier, I now have other problems with the part - which would be off topic here, so I will open a new post in troubleshooting to deal with it.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby ThereWillBprints » 2014-Mar-Mon-01-Mar

Some Printr Noob wrote:
sarahspins wrote:I must be missing something entirely with cura because I can't get it to slice anything other than the example file.... I have also had my share of problems getting the y plate to slice correctly with slicer, but since cura isn't exactly set up in a way that allows it to work at all, it's not a realistic solution.

I'm trying the "rotate" trick with the y plate to see if that fixes the bearing slot problem, and if it doesn't, I'm just going to take a dremel to the part I did print (with mistakes) and hope for the best.


Cura has a bit of a learning curve as some of the settings are hidden. Go to the Machine tab and make sure your machine settings are correct. Then, go to expert, open expert settings, and then make sure you have no rafting, no brim, and no skirt.


In addition to this you can still go back to basic settings and Cura saves the settings from expert mode. This makes it better than slic3r any day of the week.

Someone mentioned something about the g-code being shown while Cura is printing. This was dropped out of the older versions because people were simply getting too antsy when printing and they would end up with bad prints. If you really want to enjoy Cura might I suggest the patch just before the current one. The printer panel is amazingly simple and your prints will never look better.

Part 27 just died via too much line tension so for right now I am using screw in hook ties. It gets the job done but honesty I believe it to be a flaw in the design itself. The new metal hook is a) sold every where b) cheaper than ghetto dog food bulk buys.
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406mm by 8mm lm rods for x and z axis
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bearing plates printed for fabricated plexi glass print bed (8"×18")
New print are a 274 mm width × 267mm height × 101 depth (will change to 200 mm once verified and I have time)
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby ThereWillBprints » 2014-Mar-Mon-07-Mar

Jon Lawrence wrote:
Pretty much what I asked Jon in the previous post. I find that the side spool holder works pretty well, and would like to keep it if possible.

I would like to do the cable management as well, but I have a spool holder in that area. I was wondering if you could possibly put the cable management and spool holder together somehow? That would be the best of both worlds.
Spool holder:
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:118559

Doesn't look too complicated, I will take a look and see what I can do.[/quote]
If you have 5mm extra length on the spool rod, I added a clearance hole to allow the cable management to mount on top of the spool holder. See attached.
printrbot_simple_spool_holder.stl

CableManagement-SpoolHolder.JPG
[/quote]

This is pretty cool! Came out really quick too, though I did expert high quality on Cura due to machine limitations. I replaced my broken part 27 by using hook hangars for wire baskets. Worked well too!
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Apr-Tue-22-Apr

Jon Lawrence wrote:
thawkins wrote:Would it be possible to produce a hybrid y front part that provides the new fan mount and airflow guide, but for the old 2013 simple, with the wood extruder.
A mashup of the original, but with the extra part for the fan.

Untested and unproven, but if you are adventurous attached is the mash-up.
The mounting screws around the top of the fan do not work out all that well for overhangs etc. so some cleanup there will be necessary, but overall I believe it will function as expected.

Good Luck!

ExtendYFront2013Fan.STL

ExtendYFanDuct.STL

ExtendY2013FanDuct.JPG


I'm using this version with the aluminium extruder now and haven't had any problems, the wooden mount plate slots in fine and everything lines up
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby EddB » 2014-Apr-Sat-14-Apr

Jon Lawrence wrote:When completely extended forward I can actually flex the wood frame right in front of the X motor with little effort. A good "Heads up" for those adventurous enough to push the limit.


I know this is an old conversation, but just finished my 'no sag' upgrade and am having trouble with the bed going any larger than 6 inches on the Y. Too much weight on the spring or something. I think I am going to have to mod your X gt2 bed extension to put the bed mounting holes further out.
Anyhow, it made me think of this message and the problem some people are having with their x belt (other mod conversation going on ), could it be the frame flex which is pulling their belts out of alignment and causing them to slip off the bearings. I think it would slip off behind if that where the case.
As for the frame flex, I was thinking there would be a real quick fix with a simple edit to your x-bed extention. The motor plate, the 2 tabs that lock into the base plate of the simple. Just extend them a little till they make contact to the ground under the center of the frame. Exactly the area that is causing the flex problem.
Anyone doing these upgrades might have a frame flex problem anyhow without knowing it, so it might fix problems before they start. (unless you have already fixed this ;) )
Now some pics.
Ed
1396724903270.jpg
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Apr-Mon-13-Apr

EddB wrote:
Jon Lawrence wrote:When completely extended forward I can actually flex the wood frame right in front of the X motor with little effort. A good "Heads up" for those adventurous enough to push the limit.
...
Anyhow, it made me think of this message and the problem some people are having with their x belt (other mod conversation going on ), could it be the frame flex which is pulling their belts out of alignment and causing them to slip off the bearings. I think it would slip off behind if that where the case.

Anything is possible, but I don't think the flex I was noticing would cause the tracking problems they are experiencing. The "flex" may cause a slight twist in the belt or an elevation change, but neither of these would cause significant tracking problems.

EddB wrote: As for the frame flex, I was thinking there would be a real quick fix with a simple edit to your x-bed extention. The motor plate, the 2 tabs that lock into the base plate of the simple. Just extend them a little till they make contact to the ground under the center of the frame. Exactly the area that is causing the flex problem.
Anyone doing these upgrades might have a frame flex problem anyhow without knowing it, so it might fix problems before they start. (unless you have already fixed this ;) )
...

No haven't fixed this one yet, still an open playing field. (I have been busy with extruders and hot ends lately)
The flex I saw was in front of the X motor plate where the wood sides are really thin. To correct, in my opinion, this area would need to be strengthened.


EddB wrote:I know this is an old conversation, but just finished my 'no sag' upgrade and am having trouble with the bed going any larger than 6 inches on the Y. Too much weight on the spring or something. I think I am going to have to mod your X gt2 bed extension to put the bed mounting holes further out.

...

Take a look at moving one of the rods out while you are at it. I sketched up a couple ideas, but nothing has resonated as of yet.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-Apr-Tue-12-Apr

Will a 8by8 heat bed work with no problem with upgrade?
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Apr-Tue-14-Apr

I don't see why not. Technically you can make the bed as big as you want. Technically.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Apr-Tue-14-Apr

Munson wrote:Will a 8by8 heat bed work with no problem with upgrade?

As you can see EddB above he is having trouble with spring force on a bed larger than 6".

If you have the Tower, than I don't see any reason you can't do a 8x8 assuming the springs hold out. Without the Tower, it may be pushing the limit of stability with the unsupported Z axis rods. They tend to twist, so you will see some erroneous movement in the X direction.

I have seen posts of going much farther, with the stock bearing setup, so it CAN be done....Now SHOULD it be done is a whole other conversation. :D
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Munson » 2014-Apr-Tue-14-Apr

Gotcha,thanks!!!Great build and design!!Ill keep you posted
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Apr-Tue-14-Apr

With 500mm rods I can reach 300mm out which is close to 12".
Image
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Apr-Tue-18-Apr

evanalmighty wrote:With 500mm rods I can reach 300mm out which is close to 12".


Guess I am going to have to dream up a mounting for a 12" wide bed now.

I am frustrated with my extruder at the moment, and that sounds like a good distraction for tomorrow. How wide is your current print bed? I have been trying to keep everything in the original 100x100 print area, but I don't think that will be possible to stretch the bed width to 12".
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby thawkins » 2014-Apr-Tue-19-Apr

EddB wrote:
Jon Lawrence wrote:When completely extended forward I can actually flex the wood frame right in front of the X motor with little effort. A good "Heads up" for those adventurous enough to push the limit.


I know this is an old conversation, but just finished my 'no sag' upgrade and am having trouble with the bed going any larger than 6 inches on the Y. Too much weight on the spring or something. I think I am going to have to mod your X gt2 bed extension to put the bed mounting holes further out.
Anyhow, it made me think of this message and the problem some people are having with their x belt (other mod conversation going on ), could it be the frame flex which is pulling their belts out of alignment and causing them to slip off the bearings. I think it would slip off behind if that where the case.
As for the frame flex, I was thinking there would be a real quick fix with a simple edit to your x-bed extention. The motor plate, the 2 tabs that lock into the base plate of the simple. Just extend them a little till they make contact to the ground under the center of the frame. Exactly the area that is causing the flex problem.
Anyone doing these upgrades might have a frame flex problem anyhow without knowing it, so it might fix problems before they start. (unless you have already fixed this ;) )
Now some pics.
Ed
1396724903270.jpg


Or just put autoleveling in and get rid of the springs, and bolt the bed on hard.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Tue-19-Apr

The Printrbot Simple frame is going to need more mass towards the feet to be able to cope with the acceleration over those kinds of distances. It might help to have longer feet as well. It is going to be interesting to see how prints turn out over a span of 12 inches.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Apr-Tue-19-Apr

Bed is at stock 185mm width. I have some concepts in mind to spread the bearings out to support a larger bed. Once the ramps board arrives I'll mod the bed and get rid of the leveling springs. That should bring the width up to 200mm.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Apr-Tue-19-Apr

evanalmighty wrote:Bed is at stock 185mm width. I have some concepts in mind to spread the bearings out to support a larger bed. Once the ramps board arrives I'll mod the bed and get rid of the leveling springs. That should bring the width up to 200mm.

It isn't all that complicated to move one of the rods out in front of the machine. At the same time the bearings should be separated to support a longer X travel. Where I keep getting stuck with the compromises. How much "dead zone" is acceptable in the X travel to increase the stability of the X axis, or how much Z height can be given up to minimize this zone.

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Tue-19-Apr

why can't we just add a third bar? For instance, couldn't you modify the back brace and the support to hold two bars on the bottom and one on the top? The triangulation would increase the rigidity of the whole movement without adding to the "dead zone".
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Apr-Tue-20-Apr

I agree with Jon about removing the outer row of bearings and put them in front of the printer. Then I would use the cutout where the bearings were as a guide or mount point for the printed bearings holder. That should keep it parallel to the row closest to the motor. I don't think 3 rows is a good idea since you're just adding weight and forcing yourself into very tight tolerance conditions.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Tue-20-Apr

There is another option, you get those rods case hardened. I doubt that you will have a bending problem after that. This will be expensive but worth it, unless you have a oxy acetylene torch.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Tue-20-Apr

evanalmighty wrote:I agree with Jon about removing the outer row of bearings and put them in front of the printer. Then I would use the cutout where the bearings were as a guide or mount point for the printed bearings holder. That should keep it parallel to the row closest to the motor. I don't think 3 rows is a good idea since you're just adding weight and forcing yourself into very tight tolerance conditions.
Jon Lawrence wrote:
evanalmighty wrote:Bed is at stock 185mm width. I have some concepts in mind to spread the bearings out to support a larger bed. Once the ramps board arrives I'll mod the bed and get rid of the leveling springs. That should bring the width up to 200mm.

It isn't all that complicated to move one of the rods out in front of the machine. At the same time the bearings should be separated to support a longer X travel. Where I keep getting stuck with the compromises. How much "dead zone" is acceptable in the X travel to increase the stability of the X axis, or how much Z height can be given up to minimize this zone.


i was thinking of doing this aswell making a piece that cliped into the current bearing holder and extended out a bit to hold a slightly wider bed

I drew this yesterday ( sorry about the crappy quality my pc with CAD and scanner is dead atm )

Image

( also i drew this at work without the printer next to me so it may be a bit wrong )

i was thinking you could spread the 2 front axis bearing ( increasing the "dead zone ) slightly for a 3 point stability etc etc.

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[/quote]

Epic quote is epc

sorry if this is considered a highjacking just thought i would share.

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Tue-20-Apr

This is a good idea, but I wonder how firmly it would attach to the frame. I just realized that I have been talking about the y axis and people were thinking that I was talking about the x axis. Yay for dyslexia
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Tue-20-Apr

greenb wrote:This is a good idea, but I wonder how firmly it would attach to the frame. I just realized that I have been talking about the y axis and people were thinking that I was talking about the x axis. Yay for dyslexia


yeah i get confused alot as wel! i'm not sure how strong it would be i need to fix my CAD pc so i can make it and find out! i thought it would be pretty solid tho. Only problem is that you have to dismantle a working printer to find out. ( that the only reason i have not done the x axis upgrade as yet )

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Tue-20-Apr

I just remembered seeing this on http://reprapsquad.wordpress.com/. It is kinda like your idea

Image

notice that the back bearings are still used

Image

Im going to PM repeap squad and see if he can find the files for it

EDIT: I found the files http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:238932/#files

EDIT: EDIT: I am an idiot, thank you Some Printr Noob for pointing out that there was a link in the first post *face palm*
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Last edited by greenb on 2014-Apr-Tue-21-Apr, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Tue-20-Apr

that would be ALOT more stable than my idea! not to mention a lot bigger!

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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Apr-Tue-21-Apr

First post in this thread has the link to the thread on that highly upgraded simple.

Currently using 330mm rods and it covers a 6x6in heated bed nicely. I think my printer printed the parts a tad bigger than they're supposed to be, so the belt doesn't align properly with the bearing. A couple washers fixed that.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby killbox » 2014-Apr-Tue-22-Apr

pvyParts i'm a little bit ahead of you check out thing:287762. pretty much the same design (great minds like alike eh?) i'm still designing it and i have yet to test it (waiting on parts for the printer) and I am hoping to continue the side piece up the side of the printer to bolt back into the wooden frame (work in progress) and adding longer more stable (dampeners built in maybe) to the front. but seeing as I want to try and keep it (close-ish) to the basic 4x4 print size or the XL bed size so it can be printed easily, i had to limit the front a bit

i like the over all design of the reprap squad. But I have a 3D printer. why buy more bits when I can print stuff.
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Re: Simple-300mm Y axis, No sag!

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Apr-Tue-22-Apr

Ok I have some 20mm ALU extrusion that would be perfect for that. I wonder if that bed frame would make it too heavy though
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