KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

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KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Tue-19-Feb

When trying to print materials that have a lot of ooze like Taulman Nylon 618 and LAYWOO-D3, I have been having a lot of trouble with the way Slic3r does tool moves. because these materials ooze so much and no amount of retraction helps, Slic3r's approach results in a lot of back and forth strings that really mess up a print. its almost impossible to clean afterwards, especially nylon which is so tough.

I posted a issue about it in the Slic3r github and the guy closed it immediately with a snide comment about there is no issue here.

I just printed the same model using KISSlicer on the advice of RetireeJay and its waaaaay better. the way KISSlicer plans out the print is much smarter than Slic3r. its also faster. i think i could get used to the interface for KISSlicer as well. it might even be worth the $40 to buy the "pro" version which I would need if I use it as my defact slicer.

Because Slic3r doesn't do as good a job with tool path as KISSlicer and because the dev seems uninterested in user feedback, I am going to start using KISSlicer now and enjoy some better print quality out of these very cool materials.

Below are two prints using Nylon 618. You can see the mess Slic3r makes. I need to tweek the settings on KISSlicer because there is a little bit too much extrusion but i think once dialed in, KISSlicer will be able to produce gcode that can print detailed nylon and wood parts.
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KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Tue-23-Feb

I printed another Nylon 618 gear using the KISSlicer gcode but this time on a cotton cloth bed. it worked great. wow. they actually look really nice and work well too. the only issue is some bow because of cooling curl. not sure if nylon can resist doing that. but the print of the gear turned out really nice and thats because of the way KISSlicer moves the hot end - it makes for a much cleaner print than Slic3r.

its just going to be a pain to get a nice set of settings set up in KISSlicer. i had Slic3r all set up for the most part. and there are some tweeks i have to make. such as what to put in the extruder 1 mm/rev and getting extrusion and speeds right. the speeds are weird - when i put in nummbers between 20-30 mm/s i get actual speeds way faster than that. i saw a post somewhere with someone with the same issue. but unsure of the cause and solution other than dividing by a factor in your head.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Wed-00-Feb

Here's what I worked out. based on the stock motors (the original motors used not the Kysan. part numbers 42BYGH4807 and 42BYGH011 specs below), 200 steps per rotation, my E calibration is 502 steps/mm, that makes 1 revolution 200/502 mm/rev = 0.398406 mm/rev.

BUT! I believe that we use 1/16 microstepping. so that would mean 16x more the steps per revolution. so that 0.398406 mm/rev becomes 6.374501992 mm/rev...

right????

UPDATE: RIGHT! its printing like a charm! just the right amount of filament. im printing in white ABS and it turned out great. so I think that each slicer has its own ways of doing things and like most things you pick the best tool for the job. KISSlicer for nautilus shell gears for sure. Slic3r for... we'll see. i want to print more with KISSlicer.



42BYGH4807
NEMA 17 Stepper Motor Specifications

Step angle 1.8°
Current (A) 0.5
Resistance (Ohms) 19
Inductance (mH) 32
L0 Dimension (mm) 48
L1 Dimension (mm) 24
Holding Torque(N.cm) 4.2
Control Wires 4
Insulation Resistant 500V DC 100 MOhm Min
Insulation Strength 50Hz 1Minute 500V Min
Ambient Temperature -20°C~+50°C
Temperature Rise 80°C Max.
Radial Play 0.02mm Max.
End Play 0.1-0.3mm


42BYGH011
NEMA 17 Stepper Motor Specifications

Step angle 1.8°
Current (A) 0.33
Resistance (Ohms) 34
Inductance (mH) 48
L0 Dimension (mm) 34
L1 Dimension (mm) 20
Holding Torque(N.cm) 2.4
Control Wires 4
Insulation Resistant 500V DC 100 MOhm Min
Insulation Strength 50Hz 1Minute 500V Min
Ambient Temperature -20°C~+50°C
Temperature Rise 80°C Max.
Radial Play 0.02mm Max.
End Play 0.1-0.3mm
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby milrtime83 » 2013-Feb-Wed-07-Feb

The first issue of Reprap magazine (http://reprapmagazine.com/) has a slicer comparison and shows this very well, KISSlicer's moves are almost all over the part while Slic3r will go anywhere.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Wed-11-Feb

milrtime83 wrote:The first issue of Reprap magazine (http://reprapmagazine.com/) has a slicer comparison and shows this very well, KISSlicer's moves are almost all over the part while Slic3r will go anywhere.


Do you mean to say that KISSlicer's moves are more over the actual printed areas where-as Slic3r will tool around all over the print area? yes... this is what creates a lot of the gobs, blobs and stringies that plaque Slic3r prints. KISSlicer handles this better.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby milrtime83 » 2013-Feb-Wed-11-Feb

plexus wrote:
milrtime83 wrote:The first issue of Reprap magazine (http://reprapmagazine.com/) has a slicer comparison and shows this very well, KISSlicer's moves are almost all over the part while Slic3r will go anywhere.


Do you mean to say that KISSlicer's moves are more over the actual printed areas where-as Slic3r will tool around all over the print area? yes... this is what creates a lot of the gobs, blobs and stringies that plaque Slic3r prints. KISSlicer handles this better.


Yeah, over the printed area is what I meant. Here is their comparison graphic showing the difference. The green lines are travel that goes over unprinted areas.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Wed-12-Feb

milrtime83 wrote:
plexus wrote:
milrtime83 wrote:The first issue of Reprap magazine (http://reprapmagazine.com/) has a slicer comparison and shows this very well, KISSlicer's moves are almost all over the part while Slic3r will go anywhere.


Do you mean to say that KISSlicer's moves are more over the actual printed areas where-as Slic3r will tool around all over the print area? yes... this is what creates a lot of the gobs, blobs and stringies that plaque Slic3r prints. KISSlicer handles this better.


Yeah, over the printed area is what I meant. Here is their comparison graphic showing the difference. The green lines are travel that goes over unprinted areas.


Right. you can see another example in the screen shots in the first post. i do like KISSlicer and some of its features. one that i really like (but have yet to experiment with so i like it theoretically :) ) is the ability to set an upper and lower speed limit for perimeters and infill. on the main interface is a slider that you slide from the lower to the upper limit depending on how fast you want to go. its relative but its easier than trying to set up a well spread set of speed parameters like in Slic3r. just set the slider to where you think you want to be in terms of speed and all your other parameters follow. but we'll see how well it works in practice. i need more print time with KISSlicer before i go give it the gold star.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby RetireeJay » 2013-Feb-Wed-12-Feb

Can you make KISSlicer produce a "skirt" around a part before it starts printing the part? I like that feature of Slic3r because it makes sure the printhead is well-filled and extruding properly.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Wed-14-Feb

RetireeJay wrote:Can you make KISSlicer produce a "skirt" around a part before it starts printing the part? I like that feature of Slic3r because it makes sure the printhead is well-filled and extruding properly.


KISSlicer has skirt. it doesn't do it by loops, its by width in mm. you can't specify distance from the object. (as a side note, i've used Slic3r's skirt to create a 3-5 layer base around the print to help it stick - similar to brim but with skirt you can control the height in layers) with KISSlicer it appears to just be skirt, on or off. it will also various rafts.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby mdfast1 » 2013-Feb-Wed-20-Feb

Wow I never realized how all over the place Slic3rs moves are compared to KISS slicer. Thanks for the video plexus.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Wed-23-Feb

You're welcome! I was pretty stuck on Slic3r. but then i was printing the nautilus gears in all the materials i have. when i got to the oozy ones the results were bad. this made me question, again, why slic3r moves were so illogical. i chalked it up to something i dont know about. that made me remember the article in the new reprap magazine that compares slicers. from there i tried KISSlicer and right at the moment i am tweeking the parameters and printing test frogs.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby nepaholic » 2013-Feb-Thu-01-Feb

Awesome, i tried kisslicer yesterday and i´m impressed how fast it is.
I just miss 2 features:
-set the first layer height
-lift-z function

Anyone a idea? have i missed something or isn´t it integrated?
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby RetireeJay » 2013-Feb-Thu-12-Feb

Help! I have looked, and looked, and looked, but I can't find the setting in KISSlicer to create a skirt. Is it on the main screen somewhere, or in Preferences / Advanced Settings? Which tab? What's it called?

Also, please define "raft"

I have KISSlicer 0.9.7, which I think is the most recent version and downloaded within a day or two of the version you downloaded.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby eflyersteve » 2013-Feb-Thu-12-Feb

Not sure as I haven't used it yet but bottom right on main screen there is a drop down under "raft" and an iption for "skirt" (among other options such as "grid" and "pillar")
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Thu-12-Feb

RetireeJay wrote:Help! I have looked, and looked, and looked, but I can't find the setting in KISSlicer to create a skirt. Is it on the main screen somewhere, or in Preferences / Advanced Settings? Which tab? What's it called?

Also, please define "raft"

I have KISSlicer 0.9.7, which I think is the most recent version and downloaded within a day or two of the version you downloaded.


I have version 1.09 (on a mac). raft ... think about a raft that you use on water. it holds you up. raft is a usually a 1 layer thick grid printed as the first layer, usually a lot larger than the print. the print then prints on the raft. its a way to get a larger footprint on the bed for better adhesion.

In KISSlicer, they are using the term "raft" to mean any of the extra material printed around the main part. so from the raft menu (main screen, lower right corner) you can select skirt, grid or pillar. skirt gives the usual outline as per Slic3r's skirt. Inflate adjusts the width of the skirt. grid prints a grid under the part and pillar prints little cylinders that the print is then printed on. the cylinders can be used with print beds that are not entirely flat or level - the idea is that by the time the pillars are created, the tops of them are going to be aligned than the bed itself.

my question is, how do you do z-lift in KISSlicer?

i have KISSlicer close to dialed in... i printed the tree frog. holy grap did it ever turn out nice! its probably my cleanest most precise print to date. despite one of the feet not sticking. :( i might try it with raft. its nice to have the raft option.

one of the reasons the frog turned out so nice is that KISSlicer intelligently determines the print speed for smaller loops instead of just going full bore like Slic3r. it also has better tool paths. the net result is a cleaner print. i also like the ability to put material and operation costs in to get an estimate on the cost of a print - this is useful to me as i am going to be selling some printed products soon so its nice to have a more accurate idea of cost.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Thu-12-Feb

Some KISSlicer raft options...
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby RetireeJay » 2013-Feb-Thu-13-Feb

Nice Frogs!
Thanks for explaining about rafts.
Oddly, when I go to the web site, it tells me that I downloaded version 1.09, but when I click on the Help / About button in the program it tells me the version is 0.9.7
Anyway, I think I'm good to go now. Thanks!
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Thu-13-Feb

I found this post just now which has some nice comparisons between slicers: http://forums.reprap.org/read.php?279,165774
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby Mooselake » 2013-Feb-Thu-14-Feb

There's a comparison of Slic3r, KISSlicer, and Cura in RepRap Magazine issue one.

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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby nepaholic » 2013-Feb-Thu-14-Feb

WOw plexus this software is a great find. It improved my prints on the jr.
Did you found something like a first layer height?

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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Thu-15-Feb

Mooselake wrote:There's a comparison of Slic3r, KISSlicer, and Cura in RepRap Magazine issue one.


That review is what made me think to try KISSlicer after finding Slic3r code was resulting is these non-optimal tool moves causing stringing and other problems.

nepaholic wrote:WOw plexus this software is a great find. It improved my prints on the jr.
Did you found something like a first layer height?


I have not found anything about first layer parameters. however, if you look in other forums with reprappers that have been doing this for awhile, many use Cura and KISSlicer. also there is a lot of use of raft. my personal feeling is that you don't really need to fiddle with the first layer height if you use raft. i am going to start using raft more since KISSlicer supports it and it appears that raft is the most common way to get bed adhesion. i am looking forward to the promise of raft preventing parts from unsticking but i need to work with it more to determine if its really the defacto solution. so far so good.

the short answer is that with the support of raft in KISSlicer the "features" of Slic3r that are meant to help with first layer adhesion are not as important since raft will make it stick.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby mdfast1 » 2013-Feb-Thu-23-Feb

Ok, trying out KISSlicer tonight and I can't get the exported GCODE to show any filament when I load it into RepHost. It appears to show the travel but not the filament.

When you export from KISS do you export Gcode or do you export a packaged .stl?

Problem #2- The print shows up in the bottom left corner of the virtual print bed when I load the GCODE into Rephost. Did you use any offsets in your KISS settings?
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Feb-Thu-23-Feb

mdfast1 wrote:Ok, trying out KISSlicer tonight and I can't get the exported GCODE to show any filament when I load it into RepHost. It appears to show the travel but not the filament.

When you export from KISS do you export Gcode or do you export a packaged .stl?

Problem #2- The print shows up in the bottom left corner of the virtual print bed when I load the GCODE into Rephost. Did you use any offsets in your KISS settings?


ok i had to to do it: here are screen shots from my set up. yes i know my ABS retract has no retract :) some of these parameters are going to be important to set up with the PB and some are project related. you'll know which is which hopefully.

This is 1.1.0beta on a mac. i am getting great results. the speed settings will only be useful if you change the EEPROM settings for default max speed, which is set at 60 mm/s so anything over 60 mm/s will be capped. so figure out your own speed settings or get rid of the 60mm/s limit. set it to 200mm/s. even with my max speed uncapped, i will still get skips on X or Y if i have moves over 150mm/s. and i have the 36 tooth GT2 pulleys and belts so lots of belt contact. i wonder if kysan motors would make a difference so i can print faster. i digress...

In version 1.09 there is a setting in extruder for mm/rev. i dont really know what this affects but the default value was really low and the printer printed really slow. so i figured i needed to work out mm/rev. well i worked it out for my PB to 6.3745. but i see in the 1.1 beta that its now gain. its at 1 and i am printing and its working well. so somehow it was critical is 1.09 and its irrelevant in 1.1beta (???) anyway... here you go...
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Mar-Fri-00-Mar

Here are some pictures of the frog printed with KISSlicer at 300µm layers with a 0.5mm nozzle. one is at a fast speed, about 100mm/s or so and the others are slow at about 40mm/s or so. can you which is which?
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Mar-Fri-00-Mar

and here is the 100µm layer done with Jerrill's 0.2mm nozzle that he graciously made for me. crazy great.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby Jerrill » 2013-Mar-Fri-01-Mar

The frog is looking great! More pics please! I'm glad you like the nozzle!

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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby mdfast1 » 2013-Mar-Fri-01-Mar

Thanks for the settings, I'm going to put up a KISSlicer tutorial for windows here with my settings (I figured most of it out by the time I saw this post. Still working on the extruder mm/rev under the extruder tab (I don't have that gain option you have).

Also, I noticed that the Raft (set to Grid) is really thick when I print with it. It's pretty much a solid layer under my print. Have you had much success modifying this?
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Mar-Fri-02-Mar

I printed a bunch of frogs with raft. the raft is almost two layers solid but not quite solid. this makes it easy to remove by and easy clean up with an exacto knife. i had to get used to this raft idea but after seeing the results and not having to worry about parts breaking off, its worth it.

for mm/rev i took my E calibration factor of 502 which i understand is steps/mm. divide that into the total. ukber of steps per rev which i used 200 * 16 = 3200. the rationale is that the motor can do 200 steps per rev but we have 1/16 micro stepping enabled. so from a software perspective its 3200 / 502 mm/rev. so sub in your own E factor.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby RetireeJay » 2013-Mar-Fri-11-Mar

When you are using "Absoulte E" in your G-Code Settings, then the E-Cal factor gets ignored. KISSlicer issues commands to the printer in millimeters, which are controlled by your M92 Exx code in your header, or else by the setting you have burned into EEPROM.

(I checked this out by creating Gcode for my simple torture test with two different E-Cal factors in KISSlicer; the Extrude commands were identical).
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby mdfast1 » 2013-Mar-Fri-14-Mar

Thanks retireeJay, no wonder that wasn't changing my extruded values. When I printed with raft (grid) i didn't get much of a grid, I got more of a compact squished flat layer (made it really hard to remove from the part). I wonder what's going on there.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Mar-Fri-15-Mar

FYI my rafts are really easy to peel off my prints. so not sure what the issue might be. other than your initial Z height of course which affects how compacted the first layer will be into your print bed. maybe you need to raise it. speaking of which since i upgraded the Z stop to optical and micrometer adjust i find i dont need any clearance there anymore. if i set it at my usual 0.002" the clearsnce is much too high. i have to set it at 0 to get a good first layer. and the first layer now is really precise! on thinking about it, i wonder if that clearance practice is to make up for some deficiency in the stock design...
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby mdfast1 » 2013-Mar-Fri-16-Mar

Alright then, going to try and raise up my Z first layer a bit. Although without raft I had a part pop off with katpon and hairspray on the board, so really i'm confused how it didn't stick.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Mar-Fri-16-Mar

Another i find, YMMV, is that i have to retreat the bed with hair spray (can we come up with another name?). before a print with the bed hot i will paint some acetone over the layer. the idea is to soften it up some. that seems to help. after awhile i find that too thick of a layer of hs and abs on the bed prevents sticking. then i have to clean the bed completely and reapply a new layer.

its not outrageous to think maybe the layer on the bed after being subjected to heat for such a long time, breaks down and need to be reapplied from scratch. that my current theory.

ok so hair spray. polymerized liquid adhesion compound. PLAC. im going to call it PLAC because its embarrassing to admit im using hair spray in my machine shop. :D :D
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby mdfast1 » 2013-Mar-Fri-16-Mar

Good point about the PLAC, I haven't reapplied. Well I raised up Z a bit and slowed it down - much better raft.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby drawcut » 2013-Mar-Sat-19-Mar

mdfast1 wrote:Thanks retireeJay, no wonder that wasn't changing my extruded values. When I printed with raft (grid) i didn't get much of a grid, I got more of a compact squished flat layer (made it really hard to remove from the part). I wonder what's going on there.


I just tried Kisslicer and while it's very promising so far, I get a very solid raft using the grid setting as well. Searching the Kisslicer forum, it looks like this is a known issue and the author is looking at adding some options. Which confuses me seeing Plexus' prints with the raft looking more like I would expect on top - something like a 80% infill layer. Not sure what is going on. Something between the mac and windows versions (I'm on windows)? First layer height or bed roughness? The raft does stick very well and I'm glad to have the option. I hope he adds brim as well as more raft options. May have to look into Cura as well since that seems to have more raft options. BTW - I'm using the latest beta version available in the Kisslicer forum.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby mdfast1 » 2013-Mar-Sun-21-Mar

I've gone ahead and moved my z start height up a bit and slowed it down a bit. The grid looked good (more like plexus's) but the part popped off the bed half way through. Even so, I tried removing the raft layer from the print and it still didn't come off easy. I'm printing the heart gears and the parts have a hole in the bottom so I need the raft to come off smooth. Anyway, I need to have the Z height closer and I guess I'll just settle for the smushed raft for now, I'd rather have it print and stay on the bed,then have a good looking raft.

Edit: I realized KISSlicer has limited fan control and my be a reason why my parts are popping off with ABS. It seems like it's Fan on/ Fan off/ Fan on perimeter only.

Edit #2: Ok upgraded to 1.1.0 beta and Kisslicer now has much better fan control.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Mar-Thu-23-Mar

I'm working on a project tonight that has a certain geometric construct such that I notice its printing much smoother with KISSlicer than Slic3r. here are screen shots of the layers. Slic3r would fill the gaps in the walls with a narrow bead of plastic. it the bead is wider than the extrusion diameter, it will fill it in using infill. for narrow spaces I am sure all of you that use Slic3r are away of the modes where it vibrates your printer because its wiggling the hot end to fill in the space.

With KISSlicer, it tends more to straight lines. this results in a smother and faster print. less wear on the printer as well.

The vertical walls on this are 75mm tall. can you imagine this printing with Slic3r gcode? it would be annoying. in those cases I would modify the wall width to prevent this vibration of infill. but the software should do i want without being annoying, IMHO.

Slic3r's cut of this would likely be more structurally strong and the interior corners sharper than KISSlicer... i will wait to see the final product to determine theory vs reality.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby nepaholic » 2013-Mar-Fri-05-Mar

i love it how smooth kisslicer runs. but i have issues with my first layers.
I´m using the beta and the first solid layers are not filled correctly.... after 2-3 layers it start filling correctly...
plus i have trouble if using a grid for first layer it is very hard to remove it from the printed parts :(
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Mar-Fri-11-Mar

nepaholic wrote:i love it how smooth kisslicer runs. but i have issues with my first layers.
I´m using the beta and the first solid layers are not filled correctly.... after 2-3 layers it start filling correctly...
plus i have trouble if using a grid for first layer it is very hard to remove it from the printed parts :(


hmmm. on mine everything is very nice. i get a good 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc layer and when using raft it just breaks off around the edges and mostly over the piece too, sometimes i have to trim with a blade.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby artem » 2013-Mar-Sat-10-Mar

Plexus,

Could you post your Prefix Gcode?

Thanks!
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby Jerrill » 2013-Mar-Sat-12-Mar

plexus,

What software are you using to generate the gcode views you've posted above. They look really nice... a lot nicer than Pronterface.

Thanks,
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby mdfast1 » 2013-Mar-Mon-00-Mar

Jerrill wrote:What software are you using to generate the gcode views


Jerrill that is repetier-host (http://www.repetier.com/download/).

I recommend it as well, I switched from pronterface to it as it's much better with many more controls and visuals.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby Jerrill » 2013-Mar-Mon-22-Mar

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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby Jerrill » 2013-Mar-Tue-00-Mar

It looks to me like there are rendering bugs in Repetier (left) vs. Pronterface (center) and KISSlicer (right). Has anyone else seen this in Repetier Host? It is definitely pretty, but that doesn't mean beans if it's not accurate.

repetier-vs-pronterface-vs-kisslicer.jpg


Jerrill
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby plexus » 2013-Mar-Tue-00-Mar

well that's a little bit goofy. took me awhile to spot the differences. but yeah. wow.

In other news...
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby RetireeJay » 2013-Mar-Tue-08-Mar

Are you displaying the exact same G-code file in the Repetier and Pronterface displays? I've noticed that depending on settings KISSlicer and Slic3r behave differently when it comes to including extremely thin vertical features. As in, KISSlicer will ignore them! (Unless, presumably, you figure out the right settings for trace thickness, number of walls, etc.)
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby Jerrill » 2013-Mar-Tue-17-Mar

RetireeJay,

Yep! It was the exact same g-code. I had the same though when I saw it, but I double checked it. I'll probably hop over to the Repetier forum and see what they say. It sounds like it's unusual based on your reactions. I just wanted a sanity check before I went over there to ask. I'll post back a link.

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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby phil_roberts » 2013-Apr-Mon-12-Apr

I've recently had issues slicing with KISSlicer and printing with Repetier. It's not just display either. The gcode is bad in Repetier, but appears fine in Printrun. I had to switch back to Slic3r. Haven't diagnosed the issue yet.

EDIT: not sure what I did, but it was my fault. Here's the fix. I downloaded the new release candidate for KISSlicer. It has a handy little drop down box where you can describe your skill level as Beginner, Medium, or Expert. Then, you can select the "Use Defaults" box to override any setting that is deemed above your level. I set it at Beginner, and my parts started slicing again
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby allanonmage » 2013-Jun-Wed-08-Jun

Hey @plexus I know that you've joined the KISSLicer marketing team recently (playful facetiousness :) ), but I've tried KISSLicer 3 or 4 times and only managed to make it actually extrude once. The print turned out very well, but I've not been able to get it to work properly since.

I saw a tutorial on this board, and that helped me to make it actually extrude material (1 setting needed to be changed), but ever since the UI changed and I can't get to certain settings. I've noticed that Slic3r and KISSlicer seem to forget most settings after I close them and reopen them. Thankfully this has happened so many times I've got lots of config files and practically memorized the settings anyways, but this is very frustrating for me as a new-to-3D-printing person. Is that just par for the course with this type of software? Is this some sort of feature and not a bug? Are these "features" to weed out the weak and n00bish?
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby RetireeJay » 2013-Jun-Wed-10-Jun

I once was a convert to KISSlicer, but Slic3r 9.9 has won me back. The big issue was keeping the non-extruding travel inside the object being printed. Slic3r 9.9 does much better now!

Here is the Repetier view of an object sliced by Slic3r 9.9
MyPartSlic3r99.JPG


And here is the same view of an object sliced by KISSlicer 1.1.0.5
MyPartKISS.JPG


Q.E.D.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby mdfast1 » 2013-Jun-Wed-13-Jun

Yep, I was wondering if those Slic3r changes really did fix their travel issues. I will need to give it a shot again.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby Mooselake » 2013-Jun-Fri-22-Jun

Slic3r 0.9.10 is available for download, although the main page hasn't been updated. Says support and bridging improvements.

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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby TutherJay » 2013-Oct-Mon-14-Oct

So I find all this discoursion on who's bester for slicing, and I was a sucker for a slight improvement that SOME folks seem to have experienced w/ KS. One thing that REALLY had me leaning toward KS was when there HAD to be support structure built up, but that was simply because KS seemed to default to INCLUDE support, while my S3 came w/ that DEselected. (So - genius - how hard is THAT to remedy? Just nevermind.)

Well, HERE'S the RUB!!!! I was already frustrated NO END at how many times I was having to READJUST and FIDDLE WITH my bed level adjustments, as I've posted elsewhere! It seems that I can NEVER count on printing a 2nd job without going ALL THROUGH IT AGAIN! Every time I've TRIED, it's gone BONKERS on me - usually dipping into the bed and tearing up the tape. BUT -- for this particular run, wherein I was using RHost to setup and triple-check the bed level, but running gcode produced by KS, I was horrified to find it tearing up tape AGAIN - particularly when I had been SO CAREFUL to get everything PERFECT before trying the 2nd attempt! WTF, Over?

Well, I decided to take a look at the KS gcode, and imagine my bewilderment to find that, in NUMEROUS places, it had inserted code to send Z BACK DOWN!!! NO WONDER it was tearing things up! SINCE WHEN - I screamed - is there ANY wisdom or safety in going back DOWN?

Well, in order to prove (once again) that the 3rd time is a charm, I ran the Slic3r gcode after the slight rebuild. Voila, and woo hooooo, and -

WAIT - I STILL don't know WHY KS did what it did. Anyone gots any plausible insights, by any chance?

jm
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby RetireeJay » 2013-Oct-Mon-14-Oct

On KISSlicer's Printer tab, Hardware sub-tab, there's an entry called Z-settle. If non-zero, what this does is introduce an overshoot on every raising of the Z axis, then a compensating downward movement to reach the true target Z placement. Maybe that's what you are seeing. The idea is that if your threaded rod / nut assembly has hysteresis, then by approaching the desired spot in the same direction every time you will get consistent Z placement.

In fact, Printrbots have the threaded rods pretty well pre-loaded so there's no hysteresis. Well, there can be hysteresis if your Z-axis nuts are turning with the screw and not being captured 100% rotationally stationary by the wooden frame. But you should fix that by using wing nuts or making plastic holders. So the Z settle field in KISSlicer should be zero.
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Re: KISSlicer Slic3r discussion and tips and tricks

Postby TutherJay » 2013-Oct-Mon-17-Oct

Hi RJ

BINGO on that metric being the source of what I saw to be DOWNWARD movement: all such just happen to be by that same amount: 0.25mm, which is what was in the Z-settle field. That's also in the bed roughness field, as it happens. So I can check THIS OFF as the cause, but I have yet to finger out just what on earth is making this such a maternal unit to dial in. Print one, botch a few, fight and tweak and adjust and, eventually, get another successful, but NEVER TWO IN A ROW!

Anyway, thanks for answering this one for me so I can get back to scratching my head for the RIGHT reason.

jm
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E3D v5 hotend w/ Volcano Eruption upgrade
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