First time user

Troubleshooting talk for software

First time user

Postby jmackniak » 2016-Oct-Mon-13-Oct

Simple w heat bed is what i assembled and now need to run. I am using Cura.

I am using my Simple for the first time. I assembled it. I cannot get the Z axis to move at all. it makes a humming noise like the motor is trying to work. It wont shut off until i turn it off. I can home x and Y . if i home ALL, the machine gets nasty. the x and y move fine however, both axis do not work at 100% capacity. i figure that can be changed when the machine is calibrated. I cannot even calibrate it.

I video taped it with my iphone, when i receive the video file i will try and post it here.
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Re: First time user

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Mon-17-Oct

Can you turn the z screw by hand, with the power off? Does it operate smoothly? This will let you tell if the mechanism is bound up, or if there's a problem with the motor, the circuitry that drives it, or the software settings like the Z's steps/mm.

What do you mean by the X and Y do not work at 100% capacity? They should have been calibrated at the factory so if you ask for 100mm you get 100mm (the extruder is an exception and will need to be calibrated). If X, Y, and/or Z are not properly calibrated there's something wrong out of the box.

Is this a new Simple, still under warranty? If so you need to let Printrbot know (we're an unofficial forum) to preserve your warranty. If it's not new what model is it, and what kind of drive mechanism? The oldest simples used fishing line on sandpaper drums (the exception to precalibrated, although the Z is), the recent ones use black belts and aluminum pulleys. Some older models are made from plywood, the newer versions are metal.

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Re: First time user

Postby frankv » 2016-Oct-Mon-18-Oct

What Kirk said. Plus... my first guess is a disconnect of one of the 4 wires to the Z motor.

Try switching the X (or Y) and Z axis motor connectors at the Printrboard. Beware that end-stops won't work properly now... don't use the Home button! Try moving in each axis... does the motor problem stay with the Z motor, or move to the X motor?

It may be a partial (intermittent) break... try wiggling the Z motor wires while it's doing it's weird buzzing and see if that changes the behaviour. You might be able to isolate where the break is.
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Re: First time user

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Mon-21-Oct

That's also a symptom of the Z steps/mm being set too high, or an improperly set current pot (or software setting for the F boards). While it's possible a new simple got out of the factory with hosed up settings it's not all that likely. On a used one, or a kit that's been sitting around for a long time, it's somewhat more likely. However it's best to rule out (or in) the things that can be tested without pulling plugs or fiddling with cables first, plus clarify just what model and what the issue is. A new owner won't have learned the lingo yet, it takes a while to learn the concepts and strange terms we use, so it might take a while to find the secret decoder ring.

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Re: First time user

Postby jmackniak » 2016-Oct-Tue-07-Oct

How do you post a video, i took one with my iphone? No i cannot turn the Z axis
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Re: First time user

Postby jmackniak » 2016-Oct-Tue-07-Oct

Mooselake wrote:Can you turn the z screw by hand, with the power off? Does it operate smoothly? This will let you tell if the mechanism is bound up, or if there's a problem with the motor, the circuitry that drives it, or the software settings like the Z's steps/mm.

What do you mean by the X and Y do not work at 100% capacity? They should have been calibrated at the factory so if you ask for 100mm you get 100mm (the extruder is an exception and will need to be calibrated). If X, Y, and/or Z are not properly calibrated there's something wrong out of the box.

Is this a new Simple, still under warranty? If so you need to let Printrbot know (we're an unofficial forum) to preserve your warranty. If it's not new what model is it, and what kind of drive mechanism? The oldest simples used fishing line on sandpaper drums (the exception to precalibrated, although the Z is), the recent ones use black belts and aluminum pulleys. Some older models are made from plywood, the newer versions are metal.

Kirk


yes the z must be bound up. It is a new simple with heat bed. black belts and aluminum wheels. If i press the x or y i dont get the full traverse- i am new to this product- so i maybe wrong. I currently have 2 makerbots.

thanks for your feedback
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Re: First time user

Postby jmackniak » 2016-Oct-Tue-07-Oct

Mooselake wrote:That's also a symptom of the Z steps/mm being set too high, or an improperly set current pot (or software setting for the F boards). While it's possible a new simple got out of the factory with hosed up settings it's not all that likely. On a used one, or a kit that's been sitting around for a long time, it's somewhat more likely. However it's best to rule out (or in) the things that can be tested without pulling plugs or fiddling with cables first, plus clarify just what model and what the issue is. A new owner won't have learned the lingo yet, it takes a while to learn the concepts and strange terms we use, so it might take a while to find the secret decoder ring.

Kirk



it is a 'kit' i put it together. I have been using makerbots for 2+ years now without much happiness
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Re: First time user

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Tue-12-Oct

If the z is stuck then either the motor is bound up, the bearing won't move, the screw/nut are stuck, or the z rods and screw don't line up. I'd guess it's in the screw or motor if it won't turn, so disconnect the coupling and see if it's the screw/nut or motor. Try to move the z with it off to see if the motor turns.

Edit: whoops, didn't see the comment about PB kit above on my tiny phone screen. >>If I understand correctly this is not from Printrbot and you've made the parts from the open source drawings?<<< wrong, it's an official kit

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Re: First time user

Postby cacb » 2016-Oct-Tue-12-Oct

jmackniak wrote:it is a 'kit' i put it together. I have been using makerbots for 2+ years now without much happiness


I put my kit together last year. First post in a series of 5 is at http://arnholm.org/printrbot-day1/

I am wondering if you somehow managed to put the Y motor assembly together in some wrong way, I seem to remember starting out wrong. There are a couple of lock screws on the Y motor pulley. If they manage to hit the Z screw (they should not), nothing will turn. Not sure if this is physically possible, but anyway.

See also the electric connector photo on my day3 post, it is certainly possible to get that wrong.
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Re: First time user

Postby frankv » 2016-Oct-Tue-13-Oct

Is the Z motor itself turning? Maybe it's just the coupler between the motor and the threaded rod that's loose?
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Re: First time user

Postby jmackniak » 2016-Oct-Wed-11-Oct

frankv wrote:Is the Z motor itself turning? Maybe it's just the coupler between the motor and the threaded rod that's loose?



the coupling was bound to the base, it did not have any clearance so it would not turn. Fixed it by raising the coupling up an 1/8". Now when i home it, as the z lowers, it sort of skips a beat and does not lower smooth.
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Re: First time user

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Wed-19-Oct

Go back to turning it by hand with the power off. If it binds it's a mechanical problem, otherwise it might be the motor power needs to be increased. You might also try using the Z up/down buttons to see what happens. If you don't do an explicit home then it thinks zero is where it was turned on. It'll go up, but not below where it started.

Try not to get discouraged. Besides the valuable learning experience 3D printing, like a lot of new activities, require a certain amount of forehead to wall application before you catch on. Must be one of those laws of the universe, although a very annoying one...

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Re: First time user

Postby jmackniak » 2016-Oct-Thu-11-Oct

Mooselake wrote:Go back to turning it by hand with the power off. If it binds it's a mechanical problem, otherwise it might be the motor power needs to be increased. You might also try using the Z up/down buttons to see what happens. If you don't do an explicit home then it thinks zero is where it was turned on. It'll go up, but not below where it started.

Try not to get discouraged. Besides the valuable learning experience 3D printing, like a lot of new activities, require a certain amount of forehead to wall application before you catch on. Must be one of those laws of the universe, although a very annoying one...

Kirk



I think i know what the issue is. the z axis does not sit/align straight on with the motor. I noticed this the other day when i had to remove the coupling. when i removed it i noticed the motor shaft and the rod do not line up perfect. So it is 'forced' on. If you sit facing the front you can actually see that the threaded rod drifts to the right at top. see the attached image
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Re: First time user

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Thu-11-Oct

Is it installed in an aluminum block, or does it go through a couple alignment holes? You'll need to realign it to make things work, but you're going to need somebody with the same model to tell you how if it's not obvious.

This is probably not the time for a bigger hammer, as you don't want to bend the rod. It could be as simple as loosening and tightening a couple screws.

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Re: First time user

Postby cacb » 2016-Oct-Thu-15-Oct

jmackniak wrote:I think i know what the issue is. the z axis does not sit/align straight on with the motor. I noticed this the other day when i had to remove the coupling. when i removed it i noticed the motor shaft and the rod do not line up perfect. So it is 'forced' on. If you sit facing the front you can actually see that the threaded rod drifts to the right at top. see the attached image


Check out the exploded view below of the bearings and Z axis motor. I have had it lying around.

exploded-view.jpeg


Notice the (delrin?) piece with threads for the z-axis acme screw. The threaded hole is not in the centre. If it was placed upside down it is possible you get in a lock like you describe. If this is the cause, you must disassemble.

There used to be a printrbot page with detailed assembly instructions for the kit, but the old link I had does not work anymore.
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Re: First time user

Postby cacb » 2016-Oct-Thu-16-Oct

Found the Printrbot guide https://printrbot.zendesk.com/hc/en-us/ ... rboard.pdf

Download and go to step 21, notice what is said in bold there: "NOTE: It is REALLY important to orient the black Z nut in the right direction. The threaded acme hole should sit closest to the motor and toward the back of the assembly. There is a also dimple on the z nut that goes towards the motor. To help with orientation."

It means it is possible to get this wrong, and I suspect it is your problem. You need to take it apart and reassemble it the right way.
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Re: First time user

Postby AZBotr » 2016-Oct-Thu-23-Oct

When I built mine I put the z-nut in backwards. The carriage would travel "better" the further away from the base along the Z axis, but as the carriage approached the base it would bind and eventually stop, and you'd see your Z screw torque off to the side like that. It's a simple fix, just flip the nut and it should be good. I don't know how that would impact the X and Y performance unless the power drain of straining that motor affected the other motors.
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