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Printrbot Talk Forum • View topic - How to fix everything

How to fix everything

Need help troubleshooting hardware issues... talk here

How to fix everything

Postby thoughtfix » 2013-Jul-Mon-00-Jul

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How to fix everything

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Re: How to fix everything

Postby thoughtfix » 2013-Jul-Mon-11-Jul

Thanks for the rep, guys. :D
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Re: How to fix everything

Postby drawcut » 2013-Jul-Mon-17-Jul

Excellent post. A great troubleshooting write up that could be applied to most any area.
  • 0

Printrbot original. Major mods: Y axis extended to ~8", Z extended to ~8.5". 5mm SS Z threaded rods w/ flex couplings. E3D hotend. Purchased Acetel gears. Glass bed with Elmers' purple glue stick for most prints. Top of Z axis rods have added cross structure similar to a Prusia i3.
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Re: How to fix everything

Postby thoughtfix » 2013-Jul-Mon-19-Jul

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Re: How to fix everything

Postby RetireeJay » 2013-Jul-Tue-08-Jul

Another way to think of this process is taught as the Scientific Method:

Observe the phenomenon, and find conditions under which it can be reliably reproduced

Develop one or several Hypotheses - theories that might explain your observations

Design a Test (or experiment) which will test the theory or theories
- NOTE 1: If possible, make ONLY ONE CHANGE at a time. When you have multiple interacting influences, this is the only way to isolate them and narrow down the possibilities
- NOTE 2: Sometimes you can't design a test which will unambiguously verify one theory, but the test should at least allow you to narrow down the number of theories.

Run the Test and observe the results carefully
- NOTE 1: It's very important to keep an open mind. If test results don't support your theory, or the results are ambiguous, then keep on developing theories.
- NOTE 2: Even if your test is flawed, such as you failed to set up some condition the way you intended, never ignore the observation step. I can personally vouch for the fact that significant inventions and even patents have resulted from "flawed" tests. That's because the test revealed some aspect of the problem that was totally unexpected and not anticipated in the design of the test.

If the observations are not explained, develop more theories

NOTE: Most of the time when you have equipment which has been operating correctly for a while and suddenly starts to misbehave, there is only a single root cause for the misbehavior. Resist the urge to make wholesale changes to the equipment all at once because that may mask or obscure the root cause of the problem, or introduce new and confounding problems.
  • 2

Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3, upgraded to MK3S
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Re: How to fix everything

Postby allanonmage » 2013-Jul-Tue-09-Jul

  • 1

Started with a Printrbot LC Kit; now it's a monster as big as a mid size fridge!
Single ATX Power supply, 650 watts, relay controlled heat bed
extra Z height (3+ ft) via longer rods, but I don't use it. Yet. To reduce wobble, I'm using thing:46082 under the Printrbot.
Dual heated beds, 1 currently working; space for a 3rd
Purple gluestick on glass seems to be sticky enough to get adhesion
FB album with pics: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... ec287e8726

This was supposed to be a tool, not a series of projects... grrrrr......
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Re: How to fix everything

Postby thoughtfix » 2013-Jul-Wed-15-Jul

Heh - that's true. There ARE mysteries about 3D printing but most of them are not in "how they work" but rather "what can we do with it?" If we're just using a PrintrBot to make PLA prints of little castles, we have all the information we need to get that done. If we want to do something new like modify a PrintrBot to sculpt icing on a cake, we have some mysteries to solve.

Damn ... now I want cake.
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Re: How to fix everything

Postby Bats1939 » 2013-Dec-Sun-16-Dec

But not all of us are engineers. I'm an artist. I make video games and toys. I think assuming that we're all engineers assumes that we all learn the same way or have a similar skill set... and that creates misunderstandings and confusion.

The problem with trouble shooting is that often times I'm not sure what to call parts or how to explain what's going on. Sometimes I don't even know the jargon to look up under the search. I'd love to learn how all the parts of my printer work- but that would involve me learning an entire new skill set and I'm not really sure I have time for that. I'm very focused on getting better at art and that takes up most of my time. I'm not expecting someone to just come over and fix my machine, although that would be nice, but I would hope that people realize I'm not being lazy, I'm just coming at the problem from an entirely different discipline.

Generally I have to see someone using the same machine and program fix the problem in order to really understand how to fix something myself. I've never been very good at the inner workings of machines themselves- it's art and modeling that I pick up and understand quickly. So things have to be dumbed down pretty far for me to understand it and I don't always understand written instruction. But I wouldn't expect you to understand how to bake normal maps or construct a mold with severe undercuts, because that's not your job that's mine! Everyone has a different skill set, so while you might understand how the printer works it, it's still a mystery to me. I think the hardest thing for me is the programming. RetireeJay has been really patient with me and my frustration with my machine and I really, really appreciate it. I wish I could contribute more, but it seems like most people are more interested in tinkering with the machine rather than the object to print. Which I can totally understand! For me, I understand the creation process better than the machine.

I think your breakdown will help to bridge the gap between, at least it gives me a better idea of how to explain the problem I have.
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Re: How to fix everything

Postby allanonmage » 2014-Aug-Sat-22-Aug

  • 2

Started with a Printrbot LC Kit; now it's a monster as big as a mid size fridge!
Single ATX Power supply, 650 watts, relay controlled heat bed
extra Z height (3+ ft) via longer rods, but I don't use it. Yet. To reduce wobble, I'm using thing:46082 under the Printrbot.
Dual heated beds, 1 currently working; space for a 3rd
Purple gluestick on glass seems to be sticky enough to get adhesion
FB album with pics: https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set ... ec287e8726

This was supposed to be a tool, not a series of projects... grrrrr......
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Re: How to fix everything

Postby Mooselake » 2014-Aug-Sun-12-Aug

Think of software as a machine with thousands to millions of moving parts. It's to complicated to remember exactly what each one does, aand some are always broken or put in upside down. Good testing (and documentation) isn't much fun, and is often rushed or neglected.

Python (or whatever) is a fad language of the moment. It's what the cool kids use, and because of that it must be the best there ever was. When it loses it's coolness you have to move on. That's why you can't get a good explanation, along with if it's made too hard for normal people to understand then only the cool people can do it <ducks, runs for cover> :)

Pretty soon Watson and brain simulating chips will take over programming. Hopefully it'll take longer to replace artists.

Kirk
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Modified KickStarter Classic Plus 7/2012
KS Thingybot Delta Pro 10/31/16
Creality Ender 3 Pro 12/2019
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Re: How to fix everything

Postby Mooselake » 2014-Aug-Sun-15-Aug

Coincidentally, this was just on slashdot. Microsoft may have , although I couldn't find the reference to the large electrical shock correction for behavior modification. Connect electrodes to the programmer's head and measure their brainwaves.

Glad I'm retired.

Kirk
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Modified KickStarter Classic Plus 7/2012
KS Thingybot Delta Pro 10/31/16
Creality Ender 3 Pro 12/2019
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Re: How to fix everything

Postby JavierVanegas » 2014-Aug-Wed-23-Aug

Well imagine my case, where I am almost at the position of the Artist (instead I am a future Politologist/Political Scientist). I do have a spirit for tinkering and electronics, but don't have the time to study it deeper either. Also my mother language is Spanish, and I live in South America. Most of the information on the web is 99% English (for western users I suppose), and at least 30% / 50% technical depending on the page you refer to. I do know how to disassemble my pc and put it back together, but from that to coming in touch with RepRap and Arduino for the first time, knowing what a G-code is (which I still don't think I fully understand). My Printrbot plus v2.1 is an investment which I need to make the most of, and as soon as possible (as things in my country aren't favorable to any kind of entrepreneurship), and if I take too long, "next semester is coming", and well, that explains itself. I love the whole concept of 3D printing, rapid prototyping or as you want to call it, but it's a whole new world, it needs quite an investment of time. One of the things I read from a book by Christopher D. Winnan is that "you need someone to share the frustration with", as in someone who either helps you or at least listens to you. I would add that you find a companion/partner that is in he same wave as you and helps you out in any way he can, or a group of guys. If all can have their own printers, even better. But for me it's hard, I am trying to do my best to move out of my country, but just like all countries that are being driven into communism, that is harder everyday.
  • 0

Printrbot Plus v2.1 . Exactly as it comes (with heat bed)
PLA BluMat 1.75mm.
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