Stops Extruding Mid Print

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Stops Extruding Mid Print

Postby b3nnb » 2018-Mar-Sat-19-Mar

Ok, so i have the simple metal with an e3d v6 that has been working great for a long time. i have the X and Z upgrades installed, and recently installed a rev.F6 printrboard and the extruder gears so i could print flexible filament.
the rev.F6 was working pretty damn good before putting the gears on but every once and a while a print would stop extruding mid print. but now with the gears installed i have not had a print, any bigger then a lego piece complete. i have spent so much time aligning the gears that im confident they are perfectly aligned. i have re-flashed the firmware and made sure the right sensor in the marlin config was selected for the e3d. i have tried printing temp tests and it always just stops at random spots.
i have rebuilt my extruder to make sure there are no clogs and that all the PTFE tube and everything is properly installed. other then putting the original extruder gear back in place im at a loss for what to do.

Can anyone help figure out what might be going on here?
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Stops Extruding Mid Print

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Re: Stops Extruding Mid Print

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Mar-Sat-20-Mar

When it stops printing, I take it that you mean it stops extruding but the X, Y, and Z motions continue?

When it stops extruding, can you hear clicks coming from the extruder and perhaps see the gear starting to turn in the correct direction but then hop back a bit each time it clicks?

If that is the case, then the motor isn't able to push the filament through the hot end at the desired rate. In that case, in general you have four things you can try:
(1) Slow down the print speed so the plastic has more time to melt in the hot zone before extruding through the nozzle, or
(2) Increase the hot end temperature so that the plastic liquefies more completely and faster (but you've done that) [If, by accident, you have the wrong thermistor table (even though you tried to use the right one) you could be off by 40 degrees. So be generous with your temperature trials to see if you can fix the problem with temperature], or
(3) Check for charred filament or foreign matter that's blocking part of the path through the extruder (but you've done that), or
(4) Increase the power to the motor. This is done with instructions in the M900 series - you can find full instructions on this forum and I'm sure many other places.

By the way, don't waste your time re-flashing the firmware until you have absolutely exhausted all other possibilities. It's really very rare for the firmware to need re-flashing.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Stops Extruding Mid Print

Postby b3nnb » 2018-Mar-Mon-10-Mar

Thanks for replying,

the gear keeps on moving, theres usually no clicking noise it just strips the filament, and ya all the axis keep moving to finish the print.

i will try going hotter. i have tried up to 220 on PLA and gotten the same results.
it always stops extruding when the print gets about an inch tall, after a couple hours of printing. i keep thinking its heat creep.
and i have replaced the e3d with a new one already and getting the same results.
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Re: Stops Extruding Mid Print

Postby b3nnb » 2018-Mar-Mon-13-Mar

so i tried super hot and it still happens. i got to hear the issue, its one little grind of the filament and then the filament stops moving cause the gear stripped it
i tried extending me retraction to 4.5mm and really slow retraction speed of about 40mm/s and same issue
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Re: Stops Extruding Mid Print

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Mar-Mon-14-Mar

Wait a minute! Are you seriously trying to use a retraction length of 4.5mm on an E3D?? Their recommendation is to use less than 0.5mm of retraction. All extruder bodies have a gradient of temperature inside, where the filament enters at room temperature and exits the hot zone in a melted state. The E3D series of extruders, in particular, have a very abrupt transition from cool to hot. So if you have pushed filament down into the hot zone, where it melts, and then you pull it back into the cool zone, it's very likely to solidify while adhering to the wall of the tube. Which jams the extruder.

You might want to take some steps to clear out any solidified plastic in the extruder, and then try a print with ZERO retraction. You might get some strings, but at least you'll find out if retraction is the cause of your problem. Then increase the retraction in increments of 0.1mm until you have a reasonably satisfactory print. But don't go over 0.5mm.

Generically, when the gear started out pushing the filament through the extruder body OK, but then became unable to push the filament through (in spite of adequate temperature and a slow enough printing rate), it's called "extruder jamming", so you can search for that term on this forum and with Google for more hints.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3, upgraded to MK3S
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Re: Stops Extruding Mid Print

Postby b3nnb » 2018-Mar-Mon-14-Mar

Yup, i was just saying that was a one time attempt while trying to figure out why its eating the filament. it was always .8 and worked perfectly since i got the printrbot a couple years ago.

i will try the starting at 0 and working my way up. for the cleaning i do have a cleaner filament that i run through the printer every couple oif days, plus i have the little nozzle cleaning tools that i use often as well. more so now with all the ripping of the filament.

Thanks a million and i will keep ya posted
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Re: Stops Extruding Mid Print

Postby b3nnb » 2018-Mar-Mon-22-Mar

well .... that was it. everything printed fine.

Thanks a million!!!
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Re: Stops Extruding Mid Print

Postby b3nnb » 2018-Mar-Wed-16-Mar

Ok so the retraction helped a lot but i think there is one more issue with temp.

You were talking about checking the thermistor table, do you just mean the designations within the firmware? that was the reference i used to update the setting. but i have a laser temp gun and im not sure if its having issues cause of the reflectiveness of the heat block but its always really low compared to what the thermistor says its at.

Any recommendations on how to confirm and get the temp right??
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Re: Stops Extruding Mid Print

Postby RetireeJay » 2018-Mar-Wed-16-Mar

Remote sensing temperature probes are very sensitive to the reflectivity of the surface they are measuring, so I wouldn't be too concerned about it not matching your setpoint. If you are using an E3D with the thermistor that it came with, you should be using Table 5.
Ultimately, getting good prints is the bottom line. If your temperature is calibrated in "degrees b3nnb" that's fine as long as you get good prints.
Here's the Temperature section from Configuration.h that I'm using. Temp_Sensor_0 is the one for the standard extruder.
Code: Select all
//===========================================================================
//============================= Thermal Settings ============================
//===========================================================================

/**
 * --NORMAL IS 4.7kohm PULLUP!-- 1kohm pullup can be used on hotend sensor, using correct resistor and table
 *
 * Temperature sensors available:
 *
 *    -3 : thermocouple with MAX31855 (only for sensor 0)
 *    -2 : thermocouple with MAX6675 (only for sensor 0)
 *    -1 : thermocouple with AD595
 *     0 : not used
 *     1 : 100k thermistor - best choice for EPCOS 100k (4.7k pullup)
 *     2 : 200k thermistor - ATC Semitec 204GT-2 (4.7k pullup)
 *     3 : Mendel-parts thermistor (4.7k pullup)
 *     4 : 10k thermistor !! do not use it for a hotend. It gives bad resolution at high temp. !!
 *     5 : 100K thermistor - ATC Semitec 104GT-2 (Used in ParCan & J-Head) (4.7k pullup)
 *     6 : 100k EPCOS - Not as accurate as table 1 (created using a fluke thermocouple) (4.7k pullup)
 *     7 : 100k Honeywell thermistor 135-104LAG-J01 (4.7k pullup)
 *    71 : 100k Honeywell thermistor 135-104LAF-J01 (4.7k pullup)
 *     8 : 100k 0603 SMD Vishay NTCS0603E3104FXT (4.7k pullup)
 *     9 : 100k GE Sensing AL03006-58.2K-97-G1 (4.7k pullup)
 *    10 : 100k RS thermistor 198-961 (4.7k pullup)
 *    11 : 100k beta 3950 1% thermistor (4.7k pullup)
 *    12 : 100k 0603 SMD Vishay NTCS0603E3104FXT (4.7k pullup) (calibrated for Makibox hot bed)
 *    13 : 100k Hisens 3950  1% up to 300°C for hotend "Simple ONE " & "Hotend "All In ONE"
 *    20 : the PT100 circuit found in the Ultimainboard V2.x
 *    60 : 100k Maker's Tool Works Kapton Bed Thermistor beta=3950
 *    66 : 4.7M High Temperature thermistor from Dyze Design
 *    70 : the 100K thermistor found in the bq Hephestos 2
 *    75 : 100k Generic Silicon Heat Pad with NTC 100K MGB18-104F39050L32 thermistor
 *
 *       1k ohm pullup tables - This is atypical, and requires changing out the 4.7k pullup for 1k.
 *                              (but gives greater accuracy and more stable PID)
 *    51 : 100k thermistor - EPCOS (1k pullup)
 *    52 : 200k thermistor - ATC Semitec 204GT-2 (1k pullup)
 *    55 : 100k thermistor - ATC Semitec 104GT-2 (Used in ParCan & J-Head) (1k pullup)
 *
 *  1047 : Pt1000 with 4k7 pullup
 *  1010 : Pt1000 with 1k pullup (non standard)
 *   147 : Pt100 with 4k7 pullup
 *   110 : Pt100 with 1k pullup (non standard)
 *
 *         Use these for Testing or Development purposes. NEVER for production machine.
 *   998 : Dummy Table that ALWAYS reads 25°C or the temperature defined below.
 *   999 : Dummy Table that ALWAYS reads 100°C or the temperature defined below.
 *
 * :{ '0': "Not used", '1':"100k / 4.7k - EPCOS", '2':"200k / 4.7k - ATC Semitec 204GT-2", '3':"Mendel-parts / 4.7k", '4':"10k !! do not use for a hotend. Bad resolution at high temp. !!", '5':"100K / 4.7k - ATC Semitec 104GT-2 (Used in ParCan & J-Head)", '6':"100k / 4.7k EPCOS - Not as accurate as Table 1", '7':"100k / 4.7k Honeywell 135-104LAG-J01", '8':"100k / 4.7k 0603 SMD Vishay NTCS0603E3104FXT", '9':"100k / 4.7k GE Sensing AL03006-58.2K-97-G1", '10':"100k / 4.7k RS 198-961", '11':"100k / 4.7k beta 3950 1%", '12':"100k / 4.7k 0603 SMD Vishay NTCS0603E3104FXT (calibrated for Makibox hot bed)", '13':"100k Hisens 3950  1% up to 300°C for hotend 'Simple ONE ' & hotend 'All In ONE'", '20':"PT100 (Ultimainboard V2.x)", '51':"100k / 1k - EPCOS", '52':"200k / 1k - ATC Semitec 204GT-2", '55':"100k / 1k - ATC Semitec 104GT-2 (Used in ParCan & J-Head)", '60':"100k Maker's Tool Works Kapton Bed Thermistor beta=3950", '66':"Dyze Design 4.7M High Temperature thermistor", '70':"the 100K thermistor found in the bq Hephestos 2", '71':"100k / 4.7k Honeywell 135-104LAF-J01", '147':"Pt100 / 4.7k", '1047':"Pt1000 / 4.7k", '110':"Pt100 / 1k (non-standard)", '1010':"Pt1000 / 1k (non standard)", '-3':"Thermocouple + MAX31855 (only for sensor 0)", '-2':"Thermocouple + MAX6675 (only for sensor 0)", '-1':"Thermocouple + AD595",'998':"Dummy 1", '999':"Dummy 2" }
 */
#define TEMP_SENSOR_0 5
#define TEMP_SENSOR_1 0
#define TEMP_SENSOR_2 0
#define TEMP_SENSOR_3 0
#define TEMP_SENSOR_4 0
#define TEMP_SENSOR_BED 1
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3, upgraded to MK3S
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Re: Stops Extruding Mid Print

Postby Mooselake » 2018-Mar-Fri-11-Mar

A long time ago our illustrious leader Plexus did some serious temperature testing and hotend calibration. I've located one of his topics, but there's more to be found in the archives.

Kirk
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