Extruder / Hotend not heating

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Extruder / Hotend not heating

Postby marko118 » 2016-Nov-Fri-16-Nov

Hi All,

I have an old wooden PB simple , My extruder is no longer heating, It reads room temperature on Repetier, and registers the body temperature increase if I hold my hand over it, but doesn't heat up. I have checked the voltage on the cables that connect the hotend to the printrboard, and it shows 12 volts. I presume that's correct, So do I just need to buy a new hotend, or is there anyting else I should check?, any help appreciated.
Thanks,

Mark

Also, If i should replace the hotend, should I buy the new ubis 13S ? or the ceramic one - my printer is 3 years old.
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Last edited by marko118 on 2016-Nov-Fri-16-Nov, edited 1 time in total.
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Extruder / Hotend not heating

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Re: Extruder / Hotend not heating

Postby frankv » 2016-Nov-Fri-16-Nov

A broken wire between board and hot-end is the most likely cause. Look close to the hot-end at the fat red wires... if there's flexing of the wires there, that's most likely where it will break. If not there, look at other points along the wire where it has small radius bends, tight cable ties, or flexes a lot. However, it's likely that the break is inside the wire, in the copper, and the plastic insulation is unbroken, so there may not be anything to see.

You could try running some more wire from the board to the heater, connecting them as close as possible to the hot-end.

If you've got the original PB brown epoxy type hot-end, then you may have to replace it if the break is very close to the hot-end. You might want to consider replacing it with an E3D-style hot-end... at least then if the wire breaks, it's just a matter of replacing the heater cartridge rather than the entire hot-end. But beware the Chinese clones... some of them just won't work at all. (OTOH, I have a hot-end made up of parts from 3 Chinese "E3D" hot-ends (all different), which does work).
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Re: Extruder / Hotend not heating

Postby marko118 » 2016-Nov-Fri-16-Nov

Thanks Frankv, Just found the problem - on inspection, one of the fat red wires simply came away , right where it joins the hotend. probably 3 years of flexing - don't think it can be soldered, So I'll take your advise and try an E3D hot end, any recommendations on where to buy a non spurious one?
Cheers,
Mark
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Re: Extruder / Hotend not heating

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Nov-Fri-16-Nov

marko118 wrote:any recommendations on where to buy a non spurious one?

http://e3d-online.com/

But be aware that E3D's are shorter than the Ubis. Depending on how your printer is configured, this may or may not be a problem. The E3D V5 is only a few mm shorter; the V6 is significantly shorter.

You might want to look at postings about Cable Chain in the forum to see how to avoid fatigue failure of your wires.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Extruder / Hotend not heating

Postby marko118 » 2016-Nov-Fri-17-Nov

Thanks RetireeJay, would you also recommend the ed3 over the ubis hotend? I only ask because if I don't need to make changes to the printer, then I won't bother ( 3 young kids, and not much time for fiddling!)
Thanks,

Mark
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Re: Extruder / Hotend not heating

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Nov-Fri-20-Nov

I guess each has its partisans.

When I started out with the E3D, it seemed to be harder to use than my (old ceramic) Ubis, but I have adjusted now to the characteristics for temperature, print speed, and retraction distance so I'm using it very reliably. (I also had quite a bit of difficulty with a slight offset inside the E3D, where the bore of the aluminum body was not absolutely perfectly aligned with the bore of the threaded steel "heat break" tube that connects to the heater and nozzle block, thus creating a "ridge" that snagged the teeth marks. I finally solved that by finding the precise rotation angle of the threaded tube where the "ridge" was opposite the side with the teeth marks.)

I remember Plexus saying he really liked the E3D because "it just works," but for me it was a learning curve. I guess if you could put two machines side-by-side, with each one thoroughly "tuned up" for the particular extruder, you might find some quantifiable differences, such as maximum print speed or print quality - but I think the differences would not be huge. So bottom line, my personal take on it is that there's no overwhelming reason to choose either one over the other. They're both good. But I caution you, that's just my opinion; I am sure others disagree.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Extruder / Hotend not heating

Postby frankv » 2016-Nov-Fri-21-Nov

RJ's right, and I forgot. I had to make a "shelf" (from a piece of aluminium angle I had laying around) to mount my E3D on. There were also gotchas relating to screw positions, and I recall I had to cut a bit out of the plywood where it could hit the X-axis attachment screw.

I can't recommend any particular E3D... I've never used a genuine one, and had a lot of trouble with Chinese copies. OTOH, my Delta came with (I assume... it was a cheap kit) a Chinese E3D copy, and it's been excellent.

If you do go the E3D route, buy some spare heater cartridges and thermistors... they're cheap as from China. Maybe it's my pork sausage fingers or fading eyesight or rush to get things working again, but it seems that almost every time I fiddle with something at the hot-end, I break a heater or fan or thermistor wire.

To prevent wire breaks at the hot-end, the wiring needs to be *rigidly* attached to the carriage, so that all flexing is done over the full length of the wire. Also attach rigidly at the back of the printer, otherwise it'll break there next.
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Re: Extruder / Hotend not heating

Postby dimonic » 2016-Dec-Mon-11-Dec

I too have a hot-end that isn't (on a printrbot 1405 wooden). It shows ambient temperature (goes up if I hold the tip in my hand). It was printing last time I used it - fired it up after a lengthy hiatus and nothing doing. I ordered a replacement hot-end from the makers.

After ordering, I thought to stuck a meter across the incoming heater wires and I don't see a voltage. Would I be right in suspecting the MOSFET? Could it be an insufficient power supply? I have misplaced the original supply and I am using a random laptop supply that produces 19v DC.
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Re: Extruder / Hotend not heating

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Dec-Mon-16-Dec

19V is very high for the Printrboard. It's designed around 12V, and some of the components have a 20V maximum rating.

Assuming that you had the Printrboard calling for heat, then there should be voltage on the leads going to the heater. Check for breaks in the wires. Or unplug the cable and check right at the pins (or screw terminals) on the Printrboard. It's possible that your MOSFET is burned out, but not very likely.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
User avatar
RetireeJay
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Re: Extruder / Hotend not heating

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Dec-Mon-22-Dec

I'm using my phone and can't find the post, but the maximum voltage was discussed here several years ago. The board's designer commented on the maximum safe voltage, and 19V may have exceeded it. It's also possible you've exceeded the bed's mosfet's max current (higher voltage/higher current...). A bit of searching should find the discussion

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