Printrbot Original

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Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Tue-17-Oct

Hey guys I'm new to the 3d printing world and this site. So long story short I bought a printrbot original the one from the 2011 kickstarter from a guy on eBay cause I thought it was a great deal and I wanted to get into 3d printing. When it arrived I had assembled it but it never came with a board i finally found a file for the board and ordered it through Ponoko, it should be coming in next week. Before that I had a temporary board that I cut and mounted the bed to it. I installed pronterface and cura for the g codes and I learned how to configure the steps per millimeter and everything but when I hit print the printer basically made a blob I found out that i need the newest software and when I looked in the github for printrbot there was not any thing that said for rev b boards. Can someone tell me where I can find the file and also where I can get the springs for leveling the bed. Thanks
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Oct-Tue-21-Oct

I'm sorry, but posting twice won't make you more noticed. The active users of this forum all use "View Active Topics" so new postings show up in red. It may take two or three days before all the active helpers look at your original post; we have people from all around the world who participate, so your daytime is their bedtime, etc. And many people have jobs and families that limit their time on the forum. I'd say don't think your question has been "un-answered" until it's been up on the board for nearly a week.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Tue-21-Oct

What RJ said... Multiple posts of the same thing just clutter up the forum. We've almost all done it, once.

Let's start with what do you mean by a board? A 2x4? A circuit board? A precut piece of plywood that's missing?

You don't need to update the Printrboard firmware. I still have the original Printrboard and it will work with the latest Cura, Slic3r, etc. Lots of bad info around about reflashing firmware. Causes more problems than it fixes.

You don't need springs, although some people seem to like them. Iirc cut down ballpoint pen springs will work, or you can buy 3D printer springs on Amazon, eBay, or myriad other places. For now use cardboard, paper, whatever fits. You can't print directly on the red circuit board; many if us including me put a piece if window glass over it.

Original Printrbots don't just work out of the box. You need to adjust them (it's called calibrating) to get them to work. Every one of the 3D printed part machines was a little different. Take some pictures if your printer (about 640 x something resolution is good) and attach them to a post. You can't use an offsite link, but you can use the advanced editor to upload them.

It takes a fair amount of effort to get started printing, lots of new things to learn up front, but it will get easier and become fun if you stick with it. Welcome to 3D printing and the forum!

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Tue-22-Oct

Moose lake, unfortunately I have already flashed the software to something called "Marlin_Marline_Simple(I believe) I know that it should be for the printrbot simple but in a step by step guide I found that it is for anyone that has a rev d or previous board so I thought that I could adjust the settings later. And I was talking about the precut plywood, I have already found file for it and am getting it cut from ponoko. And sorry about the unnecessary clutter I just thought I had posted my question in the wrong section and I meant to take it down but did not get the time.
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Thu-09-Oct

Do you know where I can find a proper hex file for the 6" by 6" printrbot original rev b?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Oct-Thu-10-Oct

Isn't that what you have on your Printrboard already?
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Thu-11-Oct

No, he reflashed it.

Kirk
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby PxT » 2016-Oct-Thu-12-Oct

Msmaster321 wrote:Do you know where I can find a proper hex file for the 6" by 6" printrbot original rev b?


The original printrbot (the one they retroactively labeled model #1111) should run just fine on the Unified v3 firmware:
https://github.com/Printrbot/Marlin/rel ... v3.cpp.hex

That's the officially sanctioned release for your machine.

After you flash the firmware, configure the proper bed size by running this GCODE followed by "M500":
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/Print ... inal.gcode
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Thu-14-Oct

Thanks PxT, I will let you know how that turns out for me once my precut plywood comes in
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Sat-16-Oct

Hey guys I got the precut wood today and the printrbot calibrated but when I printed something with play it only went left and right instead of making a complete triangle
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Oct-Sat-17-Oct

First off, use the "manual" controls in your User Interface (Cura, Repetier...) to move the machine around in both X and Y. Does it move when you tell it to, and move as far as you asked? If it doesn't move at all on the Y axis, can you hear it trying to move or is it silent? If it's grinding and trying to move, then look for a mechanical jam. If it makes a smooth whirring sound but the bed doesn't move, then maybe your motor is moving but the Y axis belt is not - which could be caused by the setscrew (aka grubscrew) in the toothed pulley not being tightened. The screw should be firmly pressing against the flat on the shaft. If there's no sound at all, then check the wiring to the motor.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Sat-18-Oct

Yes It was due to the grubscrew not being tightened all the way, another problem is that when the printer "homes" on the y axis then it moves towards me and that is not where the endstop is, so for this I moved the endstop on the side towards me but when I tried the y 'home" again the y axis moved away from me, so I am confused on why the y axis "Homes" in either direction
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Oct-Sat-19-Oct

The firmware only has one direction to go towards "home." Some Printrbots "home" to Y = 0 and some "home" to Y = max. The firmware and the UI (Cura or Repetier...) have to be in agreement about what is defined as "home." But it's universally true that X = 0 when it's at the extreme left of the bed and Y = 0 when the nozzle is over the part of the bed that's closest to you. If you have flashed the "Universal" Marlin firmware, then I'm 99% certain that the firmware expects the Y "home" position to be at Y = 0. Try doing an M503 command to see what's in your EEPROM; it might have a setting for whether Y home is at zero or max; if so, you can change that if you need to.

If an X or Y "home" switch is active (triggered) when you give a "home" command, it will actually back off a few mm and then approach the switch again to ascertain exactly where the switch changes state. This could make you think that it's going the wrong direction, but only briefly. When you moved the switch physically from one end of travel to the other, that should have no effect whatever on the direction that the firmware tries to go to find "home."

There's a command to check the status of the "endstop" (or "home") switches; search the forum and it'll pop up quickly I'm sure. This is very useful for debugging, for example if the Printrboard thinks a switch is always activated or never activated.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Sun-09-Oct

I only received 1 vinyle tube with the kit for the z motors, so what I did what cut it in half but I dont think that is efficient, do you know if there is a substitute for this or where I can buy some without buying a whole yards worth?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Sun-11-Oct

You cut the vinyl tube into two short pieces, since they only need to cover the area under the printed coupler. There should be more, possibly much more (hard to remember 4+ years later) tubing than you need. I don't remember if they go over the motor shaft or the end of the Z screw (mine are long gone, replaced with what we call lovejoy couplers in the states, but are called plum couplings from the eBay sources) but it'll be obvious which end they go over. Iirc they recommended that you soften them in hot water (dry them off/shake out the innards, rust never sleeps), but try them dry first. I think they were maybe 3/8 or half an inch, but check against your coupling (they only go to the halfway mark), and leave a hair (say 1/16"/2mm) sticking out.

They're actually a good method of providing a bit of flex between the motors and Z screws. Almost nothing ever lines up properly so that little bit of give will handle the little difference between the line (and center) of the motor shaft and the Z screws. Otherwise they'd want to jam.

The coupling clamps over the tubing and friction holds it all together. You don't need to get out that 4 foot (or one meter) cheater pipe to tighten it, just good enough it's snug and a little bit more. You want the gaps at the sides to be the same (mk1 eyeball is good enough, although I used a digital caliper to get them the same, overly excessive moose...).

There were some recommendations from those days to put a BB (as in BB gun, 0.177" metal ball) between the stepper shaft and Z screw, to give it something to pivot on. I bought a tube, but never installed them. I pulled the screw up a tiny bit so there was a gap between the shafts and no metal to metal contact. That gives the screw some space to move within the coupling without binding, and reduces the chance (and/or amount) of Z ribbing.

I used the tubing/plastic couplings for several years with good results, before upgrading the Z screws to TR8-8 screws and the fancy couplings. PB's method was pretty decent, no need to change until you've been using it a while and decide if you want to start on the mod route. At this late date I'd recommend keeping it pretty close to what you got, and if you outgrow it move to another machine. You can spend more time and money on modding this old design than it'll cost you to move up to the whizzbot 28 super printer...

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Sun-13-Oct

Thanks Kirk, I found that what I have right now is fine, one last thing is the extruder, the gear is warped and it rubs against the plastic part even with the spacer in place and sometimes it extrudes but when I want it to it does not extrude
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Sun-15-Oct

Even if I get the extruder going, the base is warped at the bottom and the guys from the duke marine lab have printed only a few parts out for me ( the zendstop and the pulley I broke), right now they are using their 3d printers I dont know how to get more parts besides paying someone $50 which is a lot of money.
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Wed-13-Oct

Hey guys seems like luck is on my side, I got the gear going but now I am using PLA 1.75 mm, and when i try to extrude PLA it seams like it is not feeding properly, I have to put the roll directly above the printer because if the roll is on the right or left the plastic is curved and it has a hard time moving it down, does anyone else have this problem? Do I need to keep the roll directly above the printer so the filement can go straight down?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby ktfergus » 2016-Oct-Wed-19-Oct

Try looking around thingiverse for a filament guide to align the filament as it enters the extruder.

Not sure of the exact dimensions of your bot, but here's one I found which might work: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:285680

You're more brave than I am to cut your teeth on an older printer; I had my hands full with a simple metal... Best of luck.

-Kelly
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Thu-09-Oct

I printed a gadget from Thingiverse with a 608 bearing in it when I first got my plywood plus. I sits on top of one of the z rods, and is still there being used 4+ years later.

My filament is on a stand made from PVC pipe using two inverted Ts and a couple elbows, although it used to sit on a dowel held up by an old PC power supply and a box. Make sure that the spool will fit over whatever you use; one of my spools has a hole too small for the half inch pipe.

Kirk

Edit: it took some searching, but I found it. This is for a plus, which used bigger Z rods. Here's one for the LC, which used smaller Z rods.
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Thu-09-Oct

Back when the older printers weren't old we managed. :)

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Guyverblue » 2016-Oct-Thu-15-Oct

Msmaster321 wrote:Hey guys seems like luck is on my side, I got the gear going but now I am using PLA 1.75 mm, and when i try to extrude PLA it seams like it is not feeding properly, I have to put the roll directly above the printer because if the roll is on the right or left the plastic is curved and it has a hard time moving it down, does anyone else have this problem? Do I need to keep the roll directly above the printer so the filement can go straight down?


Someone else can chime in but didn't the older printers use 3mm filament instead of 1.75?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Thu-18-Oct

Good catch, all the original Kickstarter printers shipped before the 1.75 direct drive craze and used 3mm filament.

The picture shows part of an extruder drive gear, which makes it the original 3.0 mm Wades. You need 3.0mm filament, 1.75 likely won't without substantial modification. Best to just order (or trade your 1.75 for) some 3.0mm. The only advantage of 1.75 over 3.0 is you can use a cheaper direct drive extruder, but since you already have the extruder that doesn't affect you.

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Thu-21-Oct

I actually do have the 3 mm abs that came with it, I was just trying to use PLA because it was a little easier
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Thu-23-Oct

Hey guys I never got to say thanks for the files they are very useful, when I tried to print I noticed that the print would move closer to the left after a minute is this because the x axis is slipping?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Fri-16-Oct

Ok guys this is what it does is doing, any suggestions on the settings?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Oct-Fri-20-Oct

My first suggestion would be to anchor the wires going to the hot end differently. This is very important. The wires closest to the hot end are difficult or impossible to replace, and they are typically not designed to be flexed. The wires on the other side of the connector are (relatively) easy to replace and they are probably designed to withstand flexing better. So anchor the black, red, and white wires somewhere on the extruder supporting structure and make sure the short wires with clear insulation don't bend AT ALL in normal operation.

If you are trying to run 1.75mm filament through an extruder designed for 3mm, just stop trying; it's never going to work well.

What we are seeing is under-extrusion. Is the extruder motor going "tick" "tick" every once in a while (and the large white gear hopping in the reverse direction when it does so)? If so, that means the force required to move the filament is more than the motor can generate. Check five things in this order: (1) Is the incoming filament free to move? Your spool needs to be supported in a way that it can rotate easily. (2) Is there a "filament guide" to keep the incoming filament aligned with the hobbed groove in the driving bolt? If not, make one (there are many designs available from many sources; try Thingiverse). (3) Are the body of the hot end and the nozzle free of charred filament or other obstruction? (PLA can "char" if it sits in a heated extruder for too long). There are many threads in the forum about clearing jammed extruders. (4) Are the teeth in the hobbed bolt clean? If there's plastic in the grooves, the teeth won't be as effective. This won't make the motor go "tick" but it will cause the drive to slip on the filament. (5)If all else checks out good, then consider increasing the drive current to the extruder motor. [I've done or seen all of these things -- except charring of PLA, because I don't use PLA]
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Fri-22-Oct

You are right RJ, I realized that the 1.75 mm does not move enough, I tried using my 3 mm abs which extruded relatively quite well but my bed won't go to a 100 c the temperature that ABS sticks on, that is why I tried PLA because I read it was easier, I actually ordered a 3mm PLA today and will recieve it by next week, if all goes well then I should be up and running in no time.
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Sat-13-Oct

Put some cardboard under the heated bed (like a cut up Amazon box), and use another piece as a lid while it heats up. That's what I did before getting the 29A power supply, the insulation makes up for the wimpy DevilTech original power supply's lack of adequate watts. Like much of the first PBs everything was sized to a limited budget since almost everybody underestimates what it'll cost to actually deliver their KS project. That should get you printing with ABS; also read up on "ABS juice" as a sticking agent.

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Sun-11-Oct

Hey guys so I got bigger filement but it seems to be discolored and also the first layer looks to be 3mm hover thab thand bed so it does not squash down
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Mon-15-Oct

I also in every print get a y drift where the print layers are not overlapping it is going slightly to the left. This is causing the print to look slanted.
I made sure my belt is nice and tight, I read something about adjusting the "pots" for the motor, will this help, and does anyone know if they had to do this to their board or if it was already ready to go?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Tue-18-Oct

Can anyone explain why this is crooked?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby frankv » 2016-Oct-Tue-19-Oct

Your X,Y,Z axes aren't orthogonal?

I know that on my Simple, the Y axis sagged more the further it was extended. I did adjust the bed to match the slope of the Y axis, but they were at an angle to the Z axis.
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Thu-18-Oct

Cura says tweaking at 5mm at z or something along the lines, could that do it?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Thu-20-Oct

This is a two post Z design with posts on both sides, not the single sided Z on the simple. If the Y is sagging it's because one of the two Z screws aren't aren't adjusted the same.

To check mine I use a piece of copier paper (or an automotive feeler gauge if it's handy), and turn the Z screw opposite the one the home switch is on to adjust. With allthread it wasn't necessary, but with the extra slippery TR8 mod the screws will drift if bumped with the power off, and the paper trick is faster than digging out the dial gauge for a quick check or tweak. You want to have a slight drag on the paper (some say you should just be able to push on it without it bending) with the bead and extruder at operating temperature. Check it on both sides of the bed, and if the right side (opposite from the home switch) isn't right then turn that screw by hand until it is. On the left side (check this one first) adjust the home switch, click the Z home button, and recheck. If it's way off you might need to go back and forth a few times since changing the angle (hand turning the screw) will slightly affect the other side.

That looks like a new drive gear for the extruder. Printrbot might still have some injection molded gears for the Wades, and they're much more accurate than the ones they printed on their old botfarm. I went through a couple printed iterations, and the molded gears were way better than could do. The herringbone pattern looks cool, but it doesn't actually contribute anything. I had to do some trimming (sharp xacto knife and small file) to make my original printed gears work without tight spots, turn them by hand with the power off and no filament. There's a tightness adjustment by pivoting the extruder stepper, you want it so it's as loose as you can get without any play - kinda like adjusting bicycle bearing cones - to reduce the friction without introducing any unnecessary slop.

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Oct-Thu-21-Oct

Mooselake wrote: If the Y is sagging it's because one of the two Z screws aren't aren't adjusted the same.


No (Kirk must be sleepy), on a Plus or original LC, the two screws both support the X axis, not the Y axis. Adjusting the Z screws correctly makes the nozzle stay at a constant height as it travels across the bed from X = 0 to X = Max (at a given point on the Y axis). For these printers, the Y axis is operated by moving the bed forward and backward. Naturally, the nozzle clearance can change as Y changes, and even the slope along the X axis can change as Y changes if the bed is not truly flat (planar). Fixing these in hardware means adjusting how the bed is supported, typically with spring-loaded supporting screws or shims underneath the bed, between the bed and the underlying Y table.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Fri-13-Oct

I meant the other Y, the one with that needs an extra leg in the letter to hold it up.

:oops:

On the extra legless Y check that the clearance is the same front to back; better yet just go around all 4 corners adjusting them until the clearance is the same at all the corners. Because they interact it will likely take a couple trips around. Otherwise we might need more info, like a picture with the part still on the bed, or (better yet) a bit of youtube video that shows the beginning and maybe end of the print. If you embed a video with the youtube command remember it's http, not https, and there's several stickies around that tell you how to do it. If you have trouble just type in the URL and somebody will fix it for you.

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Fri-13-Oct

I think i have the bed leveled now, I just wanted to ask, if I print something and it takes 4 plus hours is there a chance that my bot can catch on fire?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Oct-Fri-15-Oct

There's always a chance, but realistically it's small. Keep a fire extinguisher nearby (you should have one anyway for other fire hazards) and don't leave it running while you're gone or sleeping. Put a smoke detector in or near the room it's in. This is true of any 3D printer, not just plywood Printrbots.

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Oct-Fri-16-Oct

There are some things you can do to reduce the fire hazard. First, do everything that Moose said, like not letting the printer run while you are asleep or away.

Also:
1) Make sure the printer is secure in its location. That is, if it is printing some small infill that creates vibration, it must not be able to "walk" off the table and fall on the floor. Or if the filament feed from the spool gets crossed up and refuses to move, the printer won't pull itself or the spool so severely out of position that something can break or fall.

2) Make sure you are using all the correct wiring practices for power going to the Printrboard. On Rev D boards, this means the special Y cable that connects the 4 pins on the Printrboard to a total of six pins coming from two different cables from an ATX power supply. On Rev F boards, this means using the 6-pin connector from a modern ATX power supply, or using a special jumper that connects to a total of six pins from the power supply. (If you have a non-ATX power supply, be sure you are using good heavy gauge wires - and double check them after an hour of operation to make sure they are cool.) Be sure your cables are completely plugged in to the headers on the Printrboard, and check occasionally (especially on a new system) for any sign of overheating at the power connector.

3) Similarly, make sure you are using correct wiring practices for power going from the Printrboard to the heated bed. This is easy on a Rev F board: use 14-gauge "zip cord" from the screw terminals to the heated bed. It's nice and flexible and can handle the current. On a Rev D board, you MUST use all four pins on the connector, and you must make absolutely certain that every wire going from the board toward the heated bed actually gets there. It's allowed to splice identically-colored wires together (e.g. to the 14-gauge zip cord). One of the failings of the earliest 'bots was that all four wires physically reached the heated bed, but it was very difficult to solder the wires correctly to the bed, so sometimes a wire was left hanging and not carrying its share of the current. That forced its same-colored mate to try to carry double the current, and made the connector at the board overheat. The Rev D board design is so marginal in this area that when I was still using a Rev D board I soldered my 14-gauge wire directly to the board's pins, eliminating the connector at the board entirely.

4) Be very aware of how you "dress" the wires going from the Printrboard to the Hot End heater and thermistor. A partial, intermittent break in any of those wires can potentially lead to a hot spot or a runaway situation. I highly recommend "cable chain" to prevent premature fatigue failure caused by wires being repeatedly bent back and forth at a single point.

If you follow all these best practices, the chance of starting a fire is probably no greater than operating a household toaster.

-RJ
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Sun-21-Oct

The last two prints I have been getting this error code and the printer ruins the print it starts printing at a random location

Thread-5:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "threading.pyc", line 808, in __bootstrap_inner
File "threading.pyc", line 761, in run
File "printrun\pronterface.pyc", line 1006, in statuschecker
File "printrun\pronsole.pyc", line 860, in statuschecker
File "printrun\pronterface.pyc", line 976, in statuschecker_inner
File "printrun\pronsole.pyc", line 1291, in get_eta
TypeError: 'NoneType' object is not iterable
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Oct-Mon-08-Oct

Those messages are being generated by your User Interface (Cura, or maybe Pronterface). The ".pyc" means that the files are compiled Python code, which is running on your PC, not the printer.

You might fix the problem just by rebooting your computer. Or by re-installing the Cura software. Or it might be that your STL model is defective and the slicing engine in Cura is creating "impossible" code. Lots of models on Thingiverse are defective and need cleaning up. You can use Netfabb to check the integrity of STL models and fix many errors in the models before you give them to your slicer.

Looking way back to your original post, you mentioned having installed both Pronterface and Cura. You can't have both of those programs trying to run the printer at the same time, and it's possible that if both programs were active at the same time they might collide with each other while trying to communicate with the printer. Cura includes a built-in Pronterface emulator, so just use it. (Actually, I prefer using Repetier and Slic3r instead of Cura, but that's another story.)

Usually, if the printer itself gets hung up there's some kind of a semi-coherent message on your User Interface, not a "crash" of the UI like you saw here.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Oct-Mon-22-Oct

Has anyone found a alternative to the plastic pulleys and the rubber belts, I keep finding myself constantly messing with the belts and the plastic pulleys slide down and cause drag so I was wondering if there was something better out there.
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Nov-Tue-06-Nov

Many of us have converted to machined aluminum pulleys and GT2 (a different shape of belt with slightly different tooth spacing) belts. There should be a large number of posts about this in the archives, so search the forum. Today the parts are used in most reprap printers and are both easy to find and inexpensive. Lookup which pulleys to use, then check Amazon, eBay, or one of the many printer parts sources. I'd look, but on my phone.

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Nov-Tue-06-Nov

If the belts are sliding (which ones) then something's out of alignment, just swapping the parts alone won't fix that.

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Nov-Tue-07-Nov

What you want is GT2 belts and pulleys. I think that the pulleys are 20 tooth. The pulleys are metal, with setscrews to attach them to the motor shafts. One setscrew needs to be on the flat of the D-shaped motor shaft, and all setscrews need to be reasonably firmly tightened. (You may need to experiment to find the right hex key for the setscrew; even though my pulleys are GT2, which makes them supposedly Metric, the hex socket on the setscrews is Imperial measure!)

I assume that by slipping you mean that your existing pulleys are moving on the motor shaft either closer to the motor or farther away from the motor. Do your existing pulleys have setscrews? Slipping should not happen if the setscrews are tightened correctly.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Tue-09-Nov

Yes, I am positive I have the set screws on tight but I think that somehow the plastic pulleys work themselves loose
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Nov-Tue-15-Nov

Did you grind flats on the motor shafts? Iirc those plastic pulleys had slots so you could insert nuts so they wouldn't strip out when you tightened them, did you add them? I think mine are still in the PB parts box, but that's 25 miles from here.

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Wed-08-Nov

I didn't grind the shafts on the motor, I had thought it would damage my motors
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Nov-Wed-17-Nov

They got cheaper motors without D shafts, then made us grind/file them. Without the flats the pulleys will slip - there were directions on how to do it here back when those kits were new, but basically put the motor in a heavy plastic bag (like those zippy top bags), poke the shaft through the bag, and grind away. Then wipe off any debris. It'll keep the metal dust out of the bearings. My home-ground motors worked fine for 2 or 3 years until I replaced X and E with heftier versions. The original Z and Y motors are still working just fine, so grinding didn't hurt them. I used a grinding stone in a Dremel, but a file should work just as well if you're careful not to rotate the shaft while filing.

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Thu-14-Nov

Sometimes the x slips and sometimes it works perfect, I also wanted to ask what is the bed measurement for glass to use for this printer my bed is six by six and the corrresponding size will not work because there are screws and springs and glass clips don't seem to fit either
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Nov-Fri-18-Nov

I measured the circuit board, and then used a diamond bit in a Dremel to grind off the corners to miss the screw heads. I first had the local glass shop make up 4 of them (for the Plus that was a standard size sheet) and clip the corners, but they clipped short and I had to rework them. It's nice to have extras, just swap them and keep printing.

I used double strength plain window glass, single strength would flex when clipped on but the DS works fine. Been using it for years.

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Sat-01-Nov

Thanks for the tip Kirk, I have noticed that during my prints my printer will form a little ball of filament on the print and that eventually becomes dark and mixes in with the print, how would i prevent this?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Nov-Sat-07-Nov

I use nylon scrubber backed sponges to clean the bottom of the nozzle. Mrs. Moose buys them in big bags

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Sun-22-Nov

Just to be on the safe side, is there a automatic fire supression system that anyone uses and is fairly cheap?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Tue-10-Nov

Over the past week the printer fluctuates in temperature, for example, I set it to 195 and on the software you can see that it drops to 182 but then after 2 seconds rises to 195 and sometimes it goes up to 205, I have checked the connections to the thermisters and to the board, everything is fine, could it just be giving me a false reading because it also says "echo:cold extrusion prevented" I know this occurs when the temperature is to low but my prints seem to be coming out fine
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Nov-Tue-12-Nov

Fluctuating extruder temperature would be a symptom of a PID loop that is not tuned up. I won't bore you with the math, but PID stands for Proportional - Integral - Derivative, and it's a mathematical way of setting up a "control loop" for both optimum accuracy and optimum stability. Your extruder heater is in a "control loop" where the thermistor reports the actual temperature and the heater element provides heat, and the firmware attempts to make the actual temperature match the setpoint by sending just the right amount of power to the heater. If the loop is not tuned correctly, you will see the temperature oscillate up and down, above and below the setpoint. Or else it stabilizes but not at the setpoint. Or other strange behavior.

Fortunately, the solution is simple: Use Marlin's built-in auto-tune for the PID loop. It works very well. (In fact, I guarantee you can't do a better job by hand. I have had experience tuning PID loops for years, and I can't beat the auto-tuner's results.)

Start with your extruder at room temperature, raised above the bed, (and as empty as you can get it if you are using PLA, because PLA will "char" if left too long at temperature).
Then issue the command M303 S200 C3. This will cause the extruder to heat up to a Setpoint of 200C, then cool down a bit, then go back to 200C for a total of 3 Cycles. It will take several minutes to do this. But eventually it will give you numbers for P, I, and D. Write these numbers down.

Now do an M503 (NOT M501 or M502!!!!!), to check the actual settings in use in temporary memory. Look for the PID parameters line, M301. If the P, I, D numbers don't match what you wrote down, then issue an M301 to set them to the correct values.

Finally, whether or not the actual settings needed to be changed or not, be sure to issue an M500 command to store the actual settings in EEPROM so that they will be in use every time you start up your printer.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Thu-10-Nov

And will PLA stick to glass?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Nov-Thu-11-Nov

Yes. Use some Elemer's Washable School Glue Stick (the stuff that goes on purple) on it to help, but you can print directly on to very clean glass with no additives if you're careful. Gluestick (there's other schools of thought), just a thin layer, makes it easier to get the plastic to stay on, and to remove after it cools off.

It's what I've been using for years. Works with PLA, ABS, T-Glase, and many others.

It's important to get the clearance between the hot end nozzle and the print surface right to make things stick. Copier (aka inkjet, laser, typing, etc.) paper is about the right thickness to set your endstop; you want it snug but not tight (one school of thought is you should be able to push it without the paper buckling, although gluestick might make that problematic), if you've ever set the valve clearance on an engine you know the drill. It's best to have the bed and extruder at operating temp first since they expand a little when hot, plus it makes those little nubbins of plastic that might be hanging from the nozzle melt and not give you bad readings.

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Thu-14-Nov

Im thinking about taking the heated bed off, and getting a 9.25" by 7" glass and mount it directly on the board, maybe with springs. Since I do not use ABS I was just thinking that it might be a good idea so I can print out parts for my hexacopter
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Nov-Thu-14-Nov

What do you mean by heated bed; my original Plus shipped with a circuit board and no other print surface. Binder clip the glass to the circuit board. Make the glass the same size as the circuit board and clip off the corners, or make it so it just fits inside the mounting screws, your choice. I like the extra room since it lets the binder clips be outside the printable area. There's pictures in my build thread.

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Thu-17-Nov

I was talking about taking off the circuit board or the board that heats up, and just getting a big glass and mount it on the wood platform
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Nov-Thu-18-Nov

Even PLA prints better with a heated bed so it's worth trying to keep it

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Fri-15-Nov

Is there a nice case that anyone has printed out and is mountable on my printer? If so could you share the link with me please?!
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Nov-Fri-17-Nov

Msmaster321 wrote:I was talking about taking off the circuit board or the board that heats up, and just getting a big glass and mount it on the wood platform

Don't make the glass much bigger than the printable area, since slinging the extra weight around will slow down your printing speed. My glass is clipped right on top of the circuit board (printing side up) with binder clips, and it works great. I've got several replaceable pieces, but rarely change it. The current piece has a piece of PEI glued to it, but not sure it's really any better than glue stick on glass (or in the case of the TBDP, on powder coated aluminum.

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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Mon-10-Nov

What do I do about this message "(Temperature is reset. Set it after starting) , Printer stopped due to errors. Fix the errors and use M999 to restart."

My temperature is set at 195 and I did not touch it, could it be the file that I downloaded from thingiverse is defective?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Nov-Mon-10-Nov

In all likelihood, a shutdown on a temperature error means that either your hot end thermistor wires are open-circuit or short-circuit. In my experience, the M999 command is useless; you have to reboot.

Before trying to print anything, open your User Interface and look at the temperature indicated for the Hot End. If it's OK, it should be in the ballpark of 25C. If it's zero, then you know you have an open circuit; if it's >300 then you know you have a short circuit. If it's 25C, then try moving the head around and/or wiggling the wires. If the reading becomes unstable, probably dropping to zero, then you know that you have wires with internal fatigue failure (the insulation can look fine but the copper conductors inside are broken and make or break contact depending on how they are bent).

I can't imagine that even a seriously defective STL file from thingiverse could lead to G-code that's so out of whack that the temperature reading is out of bounds. In principle, at least, that should be quite impossible because for any given part that you print, there are only one or two commands in the entire G-code file dealing with temperature (and there are none at all in the STL file).
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Mon-13-Nov

I think it is the hot end wires, where can I purchase a compatible hot end with the correct pins?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Nov-Mon-13-Nov

It might be easier and cheaper if you can find a local "maker" who knows how to solder. The damaged part of the wires can be spliced. Note that the soldered part of the wires can't be allowed to flex at all; make sure the flexing takes place elsewhere. Then, you should consider using Cable Chain to prevent flexing the wires back and forth at a single point. I printed my Cable Chain from a design by Jon Lawrence, but there are several printable designs on Thingiverse.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
User avatar
RetireeJay
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Joined: 2013-Jan-Wed-13-Jan
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Wed-09-Nov

And has anyone had any success with installing an auto leveling probe on the rev B printrboard, if its possible?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Nov-Wed-12-Nov

Msmaster321 wrote:And has anyone had any success with installing an auto leveling probe on the rev B printrboard, if its possible?

It's possible, but Mooselake and I both find that we get great results without the auto leveling probe, so we say "don't do it." If you decide to go ahead anyway, you'll be hacking around with connectors to get the power supply for the probe. And you'll need to install new firmware on your board, because undoubtedly the original firmware on the board does not support the probe.

If I recall from earlier posts in this thread, you are using a glass surface (or plan to). The auto leveling probe is not directly compatible with a glass surface because the probe needs to see metal within a very few mm of the tip of the probe. Some people get around that by putting small metallic tape on their glass at the locations where the probe will test.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
User avatar
RetireeJay
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Nov-Wed-15-Nov

The older design Printrbots are much more likely to stay "level" than the newer designs. Like RJ once mine is "leveled" it stays there until I do something like lean it on it's side to work on the electronics - and even then it usually works.

My modified Z screws are a lot lower friction than the stock screws, and can drift when powered off, but the original screws won't move unless you really abuse them.

In other words, once it's aligned properly you don't need autoleveling. These bots are solid, the newer ones apparently like to webble and wobble and need help. Probing is best left to aliens, not original Printrbots.

Kirk
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Mon-09-Nov

Recently my printer is not recognized by my computer anymore it says "error cannot connect to COM3 at Baudrate 115200. Does anyone know a solution to this?
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Nov-Tue-09-Nov

Does your computer make the little "ba-ding" sound when you plug in the printer and turn it on? Check in Device Manager to see if the printer is showing up as a COM port (if it's there, check to see if it's still on COM 3; if not then tell Cura / Repetier / MatterHackers which COM port to use). Sometimes on Windows computers a routine patch will "break" the link to the COM port setting; you can restore it by running the Teensy serial driver install again.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
User avatar
RetireeJay
My next printer is...
 
Posts: 4776
Joined: 2013-Jan-Wed-13-Jan
Location: Greenville, SC
Reputation: 477

Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Tue-10-Nov

It was making the noise but also the disconnecting noise rapidly, so I thought there was something wrong with the usb port on the printrboard, and after that it does not make any noise.
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Nov-Tue-22-Nov

Try another USB cable if you're still having trouble.

Kirk
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Sun-13-Nov

It does not connect, I think the usb port on the printrboard has gone bad, probably will need someone to solder it for me.
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Re: Printrbot Original

Postby Msmaster321 » 2016-Nov-Wed-13-Nov

Is there a way I can install a LCD display controller, will that allow me control the board and does anyone know if the Rev B has pins for an LCD?
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