X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

Postby RoxedBoxer » 2016-Jan-Mon-10-Jan

So I have the printrbot simple makers kit 1405 and I have a rather annoying problem: When homing the X and Y axis using G29 or automatically before a print starts it will only go to 90mm on both. There are no obstructions or anything of the sort to prevent full movement. I can move the bed and carriage all the way to both sides without any hindrance. I am at an absolute loss here. Nothing I try works. It's like the printer thinks the bed is in a different location than actuality and, like I said, homing does nothing to fix the problem even though cura knows I have my print bed setting at 100mm across the board. I know of a plugin called XYZShift, but have no idea how to implement it. I have the code written up in a .py file and it even shows in the list of plugins, but I can't adjust any settings with it..
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X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

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Re: X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Jan-Mon-10-Jan

Exactly what sort of limit are you reaching?
Does Cura refuse to slice an object with dimensions larger than 90mm?
Or does the printer fail to move to locations greater than 90mm? It could be a setting inside the printer, not the fault of Cura.

You can use manual controls in the User Interface to move the printhead position. Try moving X to 90 mm and then try jogging it to 91, 92, 93, etc. Does it simply stop moving, ignoring your commands, or does it try to move and make lots of noise and fuss and bother?

-If it simply stops moving, and you know there is more room available, then probably your bed size is wrong in the EEPROM. Use an M503 command and find the place where your bed size is listed. It will show you the command that you use to change the bed size (M211). After you change it, use M500 to store the new value in EEPROM so it will be there every time you turn on the printer. You might want to read this thread, and other threads referenced by it: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=8405#p54222

- If it makes a lot of noise, then it's reached the mechanical limit of travel. In that case, perhaps your Zero location is incorrect. This could have something to do with the offset that's used to tell the printer where your probe is relative to the nozzle; I don't have a probe, so I don't know the exact solution. But you could try issuing a G28 X0 Y0 command after the G29 to reset your X and Y zero positions correctly.
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Re: X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

Postby RoxedBoxer » 2016-Jan-Mon-13-Jan

All my limits are 100mm as tbey should be. Cura just acts like the printbed and extruder are in a different location than reality and it will slice any object i throw at it, no matter the size. What you're describing with the EEPROM sound like a likely cause, so I'll give that a try when this print finishes. I know for a fact that mechanical limits are not being reached.

Smaller things print fine and so do most larger objects, but I have to move the print in cura to the front left corner to help offset the screwy offset.

I'll give that thread and other threads a look and report back after I've tried your suggestions, thanks!
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Re: X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Jan-Mon-16-Jan

Across the top of the Cura window you should see File, Tools, Machine, Expert, Help. Click on Machine. In the pull down menu click on Machine settings....... .

On the left of the dialog box the second, third, and fourth lines down say Maximum width (mm) and Maximum depth (mm) and Maximum height (mm), followed by boxes with numbers in them. What are those numbers?

The build area should say Square, and GCode Flavor Reprep. Don't change E-Steps per 1mm filament; mine is 0 and that works just fine. Could be an Ultimachine thing.

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Re: X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

Postby RoxedBoxer » 2016-Jan-Mon-21-Jan

I've already checked my print size in machine setting several times and even tried some different values. They're 100mm as they should be.
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Re: X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

Postby thawkins » 2016-Jan-Tue-00-Jan

If you have a skirt or brim turned on, then turn it off. It eats up space, cura will not allow you to place an object if its size plus its skirt or brim exceeds the bed size. Also make sure you dont have any options turned on to prevent crossing perimeters, thats impossible to do if you are using the full bed size, as it relies some space outside of the object to move the head around in.

Finaly double check your x/y calibration, make sure that when cura says move 100mm it actualy is 100mm, the back end of marlin only works in steps, if your conversion from mm to steps is out, that will cause a problem.
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Re: X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

Postby RoxedBoxer » 2016-Jan-Wed-15-Jan

The skirt and brim aren't an issue. I'm aware of curas restrictions such as that and that's only an issue on very large parts and I can solve that by adjusting the scale a little or reducing my brims.
As for the x and y calibration I can manually use cura to move across the whole surface (100mm x 100mm), but when it auto homes before a print it will only move to 90mm on both. I've checked the EEPROM and it says 100mm on all axis like it should.
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Re: X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Jan-Wed-17-Jan

I reread your first post, and you're calling G29 a home command. It's not. G28 (either with no axis words - that's the X0 Y0 Z0, or multiple lines mentioning all 3 axis) is the home command. I don't know if the play has it's home switches at 0 or the max value of X and Y, PB has done it both ways. You do need to use G28 to home all axis before using G29. You don't say if you can print on the full surface, just that it won't probe there.

G29 initiates the (alien) probing sequence, a (some call it feeble and imprecise :) ) way to determine how the actual print surface varies from being at Z0, thus allowing the firmware to compensate for a tilt or sag (Marlin does not compensate for a warped surface) while printing. Only 3 points (9 or 9000 aren't really an improvement<ducks>) are necessary to do this, and perhaps they're somewhere near 0,0, and at 0,90 and 90,0. You don't say that you can't print on the whole surface, just that the probing doesn't go all the way to the edges. It doesn't need to. 90% is good enough for government work. Printing, too.

What happens if you try to print something that needs the width (or depth, in the Y sense) of the bed? If you haven't tried to use the whole surface, start printing something like a rectangle that fills the whole surface (scale is your friend...) and see if it'll lay down the first layer. No need to let it finish, just see if it makes one pass around the outside.

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Re: X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

Postby cacb » 2016-Jan-Thu-02-Jan

Mooselake wrote:Only 3 points (9 or 9000 aren't really an improvement<ducks>) are necessary to do this, and perhaps they're somewhere near 0,0, and at 0,90 and 90,0.


Even if the result is a planar surface (Ax + By + Cz + D = 0) it does not automatically follow that 3 measured points are as good as more than 3 measured points. 3 points is the minimum to solve the equation system to obtain an estimate of A,B,C and D. But if you use more points, say 9, you have an overdetermined system. Such overdetermined equation systems can be solved "in the least squares sense". The advantage is that single measurement errors gets evened out, resulting in overall better estimates for A,B,C and D. However, standard Marlin probably does not use this method so therefore its 3 points only now.
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Re: X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

Postby dsegel » 2016-Jan-Thu-18-Jan

Try printing without doing the G29 command (but do the G28 on all three axis). There's a bug in the Marlin G29 code that may be messing up the positioning after it's run. If it works without the G29 there's a fix you can put in your start script that will compensate for it and allow you to continue running G29.
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Re: X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Jan-Fri-11-Jan

cacb wrote:Even if the result is a planar surface (Ax + By + Cz + D = 0) it does not automatically follow that 3 measured points are as good as more than 3 measured points. 3 points is the minimum to solve the equation system to obtain an estimate of A,B,C and D. But if you use more points, say 9, you have an overdetermined system. Such overdetermined equation systems can be solved "in the least squares sense". The advantage is that single measurement errors gets evened out, resulting in overall better estimates for A,B,C and D. However, standard Marlin probably does not use this method so therefore its 3 points only now.

Well, yes, but the position is being measured in steps. Off the top of my head I don't know what Z screw thread they're currently using, but it's somewhere from hundreds to thousands of steps per mm. My TR8-8 screws are 400 steps per mm, coarse by 3D printer standards. That's still 0.0025 mm/step, already pretty high resolution compared to typical layer thickness. Measuring my CNC machine's mechanical home switch (essentially the same cheap microswitch as my PB+) repeatability with a mechanical inch dial gauge it was better than the +/1 0.001'" (yes, it's a dead king's body part measuring device, done before I got the digital mm model) resolution of the gauge. I don't think the alien prober is any better. Even if Marlin did chew up scarce firmware space and RAM to hold the points and do an LSQ average, you're still within the error of the measuring device - and the more typical finer thread pitch Z screws would be theoretically closer. Give the stepper error and backlash 3 points is close enough to the measurement limit.

There was some interest a while back in using 9 or 27 point probing to improve accuracy, but it was essentially a wasted effort. Even if you did go from +/-, say, 3 steps to one, the improvement was lost in the noise. Of course, my last math class was in the early 70s, maybe there's an error in that argument...

Not sure that this helps Roxedboxer out, but at least it's an interesting discussion. Wonder if they found anything.

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Re: X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

Postby cacb » 2016-Jan-Fri-13-Jan

Mooselake wrote: Even if Marlin did chew up scarce firmware space and RAM to hold the points and do an LSQ average, you're still within the error of the measuring device


That's a valid point...

Mooselake wrote:Not sure that this helps Roxedboxer out, but at least it's an interesting discussion. Wonder if they found anything.


Maybe his problem is essentially the same as viewtopic.php?f=80&t=10579 ?
It sounds like it, and then the solution should be similar.
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Re: X and Y axis not being fully utilized.

Postby bbrown64 » 2016-Jan-Fri-17-Jan

Change the physical settings for the bed in Cura>Machine> Machine Settings>Max width 150>Max Depth 150>Max Height 150
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