Firmware failure?

Firmware failure?

Postby bbrown64 » 2015-Dec-Fri-11-Dec

What are the indications that there is a firmware failure on the printrboard? Is it possible for firmware to fail, or be corrupted in anyway?
  • 0

Bill Brown
Tulsa, OK
User avatar
bbrown64
Layer 300 of 1234
 
Posts: 308
Joined: 2015-Mar-Thu-14-Mar
Reputation: 5

Firmware failure?

Sponsor

Sponsor
 

Re: Firmware failure?

Postby Mooselake » 2015-Dec-Fri-11-Dec

It's possible to corrupt the firmware, particularly if you like to pull the power when the machine is operating. However, it's not as common as the "reflash first" for any problem crowd would have you believe. Good practice is to perform proper troubleshooting based on symptoms, then reflash if other causes are ruled out. That also has the advantage that you've gone over the machine, cleaned it up and lubed your rods (rails for that crowd), checked home devices (the ever reliable microswitch or the problematic alien probe device), checked and adjusted bed to head clearance, etc.

The effects can range from subtle (small code changes) to completely non functional. I had some problems with operation at high speed (small writeup somewhere in the forum, think it was on the Z axis which is funky anyway) that mysteriously went away when reflashed, but that was after close to 3 years of operation. If you do end up going the reflash route check out the topics here about platformio (iirc) and rolling your own.

Why do you ask? What's not acting right?

Kirk
  • 0

Modified KickStarter Classic Plus 7/2012
KS Thingybot Delta Pro 10/31/16
User avatar
Mooselake
My next printer is...
 
Posts: 3587
Joined: 2011-Dec-Tue-23-Dec
Location: Moose Swamp, Upper Michigan, USA
Reputation: 172

Re: Firmware failure?

Postby bbrown64 » 2015-Dec-Fri-12-Dec

Moose, yesterday I attempted to print a part. I could not get the brim or the part to stick to the Zebra Plate. The day before everything was working correctly. I went back and checked the gap between the nozzle and the bed, I checked the Z-Probe gap using the 1mm plastic gauge. I even made sure the Z-Probe offset in the software was correct by going through the complete setup for the hotend. I printed a test cube it was correct. But when I tried to print the next part the filament would not stick to the Zebra Plate. I cancelled the print, and tried again after reloading the print and restarting the Cura control panel. I even took the nozzle off the E3D-V6 to make sure there was no obstructions. I am at a lose right now.
  • 0

Bill Brown
Tulsa, OK
User avatar
bbrown64
Layer 300 of 1234
 
Posts: 308
Joined: 2015-Mar-Thu-14-Mar
Reputation: 5

Re: Firmware failure?

Postby RetireeJay » 2015-Dec-Fri-13-Dec

Failure to stick to the bed doesn't sound like a firmware problem. There are hundreds of posts in this forum about getting good bed adherence. I know nothing about the Zebra plate, but that's where I'd start: clean it with alcohol or whatever the manufacturer recommends.
  • 0

Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3
User avatar
RetireeJay
My next printer is...
 
Posts: 4940
Joined: 2013-Jan-Wed-13-Jan
Location: Greenville, SC
Reputation: 496

Re: Firmware failure?

Postby bbrown64 » 2015-Dec-Fri-13-Dec

Zebra plates do not need to be cleaned. The only thing I found about the surface of the plate is to take a fine grit sandpaper and lightly sand the plate and isopropyl alcohol . I used a 320 grit sanding sponge to sand the plate. I even turned the plate over to use the other side. The same thing happened nothing stuck, other than the test cube. Zebra plates are two sided with a copper sheet sandwiched between them so the Z-Probe can work correctly.
  • 0

Bill Brown
Tulsa, OK
User avatar
bbrown64
Layer 300 of 1234
 
Posts: 308
Joined: 2015-Mar-Thu-14-Mar
Reputation: 5

Re: Firmware failure?

Postby RetireeJay » 2015-Dec-Fri-13-Dec

Wait... a "test cube" sticks but your part does not? Maybe something about your slicer - or part - is goofed up.

Copy the first part of your G-code into a "Code" block in your reply (the first several lines of code that have Gxx or Mxx in them; we don't need all the boilerplate that precedes the actual commands sent to the printer). Be sure that you include enough code so that there's a G1 code that includes a Z quantity.

It's very possible, depending on your CAD system and the origin of the design, to have a part whose base is not truly flat and parallel to the bed. It may touch the bed at a single point and be very slightly above the bed everywhere else. If this is the case and you can't fix the design, you could try printing with raft, or printing with support.
  • 0

Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
"My next printer is..." Prusa i3 MK3
User avatar
RetireeJay
My next printer is...
 
Posts: 4940
Joined: 2013-Jan-Wed-13-Jan
Location: Greenville, SC
Reputation: 496

Re: Firmware failure?

Postby Mooselake » 2015-Dec-Fri-16-Dec

Like RJ says, not a firmware problem. Despite the popularity of reflashing for any problem it comes with a small risk of bricking the board. Why risk it for no benefit? On some model PBs the board is seriously buried and hard to get to, another risk of disconnecting something or knocking your bot out of it's hard won perfect alignment.

Use your favorite gcode visualizer (there was one in Pronterface so hopefully Cura has one too; It's definitely in repetier-host), put it in layer at a time mode, and look closely at the first few layers. Are they flat on the bed? Add a brim (or whatever cura calls it) for more stick area. Maybe even try a raft if your slicer allows one, or experiment with support.

I suspect even the Zebra can get dirty or oily - no clean sounds a lot more like a marketing claim than real life. Clean it off with rubbing alcohol, acetone, hot soapy water, dishwasher (works great for glass, not sure if the Zebra would panic from the noise and dark), or your favorite non-residue solvent. Can't hurt (if it's worth it's salt), will probably help. I'd suggest glue stick for problematic prints regardless of the bed surface, but I might get shouted down by the hairspray crowd (you can give it to your GF; if she needs glue stick for her do then I'd be worried) :) If you can't wash your Zebra it may not be a good choice, either.

Update, I see you did try a brim, perhaps a bigger one? Still do the visualizer thing, recheck your bed to head gap, and despite the claim of being always clean (wish they had that when my kids were little) clean if off anyway. By any chance a new filament? How's your filament size and extruder calibration? Recalibrated the alien probing device's clearance after you sanded the surface and made it thinner and further from the head?

Just what does this object look like? Tall and skinny with minimal bed contact? Short and squat with lots touching? Makes a difference, particularly if the squish isn't just right - more margin for error with lots of area.

Kirk
  • 0

Modified KickStarter Classic Plus 7/2012
KS Thingybot Delta Pro 10/31/16
User avatar
Mooselake
My next printer is...
 
Posts: 3587
Joined: 2011-Dec-Tue-23-Dec
Location: Moose Swamp, Upper Michigan, USA
Reputation: 172

Re: Firmware failure?

Postby ChefScott » 2015-Dec-Fri-16-Dec

Sounds like it is the part to me as well. If a test cube stick and prints and this part does not, it is the part and not the firmware. I have had this happen with lots of items from Thingiverse (and other 3D repositories).
Sometimes the only cure is to take the part into Blender (or other 3D modeling program) and add more to the part/move the part there to get it to print correctly.

Example is a dragon model that is on Thingiverse. All the neck parts were in a single group. Neck part 2 would not print but all of the seven other neck parts did. A quick look with MatterControl in layer mode showed that neck part 2 started on the second layer and not the first. Blender to the rescue!
  • 0

User avatar
ChefScott
Waiting for printbed temp...
 
Posts: 147
Joined: 2014-Apr-Fri-21-Apr
Reputation: 19

Re: Firmware failure?

Postby thawkins » 2015-Dec-Sat-13-Dec

bbrown64 wrote:Zebra plates do not need to be cleaned. The only thing I found about the surface of the plate is to take a fine grit sandpaper and lightly sand the plate and isopropyl alcohol . I used a 320 grit sanding sponge to sand the plate. I even turned the plate over to use the other side. The same thing happened nothing stuck, other than the test cube. Zebra plates are two sided with a copper sheet sandwiched between them so the Z-Probe can work correctly.


I dont belive that, one thing that will definatly cause problems with adhesion is grease, the biggest source of that is finger grease from touching the build surface. No matter what the surface chemistry or geometry of the build plate is, grease will interfer with adhesion.

Try using a lint free cloth to wipe your build surface with rubbing alcohol, it will remove all traces of grease.
  • 1

Jonbot+
225mm x 200mm - Heated Bed
RAMPS 1.4 running Marlin 1.1.0
Full Graphic display.
-------------------------------
Zen Toolworks CNC/3d printer
230mmx360mm bed
Dual j-head hotends.
Dual heated beds.
RAMPS 1.4 running Marlin 0.98
-------------------------------
Flashforge 3d Creator Pro
Dual Extruder
220x143x150mm
Mightyboard rev e, runnimg Sailfish 7.7r1234
-------------------------------
Photon, self designed printed printer.
User avatar
thawkins
Print winner 2nd
Print winner 2nd
 
Posts: 1636
Joined: 2013-Aug-Sun-10-Aug
Location: Manila, Philippines
Reputation: 172

Re: Firmware failure?

Postby bbrown64 » 2015-Dec-Sun-06-Dec

I have solved my problem. I lightly sanded both surfaces with 320 grit sanding sponge first. Then thoroughly clean both sides of my Zebra Plate with isopropyl alcohol. I did have to make adjustment to my Z-Probe offset. Now my offset is at Z-1.4. For months it was at Z-1.2. I also like the ability to remove the plate and flex it a bit to remove stubborn parts. The Zebra Plate does not require any type of adhesive, or tape to hold parts down. It can also hold up to heated bed temp of 90 degrees.
  • 0

Bill Brown
Tulsa, OK
User avatar
bbrown64
Layer 300 of 1234
 
Posts: 308
Joined: 2015-Mar-Thu-14-Mar
Reputation: 5

Re: Firmware failure?

Postby Mooselake » 2015-Dec-Sun-14-Dec

Glad you fixed it.

Flexible printing substrates have been around since the early reprap days, you can find references to using, say, thin sheet metal from years ago. Perhaps the creative marketing of thin layers of expensive plastic over various substrates is another sign of industry maturing.

Cleanliness is next to stickiness.

Kirk
  • 0

Modified KickStarter Classic Plus 7/2012
KS Thingybot Delta Pro 10/31/16
User avatar
Mooselake
My next printer is...
 
Posts: 3587
Joined: 2011-Dec-Tue-23-Dec
Location: Moose Swamp, Upper Michigan, USA
Reputation: 172

Re: Firmware failure?

Postby bbrown64 » 2015-Dec-Mon-07-Dec

Moose, the Zebra Plate has a sheet of copper sandwiched between the top and bottom layers. Another thing about the plate is two different colored surfaces for contrast while printing different colors. The colors of the Zebra Plate are black and white.
  • 0

Bill Brown
Tulsa, OK
User avatar
bbrown64
Layer 300 of 1234
 
Posts: 308
Joined: 2015-Mar-Thu-14-Mar
Reputation: 5


Return to Simple talk (software)

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest