1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jul-Fri-21-Jul

KD6HQ wrote:Instead of attaching 2 fans to the fan port, attach a relay board.
Then you can have several different devices attached to the fan port
so that they all start when the fan does. For instance you could
have some leds light up the printing area at the same time.
This one happens to have dual relays but there are single ones also.

That's good to know, does it just go into the fan spot? I'm very interested in adding one of those
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby KD6HQ » 2014-Jul-Fri-23-Jul

Looking at the diagram below you will see that there are 5 connections points.

Input (1,2) - connect to the Printrbot fan connector.
NO (3), C (4) and NC (5) or Normally Open, Common and Normally Closed.

In this case you want to use the Common and NO (Normally Open) connection.
When the Printrbot PC board tells the fan to turn on, the electromagnet
will activate and cause the switch to move from NC to NO. This completes the path
between the power source and the Load ( Fan or ? ).

If you have never done this before I would suggest you find a local person
to over watch what you are doing. I would not want you to end up with a
printer that is not working because you were trying to improve it.

Good luck :)
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jul-Sat-02-Jul

KD6HQ wrote:Looking at the diagram below you will see that there are 5 connections points.

Input (1,2) - connect to the Printrbot fan connector.
NO (3), C (4) and NC (5) or Normally Open, Common and Normally Closed.

In this case you want to use the Common and NO (Normally Open) connection.
When the Printrbot PC board tells the fan to turn on, the electromagnet
will activate and cause the switch to move from NC to NO. This completes the path
between the power source and the Load ( Fan or ? ).

If you have never done this before I would suggest you find a local person
to over watch what you are doing. I would not want you to end up with a
printer that is not working because you were trying to improve it.

Good luck :)

The only thing is, how would that handle speed control? It makes sense I'm just not sure where that factor comes in
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby RetireeJay » 2014-Jul-Sat-06-Jul

KD6HQ wrote:Looking at the diagram below you will see that there are 5 connections points.

Input (1,2) - connect to the Printrbot fan connector.
NO (3), C (4) and NC (5) or Normally Open, Common and Normally Closed.

In this case you want to use the Common and NO (Normally Open) connection.
When the Printrbot PC board tells the fan to turn on, the electromagnet
will activate and cause the switch to move from NC to NO. This completes the path
between the power source and the Load ( Fan or ? ).

If you have never done this before I would suggest you find a local person
to over watch what you are doing. I would not want you to end up with a
printer that is not working because you were trying to improve it.

Good luck :)


This kind of hookup can work with the control for the heated bed, which cycles slowly (especially when it's in "bang-bang" mode). But it's not particularly suitable for use with the Printrboard fan control because the speed control for the fan is pulse-width modulated on a carrier that's somewhere in the kilohertz range. If you're using a mechanical relay, that means you will potentially "tease" the relay instead of having it fully on or fully off. And if you're using a solid-state relay, you will also encounter problems like failure to switch on, or failure to switch off, or overheating because even SSR's are not designed to switch at kilohertz rates. The only way to use this circuit is if you discipline yourself to make sure that the Printrboard fan control is always at 100% or 0%. This means poking around in the settings for Repetier and Slic3r (or their equivalents) to make sure there is never a command for anything else. I myself have not found a way to do that reliably.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby mummson » 2014-Jul-Sun-21-Jul

hijacked thread is hijacked... Sry :)
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby jwiede » 2014-Jul-Tue-13-Jul

RetireeJay wrote:The only way to use this circuit is if you discipline yourself to make sure that the Printrboard fan control is always at 100% or 0%. This means poking around in the settings for Repetier and Slic3r (or their equivalents) to make sure there is never a command for anything else. I myself have not found a way to do that reliably.

Yep, much better to attach the extra fans, lights, whatever to a spare power connector off ATX (or wherever aux power comes from in the setup) -- put in a switch if you want ability to turn them on/off. Putting a relay on the existing fan control circuit is a bad idea, for the reasons RetireeJay mentioned.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby KD6HQ » 2014-Jul-Tue-22-Jul

Thanks RetireeJay, I had forgotten that the fan is controlled by pulse-width modulation.
I remember reading that now that you mention it.
In my case I just use the fan at full speed all the time, because I do not use the fan control
on the printrboard. I'm using a relay for all fans and other attachments I am in the process of adding.

jwiede -

Not every one uses an ATX power supply. In my case I'm using a 12 variable supply made by MFG. model # 4275MV,
it is a 12V variable supply with 75A surge and 70 A continuous ratting. When I get done with other modifications
I am making I will be adding a heated bed. Figured it would handle just about any size heater up to 15 X 15 or so....

7-8-14
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby jwiede » 2014-Jul-Thu-17-Jul

KD6HQ wrote:Not every one uses an ATX power supply. In my case I'm using a 12 variable supply made by MFG. model # 4275MV,
it is a 12V variable supply with 75A surge and 70 A continuous ratting. When I get done with other modifications
I am making I will be adding a heated bed. Figured it would handle just about any size heater up to 15 X 15 or so....


That's why I stated "or wherever aux power comes from in the setup" -- aux power for my Simple is provided by a customized XBox360 power brick. Where it comes from isn't important, my point was just to wire fans, lights, etc. directly off your aux power, adding switches if needed, instead of trying to extend Printrboard fan power (echoing RetireeJay's concerns there).
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby KD6HQ » 2014-Jul-Sun-16-Jul

jwiede

If you don't mind, how do you have your power supply housed?
I'm considering increasing my bed size to 10 X 10 and if I do that I will need to move the printer. So I will not have convenient access to the current power supply. So I'm
thinking the ATX power supply is much cheaper way to go.

thanks

kd6hq
7-12-14
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Munson » 2014-Jul-Sun-20-Jul

KD6HQ,I glue gunned my atx to the side of my 1405 with the switch facing the back.Much easier to transport
ImageUploadedByTapatalk1405302139.952134.jpg

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1405302139.952134.jpg
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby jwiede » 2014-Jul-Mon-13-Jul

KD6HQ wrote:jwiede

If you don't mind, how do you have your power supply housed?
I'm considering increasing my bed size to 10 X 10 and if I do that I will need to move the printer. So I will not have convenient access to the current power supply. So I'm
thinking the ATX power supply is much cheaper way to go.


Well, again, I'm not using an ATX with my PB Simple 1405, I'm using an XB360 power brick. I didn't modify the brick at all, I modified the cable, cutting off the part where it used to connect to the XB360 and soldering new wires directly to the existing ones. As a result, the brick sits at the end of a long power cord, and normally sits on the floor when the Simple sits on a table.

For the ATX I'm using with my other printer, I've got a simple laser-cut wood box around the ATX, similar to the "Power Tower" one PB offer in their store. It too sits away from the printer itself, at the end of a bunch of (wrapped) cables.

Hope this helps, please let me know if you have any other questions where I might be able to help.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Munson » 2014-Jul-Wed-21-Jul

Ok,I finally got around to Y/Z print where all the bearings are housed for the Y/Z along with the Y motor.My question is,has any one noticed that one of the bearing pockets is not as deep as the rest?does it make a difference in performance?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jul-Mon-15-Jul

Munson wrote:Ok,I finally got around to Y/Z print where all the bearings are housed for the Y/Z along with the Y motor.My question is,has any one noticed that one of the bearing pockets is not as deep as the rest?does it make a difference in performance?

Some people has trouble with slicing the original 300 no sag where the bearing pockets didn't slice correctly. The slicer made them with a solid bottom, or other strange behavior. Check out this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6306&p=42431&hilit=slicer#p40969
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Corey Warren » 2014-Jul-Mon-18-Jul

I've printed around 4-5 of these and I've seen this several times.

The workaround I use is to rotate the piece 90 degrees on the z-axis, of course. On my original printer I had to rotate it for it fit so I never saw the problem until I tried to print another one with my larger print bed that didn't need it rotated.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby killbox » 2014-Jul-Thu-22-Jul

so I'm using the fan for the extruder motor for my print fan because A it's angled better IMO and I have attached the drag chain to it so it sits outside the XL tower upgrade thus allowing me to still have a drag chain. Now I'm finding that there isn't enough air flow hitting the part and my E3D is blocking most of it. Would it be possible to design a fan duct to reach under the E3D V6? or is the space too small?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Munson » 2014-Aug-Sat-19-Aug

I finally had the time to print the longer prints for the 1405.I noticed in another question presented in the forum the printer does not print square.I With that said,does the prints for the mod further throw the printer out of square?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Munson » 2014-Sep-Tue-16-Sep

I utilized the fan that cools the hot end to prevent the heat from rising and melting the front part that supports the self leveling probe and extruder.When the fan is on to prevent the heat from melting the printed front end I have issues.If I am running the repetier program to heat at 200 I am l lucky if I can get to 186.Should I raise the temp??
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Sep-Thu-15-Sep

Munson wrote:I utilized the fan that cools the hot end to prevent the heat from rising and melting the front part that supports the self leveling probe and extruder.When the fan is on to prevent the heat from melting the printed front end I have issues.If I am running the repetier program to heat at 200 I am l lucky if I can get to 186.Should I raise the temp??

Not knowing how the air is ducted, it is hard to say. Keep the air path off the business end of the hot end as much as possible. If you are using the Ubis hot end, I would recommend a different hot end that is designed to work with active cooling. I struggled for a long time chasing my tail with heat, buckling, etc. until I finally changed to an E3D. All those issues suddenly went away and the machine finally just printed. No issues, no problems. A good hot end is worth the investment.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby ChefScott » 2014-Dec-Sat-13-Dec

Getting ready to order the smooth rods and ACME threaded rod for my upgrade. Some questions...

In this thread http://www.printrbottalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6306#p40812

Jon Lawrence wrote:Upper rod add 5" and lower rod add 7" to desired print area in inches.

Print area 6", upper rod = 11", lower rod = 13", GT2 Belt = 16" min
Print area 8", upper rod = 13", lower rod = 15", GT2 Belt = 18" min
Print area 10", upper rod = 15", lower rod = 17", GT2 Belt = 21" min
Print area 12", upper rod = 17", lower rod = 19", GT2 Belt = 23" min

Hope it helps.


Do these numbers still hold true for the 1405?
I am assuming that these lengths are for a single precision setup. What length would be needed for using a double precision setup? Specifically with an 8" print area.
VXB has 12.992" (330mm), 15.984 (406mm) and 19.488" (495mm).
This also leads me to these questions as well concerning the ACME threaded rod:
For a max of 10" in the Z is a 12" ACME rod long enough? Or do I need to buy a 3 foot length and cut it down?
Is the Steel General Purpose (B7 alloy) 1/4-16 http://www.mcmaster.com/#general-purpose-acme-rods/=uwoxrv sufficient?
Is there anyone else that sells an appropriate length 1/4-16 ACME rod?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Dec-Sat-16-Dec

ChefScott wrote:Getting ready to order the smooth rods and ACME threaded rod for my upgrade. Some questions...

In this thread http://www.printrbottalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6306#p40812

Jon Lawrence wrote:Upper rod add 5" and lower rod add 7" to desired print area in inches.

Print area 6", upper rod = 11", lower rod = 13", GT2 Belt = 16" min
Print area 8", upper rod = 13", lower rod = 15", GT2 Belt = 18" min
Print area 10", upper rod = 15", lower rod = 17", GT2 Belt = 21" min
Print area 12", upper rod = 17", lower rod = 19", GT2 Belt = 23" min

Hope it helps.


Do these numbers still hold true for the 1405?
I am assuming that these lengths are for a single precision setup. What length would be needed for using a double precision setup? Specifically with an 8" print area.
VXB has 12.992" (330mm), 15.984 (406mm) and 19.488" (495mm).
This also leads me to these questions as well concerning the ACME threaded rod:
For a max of 10" in the Z is a 12" ACME rod long enough? Or do I need to buy a 3 foot length and cut it down?
Is the Steel General Purpose (B7 alloy) 1/4-16 http://www.mcmaster.com/#general-purpose-acme-rods/=uwoxrv sufficient?
Is there anyone else that sells an appropriate length 1/4-16 ACME rod?

I use 400mm rods for my 8" Y axis, so the 406mm would be perfect.

As for the threaded rod, you might as well get the 3 foot one, that's what I did so I have the longer section in case I need it.

The two rods can now be the same length with Jon's new mod, unlike the 2013/2014 simple 300mm Y mod.

Don't forget you need screws and locking nuts! 22mm M3 and 16mm M3 and what I used for most of this mod, and nylon locking nuts from McMaster worked well too.

1/4" -16 is correct.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby ChefScott » 2014-Dec-Sat-18-Dec

Thank you very much for those responses to my questions Orangefurball! Off to go place some part orders now! :D
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jc61990 » 2014-Dec-Sun-16-Dec

Printing out the parts for this now. Hopefully this fixes my slanted prints problem. They only come out slanted in the Y-Axis. I've tried just about everything, Putting in new zip ties and really cranking them down. Tried a 9 point auto level firmware, and I even tried offsetting the bed a bit to compensate for the slant I've been getting. This is my last resort now. I eventually wanted to make my simple 200x200, so this would be a start in that direction. Now I just hope these parts come out good enough to use. I've tried to eliminate the sag issue for the time being so I can get these parts out perfect. Going to do them in ABS since I added a heated bed last year before I transitioned over to the 1405. Lets hope this works.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Dec-Sun-17-Dec

Jc61990 wrote:Printing out the parts for this now. Hopefully this fixes my slanted prints problem. They only come out slanted in the Y-Axis. I've tried just about everything, Putting in new zip ties and really cranking them down. Tried a 9 point auto level firmware, and I even tried offsetting the bed a bit to compensate for the slant I've been getting. This is my last resort now. I eventually wanted to make my simple 200x200, so this would be a start in that direction. Now I just hope these parts come out good enough to use. I've tried to eliminate the sag issue for the time being so I can get these parts out perfect. Going to do them in ABS since I added a heated bed last year before I transitioned over to the 1405. Lets hope this works.

Seems like your X axis may be skewed, unfortunately its hard to shim on the stock 1405. I had issues with pints coming out started on the Y axis as well, switching to the fully printable 1405 solved those issues by being able to shim the parts.

If you print your parts on a slated printer, then the parts will be slanted as well, this will just increase the amount of slant in the prints you make. Its hard to get it just right. I had to go through 3 full parts changes, printing the first, then shimming then reprinting, then shimming until everything is perfect.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby ChefScott » 2015-Jan-Thu-12-Jan

Is this diagram for the GT2 belt correct for the start/end of the belt? Also, if I am keeping the Y end-stop switch in the original 1405 location, do I need to have the EndStopFlagDouble at all?
belt-path.png


What purpose does the GT2BeltWedge have? Where would it be used?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby KD6HQ » 2015-Jan-Thu-14-Jan

Gt2 Belt Start/End - correct
EndStop FlagDouble - not needed

Nice drawing!
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby ChefScott » 2015-Jan-Thu-16-Jan

All was done with Sketchup, except for the text, arrows and belt path that was done in CorelDraw. I was just having a hard time wrapping my head around the belt path for some reason (it would be kind of hard to get my head in there anyway). :lol:
Thank you for confirming how I thought it went.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby kylebutts » 2015-Feb-Tue-19-Feb

I'm trying to install this upgrade (printed PLA parts with 50% infill), and I can't figure out how to power the extra fans that are supposed to be added. I just have a couple 40mm computer case fans, same as the one that came with the printrbot 1405. This is probably an easy problem to solve, but the only circuits experience I have is from physics back in college, and that was not at all in depth, and was a lot of years ago. Can anyone help me out?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2015-Feb-Tue-21-Feb

kylebutts wrote:I'm trying to install this upgrade (printed PLA parts with 50% infill), and I can't figure out how to power the extra fans that are supposed to be added. I just have a couple 40mm computer case fans, same as the one that came with the printrbot 1405. This is probably an easy problem to solve, but the only circuits experience I have is from physics back in college, and that was not at all in depth, and was a lot of years ago. Can anyone help me out?

Just hook them up to the 12v line on your power supply
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby murx » 2015-Feb-Sat-12-Feb

orangefurball wrote:Yep, it started melting. I'm gonna do 45% infill now that I see how bad it is. I had to quit a large print as the hot end tilted more and more


Is there anything new concerning the melting problem. I saw the support-part you designed. But does the higher infill prevent melting?
And those who do not have the problem, did you use ABS?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2015-Feb-Sat-18-Feb

murx wrote:
orangefurball wrote:Yep, it started melting. I'm gonna do 45% infill now that I see how bad it is. I had to quit a large print as the hot end tilted more and more


Is there anything new concerning the melting problem. I saw the support-part you designed. But does the higher infill prevent melting?
And those who do not have the problem, did you use ABS?


I would do 70% infill or more. 45% didn't melt with that extra piece though which is good. I used PLA.

That being said, you can install a 12v fan and cool the Ubis down enough to not have an issue melting. Or use an all metal one, I switched to the E3D and have had no problems with any mounting system.
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Cubify Cube3 & Makerbot Replicator Mini

Thingybot Delta Printer
150x150x200mm circular build volume, high precision open source 3D printer.

http://www.thingybot3d.com
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby bluewhale » 2015-Feb-Tue-11-Feb

What is the difference between the single and double precision setups?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2015-Feb-Tue-15-Feb

bluewhale wrote:What is the difference between the single and double precision setups?


Double precision requires the motor to move 2x more belt than single precision in order to move the same distance. You should theoretically have more accurate prints and rounder curves.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Desdemona1 » 2015-Apr-Thu-13-Apr

Hello all, How can I use this mod and keep the auto level probe for calibration and use a Z optical or Hall end stop at the same time?

i just can't seem to find the info anyplace.

Nice work on these mods.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby RetireeJay » 2015-Apr-Thu-14-Apr

Desdemona1 wrote:Hello all, How can I use this mod and keep the auto level probe for calibration and use a Z optical or Hall end stop at the same time?

i just can't seem to find the info anyplace.


The mod that is the topic of the original post is a physical modification that expands the size of the "carrier" that moves up and down on the Z axis and holds the rods that move in and out for the Y axis. This mod has little or nothing to do with the use of auto-leveling probes or other Z end stop methods.

And the Auto Level Probe is, I believe, a Hall effect probe.

But basically, you can only use one method at a time to set your Z clearance; you don't use them all "at the same time." Either you will use the Auto Leveling Probe, or else you will use a mechanical switch or an optical detector. The Auto Leveling Probe is generally used to check the bed clearance at 3 (or more) points to calculate both the clearance from the head to the bed, and the slope of the bed. The mechanical or optical switch detectors only set the clearance; they don't check the slope. However, IMHO a bed that is well adjusted doesn't need slope correction, and the whole operation is simpler without the Auto Leveling Probe.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby DavidTheNerd C » 2016-Mar-Thu-23-Mar

Just a quick question, does anyone know if I can use my current probe that came with my 1405 instead of buying a new one? I do know that mine is a 4mm and the one used in the mod is a 12. Not totally sure if I should spend 40 dollars on a new one? Also, I use a e3d v 6 if that matters.
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