1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Thu-13-Jun

This is a continuation of the "300mm No Sag" BUT for the 1405 Makers Simple version. viewtopic.php?f=21&t=6306&start=200#p49742

Files can be found over on Thingiverse: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:372467

Based on the excellent modeling of the new kit from Threefer3 I have outlined some of the key points between the Simple models.
Z rod center distance spacing: 2014 Simple = 65mm / 1405 Makers Simple = 70mm
Y rod center distance spacing: 2014 Simple = 1405 Makers Simple = JL 300mm No Sag Mod = 70mm (same on all versions)
X rod center distance spacing: 2013 & 2014 Simple = 57.5mm / 1405 Makers Simple = 62mm
Z motor & ACME thread: Same location with respect to REAR Z smooth rod.
Front End: E3D will NOT fit.

Here are a couple work in progress mods to adapt to the 300mm No Sag:
I tweaked the front end to make room for an E3Dv5 so it is not exactly the same. The E3Dv6 may be too short, or you may be able to scoot it down in the mounting, somebody with one will have to confirm.

- Probe offset is 26mm
- Total of (3) fans. Extruder motor, Hot end, and Part.
- The fan mounts were quick and simple, so I gave the dimensions on the drawing to help if anybody wants to design their own.
- Cable management is not incorporated yet.

2014-06-20: Added rear mount that will work with all versions.
2014-06-23: Added short version of front end. Hopefully this will work better for E3Dv6 and Hexagon hot ends. Moved STL files over to Thingiverse.

ExtendY1405-ISO-2014-06-19.JPG

ExtendY1405-2014-06-20.JPG
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Last edited by Jon Lawrence on 2014-Jun-Mon-15-Jun, edited 8 times in total.
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1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

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1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Munson » 2014-Jun-Thu-13-Jun

Will number 3 on the print(fan) give clearance for an XL frame?Also the front rod clamps is a great add on!!Also,could you possibly leave space for a rear endstops switch?It may be important for people like me that are not too familiar with ramps yet,until I figure out how to reverse the Y endstops settings.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Thu-14-Jun

Munson wrote:Will number 3 on the print(fan) give clearance for an XL frame?Also the front rod clamps is a great add on!!Also,could you possibly leave space for a rear endstops switch?It may be important for people like me that are not too familiar with ramps yet,until I figure out how to reverse the Y endstops settings.

I don't have an XL and still don't have good files for one, so I am behind again here. Below is a top view with the Y arm fully retracted. It looks like things should clear on the left side.

ExtendY1405-Top-2014-06-19.JPG
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1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Munson » 2014-Jun-Thu-16-Jun

There is only a 17mm gap between the wall of the XL and the motor/extruder,from the looks of it from the birds eye view the fan will hit
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Radair » 2014-Jun-Thu-17-Jun

I'm printing the new front out right now and should be able to answer the E3Dv6 question.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby KD6HQ » 2014-Jun-Thu-17-Jun

I'm probably a little pre-mature on this but:

I have just ordered my first printer this past Monday the Printrbot Simple Makers Kit.
I don't even have the kit yet and I'm already interested in the Y axis upgrade.
So after some preliminary printing I plan to dive into the upgrade.
I do not have a feel about how much PLA the parts will need.
Could someone give me an idea please. I've already ordered on spool
but I do not want to run out before all the parts are done.
thanks
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Radair » 2014-Jun-Thu-17-Jun

KD6HQ wrote:I'm probably a little pre-mature on this but:

I have just ordered my first printer this past Monday the Printrbot Simple Makers Kit.
I don't even have the kit yet and I'm already interested in the Y axis upgrade.
So after some preliminary printing I plan to dive into the upgrade.
I do not have a feel about how much PLA the parts will need.
Could someone give me an idea please. I've already ordered on spool
but I do not want to run out before all the parts are done.
thanks



One roll is plenty to print the parts for the Y upgrade.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jun-Thu-17-Jun

1 spool is plenty. Make certain you can print flat and accurate first. Any warp in the part and you'll end up with a printer that can't print accurately.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby LeeB » 2014-Jun-Thu-21-Jun

My E3D v6 came in today, and the only way it will work with the old 300mm Y no sag is if I use the mount that evanalmighty created called J Head Bowden bottom from the bowden on a simple thread, otherwise it won't clear the fan shroud.

There is a E3d v6 on thingiverse that can be printed to look at options. http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:341689. This model is a good matchup with the hotend that came today.

I remember seeing elsewhere that someone used the bowden version with a really short tube to mount the extruder in close proximity, if they aren't directly connected.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Thu-22-Jun

Luckily I was able to print everything in one go!

[img]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/20/ene3y2at.jpg[/img]

One question though, is there any point that we can plug the extra fans into on the board?

Also, do we have to use the extruder fan if we are using a Ubis instead of an E3D?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Thu-22-Jun

The RRD Hexagon hotend that I'm using won't fit because it's too short and the cooling fins prevent it from getting through the mount and in to the extruder. I created an adadpter to hold it a bit lower but the hotend cooling shroud prevents me from mounting it. Would you mind creating a version without the hotend shroud? I need the space just around the 3 screws that secure the extruder.

This is the adapter http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:347953 I'll probably need to modify it anyway but I can't see a way to get around the shroud.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Thu-22-Jun

KD6HQ wrote:I'm probably a little pre-mature on this but:

I have just ordered my first printer this past Monday the Printrbot Simple Makers Kit.
I don't even have the kit yet and I'm already interested in the Y axis upgrade.
So after some preliminary printing I plan to dive into the upgrade.
I do not have a feel about how much PLA the parts will need.
Could someone give me an idea please. I've already ordered on spool
but I do not want to run out before all the parts are done.
thanks

if you are going to print everything with 20% fill, Cura estimates that its about 80 grams, so its about 8% of a 1kg spool.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Jun-Thu-22-Jun

Appreciate the work Jon got my new makers upgrade kit and plan on building another simple out of it. You just made going with bigger dimensions easier for me.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Bellus » 2014-Jun-Thu-23-Jun

First let throw this out there, my wife and kids left home for two weeks so I am trying to keep my idle hands busy.

Ok so I printed the 1405 front mount and got a chance to install almost everything. I am kind of working my way backwards so to say. ImageImageImageImage

I really don't want to lose the X portion just yet. Everything looks good on the extruder mount, but, I have a E3Dv5 hotend. So can't speak for the Ubis or v6. Unfortunately I only have one 40mm fan at the moment and one 30mm(the one that comes with the hot end) I elected to use the RH fan mount for the cat track for the moment to try and manage some wires. Haven't installed the probe either, mainly because I am being a chicken about the firmware portion.

Are any of the other fans truly nessecary? I know the hot end instructions says it needs constant airflow but what about the tip fan? I read somewhere it was mainly for bridging?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Thu-23-Jun

Bellus wrote:Are any of the other fans truly nessecary? I know the hot end instructions says it needs constant airflow but what about the tip fan? I read somewhere it was mainly for bridging?


For print cooling I'm told ABS should only have a fan on for bridging, but PLA needs it most of the time. The all metal hotends all seem to need active cooling on their upper portions. I've never used a fan on my extruder motor, it barely gets warm (possibly it's a bigger motor, it came with the original printrbot simple beta kit).
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Fri-00-Jun

Bellus wrote:First let throw this out there, my wife and kids left home for two weeks so I am trying to keep my idle hands busy.

Ok so I printed the 1405 front mount and got a chance to install almost everything. I am kind of working my way backwards so to say. ImageImageImageImage

I really don't want to lose the X portion just yet. Everything looks good on the extruder mount, but, I have a E3Dv5 hotend. So can't speak for the Ubis or v6. Unfortunately I only have one 40mm fan at the moment and one 30mm(the one that comes with the hot end) I elected to use the RH fan mount for the cat track for the moment to try and manage some wires. Haven't installed the probe either, mainly because I am being a chicken about the firmware portion.

Are any of the other fans truly nessecary? I know the hot end instructions says it needs constant airflow but what about the tip fan? I read somewhere it was mainly for bridging?

the fan for the tip is definitely necessary. I have tested this by manually disabling my fan during a print and it didn't cone out well.

why not just install the 30mm fan for your hot end in the 40mm mount? if you have some cardboard you can make a quick and dirty 30mm to 40mm adapter so it can fit then you can print something when you're up and running.

not sure if the motor one is necessary, I actually have an extra fan attached to the extruder so the PLA doesn't get too soft and clog the extruder.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Jun-Fri-07-Jun

Im not using a fan for my tip and my prints seem to be doing pretty well but im also running a heated bed. Ill post some pics and maybe ta can tell me what im not seeing
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Fri-09-Jun

Skrotus wrote:The RRD Hexagon hotend that I'm using won't fit because it's too short and the cooling fins prevent it from getting through the mount and in to the extruder. I created an adadpter to hold it a bit lower but the hotend cooling shroud prevents me from mounting it. Would you mind creating a version without the hotend shroud? I need the space just around the 3 screws that secure the extruder.

This is the adapter http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:347953 I'll probably need to modify it anyway but I can't see a way to get around the shroud.

Would you happen to have dimensions for the hexagon? Before creating too many derivatives, I would like to put it in the model and see if I can accommodate most hot ends in one or two versions.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Fri-09-Jun

Bellus wrote:Are any of the other fans truly necessary? I know the hot end instructions says it needs constant airflow but what about the tip fan? I read somewhere it was mainly for bridging?

Tip fan and extruder motor fan are just there for personal preference. Everybody will have a different experience with part/motor cooling.

I believe even the Ubis will benefit from active cooling like the E3D and Hexagon. If nothing else, keeping heat as far away from your printed mounting as possible is a good thing.

Can you tell I am a big fan of active cooling...
Like everything, if you don't want the fans, simply don't use them. At least the option is there.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Radair » 2014-Jun-Fri-12-Jun

With just enough insertion into the Alum Exturder to get a good grip on it the E3Dv6 has has 5mm hang past the bottom rod mount. Should be plenty of room.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Radair » 2014-Jun-Fri-12-Jun

Spoke to soon. Z Bottoms out before I hit the bed. 12.5mm short.

UPDATE:

Was able to shim the bed to level with the base. Successful calibration cube with E3Dv6 with the bed leveling sensor installed.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Fri-15-Jun

Update: I realized if I was to allow this version to be mounted on the Printrbot Makers YZ plate, I needed an rear end that would work as well. I edited the top post to include a rear end that will work on all versions, and also added some of the double precision parts.

You don't have to install this as a double precision. If you only want the normal operation, just leave out the reversing bearings and tension the belt as usual.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Baedarlboo » 2014-Jun-Fri-16-Jun

My kit comes in today, but the aluminum extruder setup won't be here for a bit. So I reassembled my printer to start printing parts. I guess it would be good to have all needed parts printed and assemble the 1405 kit with the mods in one shot. Excited for what's to come Jon! :mrgreen:
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby greenb » 2014-Jun-Fri-16-Jun

This mod will work with the ubis, correct?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Fri-17-Jun

greenb wrote:This mod will work with the ubis, correct?

yes
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Bellus » 2014-Jun-Fri-17-Jun

Jon Lawrence wrote:Update: I realized if I was to allow this version to be mounted on the Printrbot Makers YZ plate, I needed an rear end that would work as well. I edited the top post to include a rear end that will work on all versions, and also added some of the double precision parts.

You don't have to install this as a double precision. If you only want the normal operation, just leave out the reversing bearings and tension the belt as usual.



How does this differ from your original double precision?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Fri-18-Jun

Beautiful mod. Worked perfectly. Left the top rod a bit longer for accessories. The possibilities are endless. Took about a half hour to install!

ImageImageImageImage
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby greenb » 2014-Jun-Fri-18-Jun

where did you get those stabilizers? My printer is very tipsy.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Fri-19-Jun

greenb wrote:where did you get those stabilizers? My printer is very tipsy.

I designed and printed them. Here is my design http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:366326
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Radair » 2014-Jun-Fri-22-Jun

Here is where I finally ended up with my E3Dv6. Now it's time to rip the entire thing apart and install my RAMPS board!

image.jpg
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Sat-00-Jun

Jon Lawrence wrote:
Skrotus wrote:The RRD Hexagon hotend that I'm using won't fit because it's too short and the cooling fins prevent it from getting through the mount and in to the extruder. I created an adadpter to hold it a bit lower but the hotend cooling shroud prevents me from mounting it. Would you mind creating a version without the hotend shroud? I need the space just around the 3 screws that secure the extruder.

This is the adapter http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:347953 I'll probably need to modify it anyway but I can't see a way to get around the shroud.

Would you happen to have dimensions for the hexagon? Before creating too many derivatives, I would like to put it in the model and see if I can accommodate most hot ends in one or two versions.


Fair enough.

From nozzle tip to top the hotend is right at 55mm, the cooling fins start 14mm down preventing it from being fully mounted to the extruder through the mounting plate. The hexagonal cooling fins are ~18mm at their widest and 16.25 mm at narrowist

Like Radair I can clamp it in partially, but the lowest I've been able to get it is about 47mm from mounting plate to tip which is still a bit short and I'm not entirely convinced it's secure.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby thawkins » 2014-Jun-Sat-00-Jun

greenb wrote:where did you get those stabilizers? My printer is very tipsy.


Wooden chopping hoard, and a couple of screws, cant beat it...
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Sun-21-Jun

Looks like I'm going to need some new rods to use the double precision mod and still get my full 6". That's okay though as the rods don't cost me much and I've virtually got enough parts to build a new simple now so the old ones won't go to waste...
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1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Munson » 2014-Jun-Mon-00-Jun

Jon, I just came across one of your builds on thingiverse.Does this fit on the 1405? http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:344748/#comments
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Mon-07-Jun

Munson wrote:Jon, I just came across one of your builds on thingiverse.Does this fit on the 1405? http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:344748/#comments

If your question is if it will fit on the stock wood 1405 frame, then the answer is no.
If your question is if it will fit on the 300mm no sag (1405 or any other version) than the answer is yes. All the 300mm no sag's have the same rod spacing of 70mm and are interchangeable.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby spitfirehauser » 2014-Jun-Mon-11-Jun

I upgraded to the new front end this weekend and i really like it. still have to figure out a better way to route my wiring from my ubis hot end but in all its a much cleaner and better setup compared to the original. I put in the new probe but still have not wired it up or upgraded my firmware to make it work. first test had the printer working quite nicely with nice smooth motion. thanks Jon for the great designs.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Mon-11-Jun

Skrotus wrote:... From nozzle tip to top the hotend is right at 55mm, the cooling fins start 14mm down preventing it from being fully mounted to the extruder through the mounting plate. The hexagonal cooling fins are ~18mm at their widest and 16.25 mm at narrowist

Like Radair I can clamp it in partially, but the lowest I've been able to get it is about 47mm from mounting plate to tip which is still a bit short and I'm not entirely convinced it's secure.


I have edited the top post to include a "1405AlExtruderFront-Short" version that should accomodate the E3Dv6 and Hexagon better. If you try it please let me know how well it works out.

spitfirehauser wrote:... still have to figure out a better way to route my wiring from my ubis hot end but in all its a much cleaner and better setup compared to the original. ...


I added some mounting holes on the left side to accept the cable management mount if you are not using the part cooling fan in this location.
Here are a couple images of the two configurations:

ExtendY1405-2014-06-23CableManagement.JPG

ExtendY1405-2014-06-23CableManagementShort.JPG
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Defy » 2014-Jun-Mon-12-Jun

So john does the new 1405 use the same y rod spacing as the stock yz carriage? IE can i just print the new extruder mount and rear. Then ise the stock yz carriage?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Mon-12-Jun

Defy wrote:So john does the new 1405 use the same y rod spacing as the stock yz carriage? IE can i just print the new extruder mount and rear. Then ise the stock yz carriage?

Yes it will fit, but you will need longer 8mm linear rails.

The major benefit of the "300mm No Sag" (I really should have given that thing a better name...) YZ plate is it separates the bearings and supports them better. This gives a much more rigid assembly. With the stock YZ bearing plate you will see lots of "flex" in the Y axis as you increase the Y travel distance.
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1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Defy » 2014-Jun-Mon-15-Jun

Thanks makes sense. I am not looking for more y distance just no sag so i though i could just get by without printing the YZ carriage.

Well call it the jyns (pronounced jens) upgrade for johns y no sag.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Mon-15-Jun

Just published and moved the files over to Thingiverse to keep all the designs together.
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:372467
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Jun-Mon-16-Jun

Jon when printing on your machines are you using a part cooling fan along with heated bed?
If so do you see any better quality or faster printing form using the part cooling fan and heated bed combo?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby MrCamil » 2014-Jun-Mon-23-Jun

Everything seems to be working great for me. Very happy with how well it reduced my Y sag.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Bellus » 2014-Jun-Tue-00-Jun

orangefurball wrote:
Bellus wrote:First let throw this out there, my wife and kids left home for two weeks so I am trying to keep my idle hands busy.

Ok so I printed the 1405 front mount and got a chance to install almost everything. I am kind of working my way backwards so to say. ImageImageImageImage

I really don't want to lose the X portion just yet. Everything looks good on the extruder mount, but, I have a E3Dv5 hotend. So can't speak for the Ubis or v6. Unfortunately I only have one 40mm fan at the moment and one 30mm(the one that comes with the hot end) I elected to use the RH fan mount for the cat track for the moment to try and manage some wires. Haven't installed the probe either, mainly because I am being a chicken about the firmware portion.

Are any of the other fans truly nessecary? I know the hot end instructions says it needs constant airflow but what about the tip fan? I read somewhere it was mainly for bridging?

the fan for the tip is definitely necessary. I have tested this by manually disabling my fan during a print and it didn't cone out well.

why not just install the 30mm fan for your hot end in the 40mm mount? if you have some cardboard you can make a quick and dirty 30mm to 40mm adapter so it can fit then you can print something when you're up and running.

not sure if the motor one is necessary, I actually have an extra fan attached to the extruder so the PLA doesn't get too soft and clog the extruder.



So I picked another 40mm fan today, but they only had one, ended up installing the two 40mm and one 30mm fans. Then I found this 30 to 40mm adapter saving me a couple bucks, think it turned out good. ImageImage
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Tue-06-Jun

Jon Lawrence wrote:I have edited the top post to include a "1405AlExtruderFront-Short" version that should accomodate the E3Dv6 and Hexagon better. If you try it please let me know how well it works out.


The hexagon hotend does now reach the print bed with a decent amount of the top going in to the extruder and I can make a simple spacer to guide filament in. The only real problem is that the hotend cooling shroud directs air at the top of the heating block. I'd still prefer something with the shroud removed entirely so I can fit my adapter in, but I can see why you don't want to be maintaining too many versions and I can always just use the pre-1405 front.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Tue-10-Jun

Skrotus wrote:The hexagon hotend does now reach the print bed with a decent amount of the top going in to the extruder and I can make a simple spacer to guide filament in. The only real problem is that the hotend cooling shroud directs air at the top of the heating block. I'd still prefer something with the shroud removed entirely so I can fit my adapter in, but I can see why you don't want to be maintaining too many versions and I can always just use the pre-1405 front.

I have adjusted the short version to use a 30mm fan which should keep it off the heater cartridge. The reason I don't remove the fan shroud completely is it also provides support for the Aluminum extruder. Some people were having heat issues and sagging front ends on the previous version, so here I wanted to include some more support, and it just worked out well to also be fan duct.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Baedarlboo » 2014-Jun-Tue-17-Jun

Have all the parts printed out, just waiting on my aluminum extruder kit to come in. Also trying to figure out if I should cut my 400mm rods to fit my 12"x9" aluminum bed or make something to adapt the bed without cutting the rods. I'd hate to cut up my rods and regret it later. :?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Tue-22-Jun

Jon Lawrence wrote:I have adjusted the short version to use a 30mm fan which should keep it off the heater cartridge. The reason I don't remove the fan shroud completely is it also provides support for the Aluminum extruder. Some people were having heat issues and sagging front ends on the previous version, so here I wanted to include some more support, and it just worked out well to also be fan duct.


That looks like it should work but I won't have a chance to try it out for a few days, will let you know.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Wed-07-Jun

Baedarlboo wrote:Have all the parts printed out, just waiting on my aluminum extruder kit to come in. Also trying to figure out if I should cut my 400mm rods to fit my 12"x9" aluminum bed or make something to adapt the bed without cutting the rods. I'd hate to cut up my rods and regret it later. :?

Don't cut your rods, there will be an X axis upgrade for the 1405 before too long that will allow any length rod to be used.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Ari_Porad » 2014-Jun-Wed-09-Jun

Really Exited To Install This! :D

1 question though: How much longer do I need to make the rods than I actually want to be able to print?

Thanks,
Ari
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Baedarlboo » 2014-Jun-Wed-09-Jun

Jon Lawrence wrote:
Baedarlboo wrote:Have all the parts printed out, just waiting on my aluminum extruder kit to come in. Also trying to figure out if I should cut my 400mm rods to fit my 12"x9" aluminum bed or make something to adapt the bed without cutting the rods. I'd hate to cut up my rods and regret it later. :?

Don't cut your rods, there will be an X axis upgrade for the 1405 before too long that will allow any length rod to be used.


That's awesome news! I'll wait for the mod then! Thanks Jon...as usual!
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Wed-10-Jun

Ari_Porad wrote:...How much longer do I need to make the rods than I actually want to be able to print?...


For the single precision setup, you will need at least 165mm longer than your print area.
For the Double Precision, I would use a minimum of 200mm longer than your print area. The belt tension device sitting in the middle makes it rather bulky so some extra room here is helpful.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Wed-20-Jun

Image

Does anyone else have a lopsided extruder? I can print but it can't be good. What do I do?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Jun-Wed-20-Jun

orangefurball wrote:Image

Does anyone else have a lopsided extruder? I can print but it can't be good. What do I do?


It looks like it isn't screwed on securely
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Wed-20-Jun

Skrotus wrote:
orangefurball wrote:Image

Does anyone else have a lopsided extruder? I can print but it can't be good. What do I do?


It looks like it isn't screwed on securely

It's screwed in all the way, all three screws.

It almost looks like the back corner melted. I'm gonna print a new one at 30% fill instead of 20%
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Bellus » 2014-Jun-Wed-21-Jun

Mine is starting to do the same thing, not as bad. My infill is 25%
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jun-Wed-21-Jun

For stuff like this, you guys ought to use infill of at least 40%.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Wed-21-Jun

[img]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/26/yhuvery5.jpg[/img]

Yep, it started melting. I'm gonna do 45% infill now that I see how bad it is. I had to quit a large print as the hot end tilted more and more
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1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Bellus » 2014-Jun-Wed-21-Jun

I use a desk top fan on my motor most of the time, that may be why mine isn't as bad. I will probably print my next one in ABS then.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jun-Thu-04-Jun

For anyone having issues with the melting front piece while using a Ubis, here is a quick fix I designed. Just screw it into the rear fan duct and you will add extra support the weak point of the front and add support to the E motor.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:375288

ImageImage
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby KD6HQ » 2014-Jun-Fri-08-Jun

I just printed out my first modification part, 1405read-2014-06-23. The part looks ok, but since this is a new printer I'm checking a lot of things. The hole for the shaft appears to be 7.5mm, is this correct or is my printer a little off?

thanks :)
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Fri-10-Jun

KD6HQ wrote:I just printed out my first modification part, 1405read-2014-06-23. The part looks ok, but since this is a new printer I'm checking a lot of things. The hole for the shaft appears to be 7.5mm, is this correct or is my printer a little off?

thanks :)

The hole is modeled at exactly 8mm. I usually clean mine up with a 5/16" drill bit and press them in. I find some quick clamps where you can reverse the end to be invaluable in assembly / dis-assembly. You can press the ends on as well as push them off, saves a ton of beating on the machine.

QuickClamp.PNG
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby KD6HQ » 2014-Jun-Fri-10-Jun

That's what I thought, but new printer and all... thanks
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Munson » 2014-Jun-Fri-14-Jun

Jon Lawrence,what cad program do you use?Also how long does it take for you to design a mod?I am always mesmerized by your work.I also want to say thank you for sharing your work with us !!!
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Sat-06-Jun

Munson wrote:Jon Lawrence,what cad program do you use?Also how long does it take for you to design a mod?I am always mesmerized by your work.I also want to say thank you for sharing your work with us !!!

I design in Solidworks. Hard to say how long it takes, I tinker during down time a little here and there. I am a machine designer by profession. Being able to be creative without the constraints of traditional manufacturing capabilities is just plain fun.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby mummson » 2014-Jun-Sat-13-Jun

Jon Lawrence wrote:2014-06-20: Added rear mount that will work with all versions.


I'm confused... are you talking about the fan mount and if so will this work with the XL tower upgrade?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jun-Sun-05-Jun

mummson wrote:I'm confused... are you talking about the fan mount and if so will this work with the XL tower upgrade?

That is the part in the back, opposite end of the extruder. No fan back there.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby mummson » 2014-Jun-Sun-08-Jun

Jon Lawrence wrote:
mummson wrote:I'm confused... are you talking about the fan mount and if so will this work with the XL tower upgrade?

That is the part in the back, opposite end of the extruder. No fan back there.


So it wont fit with the XL tower?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby midnkight » 2014-Jun-Sun-11-Jun

mummson wrote:
Jon Lawrence wrote:
mummson wrote:I'm confused... are you talking about the fan mount and if so will this work with the XL tower upgrade?

That is the part in the back, opposite end of the extruder. No fan back there.


So it wont fit with the XL tower?

everything but the wood to the XL tower should work. I have seen people using the XL bed, and I have my own 1/4 acme thread rod and 8mm rod that allow me to increase the z to 600, but it is limited to 250 due to wire. hahaha. :roll:
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby mummson » 2014-Jun-Sun-12-Jun

Munson wrote:There is only a 17mm gap between the wall of the XL and the motor/extruder,from the looks of it from the birds eye view the fan will hit


It should be OK to cut out for the fan on the tower piece. I might give that a go...
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby jwiede » 2014-Jun-Mon-22-Jun

Jon Lawrence wrote:I design in Solidworks.

Yep, nothing like having really nice (read as: expensive) CAD tools to use! Your designs typically have an aesthetic aspect, where most others are brute-force utilitarian. Have you tried other packages and did you find yourself more limited in them when it came to adding aesthetic curves, and so forth?

Thanks!
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Bellus » 2014-Jun-Mon-22-Jun

jwiede wrote:
Jon Lawrence wrote:I design in Solidworks.

Yep, nothing like having really nice (read as: expensive) CAD tools to use! Your designs typically have an aesthetic aspect, where most others are brute-force utilitarian. Have you tried other packages and did you find yourself more limited in them when it came to adding aesthetic curves, and so forth?

Thanks!


I ended up getting a copy of solid works student edition for $20. As far as I can tell and have read, the only thing different is it says"not a professional copy" on it. I like the program and how easy to use/learn.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Baedarlboo » 2014-Jun-Mon-22-Jun

Simple 1405 upgrade kit along with Jon's no sag y axis mod, Jon's x axis bed mod with a 12"x9" aluminum bed. :mrgreen:
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jul-Tue-07-Jul

jwiede wrote:Yep, nothing like having really nice (read as: expensive) CAD tools to use! Your designs typically have an aesthetic aspect, where most others are brute-force utilitarian. Have you tried other packages and did you find yourself more limited in them when it came to adding aesthetic curves, and so forth?

I use SolidWorks as a part of my job so it is only logical to use it here. I am interested in other platforms, but unfortunately my interests far exceed my available time so taking the time to learn another cad package when I am so adept at this one just doesn't fit in at the moment.

The ability to design more organic shapes and structures is more a factor of experience than the specific cad package. I have over 10 years on SolidWorks using it daily, and AutoCad before that. One very nice thing about SoidWorks is how intuitive it is to learn. For the most part, you can stumble your way around and figure things out.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Baedarlboo » 2014-Jul-Tue-07-Jul

In the 1405 instructions it states to flip the Y axis plug on the board, and the end stop has moved. If you're assembling the 1405 upgrade with Jon's Y axis mod, do you keep the Y motor plug and end stop in the original configuration, or do you flip the plug and move the end stop to the front? I'm assuming they did this because moving to the belt it reversed the operation of the Y motor and axis movement...
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jul-Tue-08-Jul

Baedarlboo wrote:In the 1405 instructions it states to flip the Y axis plug on the board, and the end stop has moved. If you're assembling the 1405 upgrade with Jon's Y axis mod, do you keep the Y motor plug and end stop in the original configuration, or do you flip the plug and move the end stop to the front? I'm assuming they did this because moving to the belt it reversed the operation of the Y motor and axis movement...

Those are two completely separate items, be careful not to confuse them.

Here is a link that helps describe the X,Y,Z directions. Pay close attention to what direction is positive Y (head moving away from you).
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3484

Item 1, Y motor Plug: How you plug in the motor into the board defines what direction the Y axis moves. If you manually tell the motor to move in a positive Y direction, the value displayed on the screen should increase and the hot end should move toward the rear of the machine. Position 0,0,0 is always the front left corner on a simple. Do not confuse the Y movement direction with the home position. Plug in your Y motor whichever way makes positive Y move to the rear of the machine.

Item 2, Home location: The home location can be any location and does not have to be at X=0, Y=0, and Z=0. The original 2013 & 2014 Simples used position 0,0,0 (front left corner) as the home. With the relocation of the Y home switch on the 1405 model the home position has changed to X=0, Y=100 (or max), Z=0. The home position for each axis is defined as either "Max" or "Min" depending on where the switch is mounted. In the case of the 1405 model the Y home position has changed from "Min" to "Max".

Note: On my 1405 Simple YZ plate mod I have available mounting positions on both sides (Min & Max) so the Y home switch can be mounted wherever works best for you.

Not sure if I answered your question, or just stated something you already knew. Basically I would not attempt to reference if the plug is "flipped" or not from one version to the other, but rather just plug it in, see what way the axis moves, and if the axis is going the wrong way, power down & flip the connector. Once the motion direction is sorted out then tackle the home position.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Gajol » 2014-Jul-Tue-13-Jul

Hi

Will the front part of this fit on your "old" no sag mod ?
as i have the old 2014 model and not 1405 but i am using a auto bed probe so cant use the the "old" mod :/
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jul-Tue-13-Jul

Gajol wrote:...Will the front part of this fit on your "old" no sag mod ?
as i have the old 2014 model and not 1405 but i am using a auto bed probe so cant use the the "old" mod :/

Yes, the front and back will both fit on the "previous" no sag mod.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Baedarlboo » 2014-Jul-Tue-14-Jul

Thanks Jon, makes sense. The instructions for the 1405 got me confused.
On another note, anyone else having issues with the Y axis motor hitting the Z coupler? Looks like I have to raise my bed due to the interference, is this normal?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby vcolombo » 2014-Jul-Wed-10-Jul

Hi,

I'm going to order some new rods for this upgrade and was wondering if there's a maximum length that you would recommend?

Thank you,

Vince
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jul-Wed-13-Jul

vcolombo wrote:...I'm going to order some new rods for this upgrade and was wondering if there's a maximum length that you would recommend?...

Maximum is only limited to how crazy you feel.

Add about 8" to whatever print area you want (for a double precision setup). Personally I don't think I would push the print area more than about 8" so rods around 400mm would work for me. If you are not so restricted on bench space, longer will not hurt anything so if you find some around 500mm for a good deal I wouldn't hesitate to pick them up.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby vcolombo » 2014-Jul-Wed-13-Jul

Thanks for the response, Jon!

Another question... I'm running into problems printing the extended Y plate. At the back of the print I'm hitting the Y stop and the back of the print is getting all mangled. Has anyone else run into this and, if so, have you managed to work around it somehow?

Thanks,

Vince
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jul-Wed-15-Jul

vcolombo wrote:Thanks for the response, Jon!

Another question... I'm running into problems printing the extended Y plate. At the back of the print I'm hitting the Y stop and the back of the print is getting all mangled. Has anyone else run into this and, if so, have you managed to work around it somehow?

Thanks,

Vince

What's your slicing program?

Have you turned off the skirt?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jul-Wed-15-Jul

vcolombo wrote:...
Another question... I'm running into problems printing the extended Y plate. At the back of the print I'm hitting the Y stop and the back of the print is getting all mangled. Has anyone else run into this and, if so, have you managed to work around it somehow?
...

Yes, skirt and brim need to be off. Also possible your slicing program is not centering the object on the build platform. If those don't work, try rotating it 90 degrees.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby vcolombo » 2014-Jul-Wed-16-Jul

I'm using Simplify3D, have turned off skirt and brim, and have my build volume set to 185x100x165.

Just tried it again and ended up with a mess of spaghetti and killed the print.

July 02, 2014 at 0448PM.jpg
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Jul-Wed-17-Jul

Looks like you have a bit of work to do.

Painter's Tape + Heated bed doesn't really work all that well. Try printing on the aluminum.

Check cooling and make sure your Ubis extrudes properly. My ubis requires a stupid amount of force to extrude, and is pretty much dead now.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby vcolombo » 2014-Jul-Wed-17-Jul

I actually don't have the heated bed hooked up right now. I'm able to print other things just fine, it's just when printing all the way at the back of the bed that things end up getting messed up. Just printed an iPhone dock and Jon's new calibration cube today without issue.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jul-Wed-18-Jul

Is your probe properly calibrated?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby vcolombo » 2014-Jul-Wed-18-Jul

orangefurball wrote:Is your probe properly calibrated?


As far as I know
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Jul-Wed-19-Jul

Home all your axises and verify that it can travel the full 100mm in the Y direction.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jul-Wed-19-Jul

Do you have G29 in your GCode? If not it will only home, if its homing at the front of the bed and the back is lower than it won't work.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby vcolombo » 2014-Jul-Wed-19-Jul

Thanks for all the suggestions, but I think I found the issue. It seems the wire bundle was getting caught between they Y motor and the back of the Y carriage, so when the Y axis moved all the way forward for large prints that are nearly maxing out the print bed, it wasn't making it quite far enough and throwing everything off just slightly. I moved the wire bundle out of the way and I'm a couple layers into a print of the extended Y axis plate. I'm a bit concerned that the wire bundle is going to move as the Z axis goes up, but I'll have to keep an eye on things and move it out of the way again if it does. Once this print is finished I'll have to find a way to make sure that can't happen again.

Thanks again,

Vince
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jul-Wed-21-Jul

vcolombo wrote:Thanks for all the suggestions, but I think I found the issue. It seems the wire bundle was getting caught between they Y motor and the back of the Y carriage, so when the Y axis moved all the way forward for large prints that are nearly maxing out the print bed, it wasn't making it quite far enough and throwing everything off just slightly. I moved the wire bundle out of the way and I'm a couple layers into a print of the extended Y axis plate. I'm a bit concerned that the wire bundle is going to move as the Z axis goes up, but I'll have to keep an eye on things and move it out of the way again if it does. Once this print is finished I'll have to find a way to make sure that can't happen again.

Thanks again,

Vince

My wore bundle used to get in the way, strategic placements of zip ties resolved the issue.

Just play around with it till you find the sweet spot
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby mummson » 2014-Jul-Thu-19-Jul

About the fans, do the extra fans get power from the psu or is it ok to daisy chain the fans to the PBboard?
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jul-Thu-21-Jul

mummson wrote:About the fans, do the extra fans get power from the psu or is it ok to daisy chain the fans to the PBboard?

I would wire it to the PSU, the the board will probably burn out if you try to run too many.

Alternatively you can wire the red wire of the fan to the rest wire of a USB port and the black to the black, then use a USB wall wart (the brick that comes with call phones and tablets) and you can run a fan off of the USB port.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby mummson » 2014-Jul-Fri-10-Jul

orangefurball wrote:
mummson wrote:About the fans, do the extra fans get power from the psu or is it ok to daisy chain the fans to the PBboard?

I would wire it to the PSU, the the board will probably burn out if you try to run too many.

Alternatively you can wire the red wire of the fan to the rest wire of a USB port and the black to the black, then use a USB wall wart (the brick that comes with call phones and tablets) and you can run a fan off of the USB port.


Cool beans! I'll figure something out.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Jul-Fri-14-Jul

I hooked my E3D hotend fan up straight to the power supply.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jul-Fri-18-Jul

Me too, all fans directly off the ATX power supply except the part cooling which is controlled by the Printrboard.
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby orangefurball » 2014-Jul-Fri-19-Jul

Does anyone know of a way to attach two fans to the part fan port? That was there can be two cooling fans
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Re: 1405 Makers Simple 300mm Y Axis No Sag

Postby KD6HQ » 2014-Jul-Fri-20-Jul

Instead of attaching 2 fans to the fan port, attach a relay board.
Then you can have several different devices attached to the fan port
so that they all start when the fan does. For instance you could
have some leds light up the printing area at the same time.
This one happens to have dual relays but there are single ones also.
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