Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Sun-09-Apr

So after having a bit of a rant to the missus about shipping costs I figured it really can't be that hard to make my own heated bed seeing as I had all the stuff needed for cct board fabrication at home after reading all of the info on here and around the web I could find. so here is what I ended up with.

My plan was to use the original simples alli surface as my heated bed and clip it all to the new XL wood bed I had fitted.

My theory was to have it at around 2 ohm and to run it on 12v so like 6A draw through a SSR and a separate supply.

after a bit of math I drew up the cct board design in inkscape because I find it a bit faster than eagle or similar. (my SVG http://goo.gl/3fnjgV)

Then I used the iron on method to transfer it to the blank board and etch it.

Image
Image

My ohmage was a little high. Measures in at 3.1ohm. i am thinking i;ll grab one my my 24 v supplies and run it on that but for now i am still using the 12v.

I ran it up off the machine. Took about 20 odd seconds to get to 55dC I put some kapton tape over it and then ran it right up to 110dC ( took about 7 or 8 minutes from memory ) ( and yes i know that this is without an actual bed or something real times is longer )

Image

And here it is all fitted into my simple.

Image

First real thing I printed on it was the x belt mod and it came out great I have no problem with sticking anymore it even sticks straight to the Alli bed.

Image
Image

All in all I'm very happy with the results and i thought I would share.

Comments / feedback welcomed and encouraged!

Aaron
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Home Made PCB Heater Bed

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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Apr-Sun-10-Apr

Well done. Now you're ahead of the game when it's time to make a larger bed.
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby RetireeJay » 2014-Apr-Sun-10-Apr

Nice work.

I recommend using some kind of hold-down on your wires so that the flexing does not occur at the solder joints where the wires meet the board. Let the wires flex somewhere else, but if they flex right at the solder joint they're gonna break real soon.
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby REPRAP SQUAD » 2014-Apr-Sun-10-Apr

This is what I did to keep the wires from flexing near the soldered joints. Its a bit of overkill but I had all the parts available and it also works as an easy way to remove my heated bed.
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Sun-18-Apr

RetireeJay wrote:Nice work.

I recommend using some kind of hold-down on your wires so that the flexing does not occur at the solder joints where the wires meet the board. Let the wires flex somewhere else, but if they flex right at the solder joint they're gonna break real soon.


REPRAP SQUAD wrote:This is what I did to keep the wires from flexing near the soldered joints. Its a bit of overkill but I had all the parts available and it also works as an easy way to remove my heated bed.


that was next on my todo list ATM they are just zip tied on. Aparently my grab kits are lacking as i had no terminal strips lol!
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Wed-17-Apr

How is this homemade PCB heater bed doing? If this homemade bed works well, I will probably make one.
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Wed-18-Apr

greenb wrote:How is this homemade PCB heater bed doing? If this homemade bed works well, I will probably make one.


Amazeballz!

the ohmage is a little high so at 12 volts it is a bit slow to heat up the aluminium bed ( bout 5-7 min to 60dC )
but i normaly just turn it on before i start to place the items for slicing.

If i was to redo it i would probably make it bigger and dual "elements" to reduce the ohm's.

Since i put Kapton tape across the entire surface i have had no issues with sticking or removing ( after it cools off a bit )

i have not tried to print ABS on it tho. if you like I will crank it up to 110dC and see what happens tonight when i get home.

i would also recommend an LED or something to say that it is on. ( i am going to jury rig one on each end, on the big pads )

* edit * oh and i am sure it is covered else where but make sure you use good wire for everything, My bed is isolated from the Printrbot Board by Solid State Relays. and has it's own PSU ( a 350w PC PSU ) and it drops the voltage down a fair bit. and i added the strain relief to the bed as recommended above.
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Wed-19-Apr

I can't justify spending 30 bucks on a 6×6 heated bed that I am only going to use until I finish printing the upgrades for my Printrbot Simple. I have been looking all over the place for heat bed designs and it is ironic that the last image I clicked on brought me here. I am still fairly new but I catch on quickly, however I still have some questions. If you could post a image of your relay setup, that would be awesome. I was planning on using an atx power supply because I do not want to draw that kind of amperage through my Printrboard. Did you engrave both sides of the pcb to reduce warp? How big is your circuit board? The pcb I am going to get is from radio shack http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102495 it is 4.5" x 6.125" (11.4cm x 15.5cm). You have already been a huge help to me, I feel kinda bad for dumping all these questions on you.
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Wed-20-Apr

greenb wrote:I can't justify spending 30 bucks on a 6×6 heated bed that I am only going to use until I finish printing the upgrades for my Printrbot Simple. I have been looking all over the place for heat bed designs and it is ironic that the last image I clicked on brought me here. I am still fairly new but I catch on quickly, however I still have some questions. If you could post a image of your relay setup, that would be awesome. I was planning on using an atx power supply because I do not want to draw that kind of amperage through my Printrboard. Did you engrave both sides of the pcb to reduce warp? How big is your circuit board? The pcb I am going to get is from radio shack http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102495 it is 4.5" x 6.125" (11.4cm x 15.5cm). You have already been a huge help to me, I feel kinda bad for dumping all these questions on you.


haha yeah it wasnt the heater that was expensive for me it was the shipping... another 30 - 40 bucks...

i'll take some photos and draw up a basic diagram when i get home ( 10 hours from now )

I had a peice of 40cm x 40cm board that was single sided that i cut to size i think mine is 185mm x 110mm with the excess. cause i was using the aluminium bed i wasn't worried about warp. I'd be happy to change the design to fit your board if it is not quite the right size aswell.

with a dual sided board if you put a element of both sides it would half the resistance and help ALOT with heatup speeds but the current would be higher. ( my SSR's are maxed at 6 amps so I would need new ones to do this )

i'm happy to help where i can so ask away ( as far as i am concerned the only stupid question is the one not asked. )

if you were planning on using it like i have then that board should be big enough. as long as it can overhang on a side to get the wires onto the pads. ( may need to be at the front )
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Wed-20-Apr

pvyParts wrote:
I'd be happy to change the design to fit your board if it is not quite the right size aswell.

I am using just the plain simple builders kit. If this pcb could be designed to fit this aluminum bed, I would be more than happy :D
Other than that, I really can't come up with anything else.

On a side note, I have etched circuits before but they were nothing like this. I think it would be cool if we could do a sticky with heatbed etching. I think this is a good skill for people to learn, plus you get a heatbed in the process. I think it is more important to build things and learn how it works instead of just buying it and not knowing how it works.
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Wed-20-Apr

greenb wrote:
pvyParts wrote:
I'd be happy to change the design to fit your board if it is not quite the right size aswell.

I am using just the plain simple builders kit. If this pcb could be designed to fit this aluminum bed, I would be more than happy :D
Other than that, I really can't come up with anything else.

On a side note, I have etched circuits before but they were nothing like this. I think it would be cool if we could do a sticky with heatbed etching. I think this is a good skill for people to learn, plus you get a heatbed in the process. I think it is more important to build things and learn how it works instead of just buying it and not knowing how it works.


I'll check the size of my bed when I get home but if your gonna put it on the existing aluminum bed and screw onto the holes that are there I'm sure we can make one to fit. sling it under the bed so no loss of zheight I have the xl so I didn't care about loosing 5mm of z

Anyway I'll do some measurements and stuff tonight.

The etching is pretty easy the hardest step is transferring the cct to the board. I have some cct transfer sheets that I liberate from work ( we don't make PCBs anymore ) you laser print it on then iron at medium to the board and the toner stocks to the board and peels off the transfer sheet ( hence the blue in my pics above. ) you can use plain paper but removing the paper can be tricky. Or the clear overhead paper stuff that schools used to use. I also like the UV etchable boards they are a bit easier. there is a Google group/mailing list dedicated to this that. Either way it is a handy skill.
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Wed-21-Apr

I am pretty sure I am going use this as a guide http://reprap.org/wiki/Etched_heatbed_construction
I liked the idea of using lacquer pens for repairing breaches, I am pretty sure that I am going to make mistakes. What are you using for a heatbed temperature sensor? I just realized that I am going to have to order a sensor or find one locally.
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Wed-21-Apr

greenb wrote:I am pretty sure I am going use this as a guide http://reprap.org/wiki/Etched_heatbed_construction
I liked the idea of using lacquer pens for repairing breaches, I am pretty sure that I am going to make mistakes. What are you using for a heatbed temperature sensor? I just realized that I am going to have to order a sensor or find one locally.


any 100k thermister will do fine AFAIK ( the printrboard is setup for this ) i have a nice collection of stuff here so i just pulled it out of a box i cant give you any more info than that xD ( it is a little glass nob on the end of 2 copper wires ) radio shack probably stocks them i know my local suppliers do but they are no help to you as they are in australia xD they are cheep as.

you'll need some connectors and stuff too. i didn't want to trash my ATX supply ( it came out of a mini pc ) so i used a couple of the molex connectors to get onto each yellow wire ( again photos later ) and then the little 3 or 4 pin one for the relay feed from the pritrboard and 2 pin one for the thermister.

as for those destructions they look good. my few tips
If you can crank the toner thickness up on the printer to max ( most cheep printers you cant )
The paper you may have trouble with jsut plain 80gsm white paper i'd recommend something less stringy some guys have had luck with a matt finish photo paper but yeah
Cut the cct down to the size of your cct board for easy aligning. i used some tape to hold it on too but thats a personal preference thing.
Iron Temp is dependant of the paper type. i cant use high temps cause i use a plastic paper transfer sheet.
if using paper when removing the paper leave it soaking in a tub/sink/etc for a good while till the paper is clear and almost comes off on its own
The etching compound i use is "Ammonium Persulphate"
don't over etch :-)
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Thu-00-Apr

Did you put any thermal paste between your pcb and the aluminum printbed? I think the heatbed would heat up faster due to better heat transfer.
Image
http://reprap.org/wiki/RepRapPro_Huxley_heatbed_assembly

What are you using to insulate the bottom of the pcb? I hear cork works very well.
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Thu-00-Apr

greenb wrote:Did you put any thermal paste between your pcb and the aluminum printbed? I think the heatbed would heat up faster due to better heat transfer.
http://reprap.org/wiki/RepRapPro_Huxley_heatbed_assembly

What are you using to insulate the bottom of the pcb? I hear cork works very well.


i thought about it but no i didn't. i have a shiteload of that goop but it was gonna be messy maybe once i get it to the point that i am not dismantling it every other day. i thought about getting some of the heat transfer tape that they use on FETS and the likes
tape like this http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=NM2790
my setup is like this

1 Kapton Tape on print Surface
2 Aluminium Bed
3 thin kapton tape stuck to the pcb for electrical insulation
4 heater elements on pcb up towards the alluminium
5 wooden Simple XL bed < -- insulatorish

it is all held together but bulldog clips. as i have been removing the aluminium plate to remove my prints.
heading home in a few hours xD more photos and stuff soon lol...
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Sat-00-Apr

pvyParts wrote:
heading home in a few hours xD more photos and stuff soon lol...


lol did you make it home alright?
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Sat-20-Apr

greenb wrote:
pvyParts wrote:
heading home in a few hours xD more photos and stuff soon lol...


lol did you make it home alright?


its a long storey. xD in a nut shell yes but only a hour ago. wish i could say it was a good weekend tho... xD i'm just measuring up my bed to make the board design for ya :-) will add it in a few :-)
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Sat-20-Apr

Ok thanks, i've been waiting patiently :D
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Sat-20-Apr

greenb wrote:Ok thanks, i've been waiting patiently :D


haha yeah sorry about that the pcb you linked is gonna be a tight fit on the stock aluminum board if you mount it on the holes that are there but i think it will fit ( Just )with both sides etched :)
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Sat-21-Apr

I was thinking about buying this http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/6x6-heat-bed-240.html
However I also want to etch one XD

They have heatbed relay's but it costs 15 bucks http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/printer-electronics/heat-bed-relay.html
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Sat-21-Apr

greenb wrote:I was thinking about buying this http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/6x6-heat-bed-240.html
However I also want to etch one XD

They have heatbed relay's but it costs 15 bucks http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/printer-electronics/heat-bed-relay.html


haha no worries either way. i like to experiment my self anyway xD i hadn't seen that one from maker farm :) ( still costs me +$20 to $50 in postage lol )

here is the one i drew up i think it should run around 1.8 - 2.2 ohms but it depends on the thickness of the boards cladding etc.

heater-114x155svg.png


the red is the aluminum board black is the cct etch
the printable ones are in the folder here as are the SVG files for editing or printing or scaling etc
http://goo.gl/VG2IVK
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Sat-22-Apr

Sweet, somebody commented that the copper clad is 0.016 inches or 0.39mm thick. I hope that helps. I might buy a small heated bed and then mill one later with this :D http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:49484
Image
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Sun-01-Apr

greenb wrote:Sweet, somebody commented that the copper clad is 0.016 inches or 0.39mm thick. I hope that helps. I might buy a small heated bed and then mill one later with this :D http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:49484
Image


i started collecting parts for this this week :) i have wanted a pcb mill for a while. lol!
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Sun-11-Apr

I like the idea of milling my own pcb's, then I can make custom shields for the arduino. They have a cyclone on thingiverse that is more rigid; it might be overkill for pcb's but they have a video of it milling acrylic. I think it would be interesting to see if it can mill aluminum. Then you could 3d print a cnc machine and mill it's own upgrades.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:238329
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5_7IKoARFU
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Wed-19-Apr

greenb wrote:I like the idea of milling my own pcb's, then I can make custom shields for the arduino. They have a cyclone on thingiverse that is more rigid; it might be overkill for pcb's but they have a video of it milling acrylic. I think it would be interesting to see if it can mill aluminum. Then you could 3d print a cnc machine and mill it's own upgrades.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:238329
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5_7IKoARFU


prety much the same reasons i am wanting one :)

have some more info on my board. i uped the bed voltage to 35v DC and now it heats up to from 20dC to 60dC in about 60 seconds :) not as consistant +-5dC when opperating i keep forgetting to get a Screenshot tho lol.
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby greenb » 2014-Apr-Wed-19-Apr

pvyParts wrote:
have some more info on my board. i uped the bed voltage to 35v DC and now it heats up to from 20dC to 60dC in about 60 seconds :) not as consistant +-5dC when opperating i keep forgetting to get a Screenshot though lol.


20dC to 60dC in about 60 seconds :shock: that seems pretty fast. With the +-5dC variation, is this change over the entire circuit or just in some localized spots? It would be great if we could make this circuit more consistent. Maybe the pcb is heating up faster than the Printrboard realizes and then overcorrects?
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby pvyParts » 2014-Apr-Wed-20-Apr

greenb wrote:
pvyParts wrote:
have some more info on my board. i uped the bed voltage to 35v DC and now it heats up to from 20dC to 60dC in about 60 seconds :) not as consistant +-5dC when opperating i keep forgetting to get a Screenshot though lol.


20dC to 60dC in about 60 seconds :shock: that seems pretty fast. With the +-5dC variation, is this change over the entire circuit or just in some localized spots? It would be great if we could make this circuit more consistent. Maybe the pcb is heating up faster than the Printrboard realizes and then overcorrects?


i think that is due to the config of the printrbot board / type of ssr. i think it is trying to pwm my ssr's but they have a built in "stabiliser" by the looks they stay on for a bit after the sofware says they are off. and take a second to turn on when they software says they are on ( about a second each way )

this is the reading off of the thermister. ( that is only taped to the top of the aluminium print bed with a bit of thermal tape between it and the surface for good measure )

it should seam fast it is almost 10x in power output ( 350ish watt depending on many things up from 40ish watts )
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby pvyParts » 2014-May-Thu-03-May

Did a test when i got home.

and here is how it works :) this is @ 30v DC
vertical lines are 30 seconds even tho it says last 60 min
it only goes +2dC ish :)
hEATER.png
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby WarHawk8080 » 2017-Feb-Tue-00-Feb

Holy thread necromancy batman!

Best way to bond these raw copper pcb's to is to put a thin layer of clear silicon on the board, smooth out as evenly as possible with a popsicle stick, apply same type layer on the object you are bonding (say a glass bed) place objects together, then place a thick hardcover book on them, and apply pressure with something heavy...wait 24 hrs and voila

The silicon will protect the copper from moisture and corrosion, ensure even heat transfer due to lower thermal conductivity but MUCH better than air silicon resin is .32, air is .024, two part epoxy is .35 but it cures very hard and inflexible) , ensures flexible bond between the fr4 board and the glass and allow for expansion without creating stress points. and be see thru allowing you to show off your awesome design.

Amazing thing is
"100% Silicone has good resistance to weathering, vibration, moisture, ozone and extreme temperatures. It may be applied in sub-zero weather without loss of extrusion or physical property characteristics. Fully cured 100% Silicone can be used for extended periods at temperatures up to 450°F (232°C), and for shorter periods as high as 500°F (260°C). Test have shown that even after two months at 450°F (232°C), or up to one week at 500° (260°C), the sealant remains rubbery."

I also saw that Amazon was selling some GE Silicone II and stated that it is rated up to 400°F and down to -65°F.

Just be advised until it has cured (24hrs) it's flash point is 93~°C so don't crank up the heat till it's fully cured!

I used it to bond a chunk of 1/4" cork/fiber board to the bottom of my cheap Chinese Anet A8 heater board just so I could run the bed temp up enough to print ABS, and have run my bed up to 110°C with no issues, and it's directly bonded to the bottom of the aluminum heat bed.

With that said, I am needing assistance making a 80x80mm one of these at say around 40 watts for a little printer called the Tinyboy aka the hobbyking fabrikator mini, OP...would you be willing to assist?
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WarHawk8080
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby Mooselake » 2017-Feb-Tue-07-Feb

Put a thermal fuse, like the ones used in coffee makers and other appliances, inline with the bed. The heater circuits used in reprap controllers can fail and stay on, and cause a fire hazard. Never leave this printer unattended. Put it on a GFI protected circuit, too.

Kirk
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Re: Home Made PCB Heater Bed

Postby Mooselake » 2017-Feb-Tue-07-Feb

It's a common mistake [WHITE SMILING FACE]...

Silicon (no E) s a mineral that occurs in beach sand, and among other things is used in glass and semiconductors. Silicone (with an E) is a silicon containing compound used in, among other things, adhesive and curvaceous body implants. The names are not interchangeable.

Kirk
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