Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby hykgoml » 2013-Sep-Tue-16-Sep

Of the woes I have to share about this reversed extruder one has me confused.
Background
Simple purchased assembled about 2 months ago (give or take few days).
Few accidental power cable pulls as printer was not in safest spot (dining-room table)..
Moved bot to safer spot but firmware has been wonky since then. (like I can't access the firmware from Repetier host anymore)
Finally got around to flashing firmware today followed the Software setup guide to set everything back to stock.
Now the w0nky bit...
The extruder runs backwards as in, extrude is retract and retract is extrude.
The rest of the axis work fine and go in the correct direction and distance.

Lost.. as the extruder connector is directional I can't just flip it. So lost on what just happnend and other than spice and dice the cable not sure where to change in software.
OSX/Repetier
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Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby mdfast1 » 2013-Sep-Tue-17-Sep

Can you edit your configuration.h firmware file. Look for this line:

#define INVERT_E0_DIR false // for direct drive extruder v9 set to true, for geared extruder set to false

I'm not sure how to extract the .hex file and look at settings of the firmware on:
https://github.com/Printrbot/Printrbot-Simple-Firmware

My guess is that when they swapped from geared to direct drive they updated the firmware. Did the simple ever have a geared extruder?
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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby RetireeJay » 2013-Sep-Tue-17-Sep

1) Use the command line in Repetier (or Pronterface) to send an M503 command. This will give you a listing in the log file of all the EEPROM settings.
2) in that log file, find the entry M92... Exxx
3) Take note of the value following the "E" This is the steps per millimeter for the Extruder.
4) Use the command line to send M92 E-xxx (That's the same value you read in step 3, but with a minus sign.)
5) Check and make sure this solves your problem.
6) If it does solve your problem, send M500 in the command line to make the change "permanent"

There are links on this forum to documentation about the G-code commands, and a diagram of how the M500 series of commands work is in a "sticky" near the top of one sub-forum.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby hykgoml » 2013-Sep-Tue-19-Sep

Thanks for that (above) I will try later tonight.
I realized on the drive home I was confusing the access to the EPROM in the GUI with a different printer. DOH!
But the reversal issue is real, I assure you..
Even if I do get it fixed in gcode (great idea by the way), still not sure HOW it happened with a firmware flash..

Oh and the answer the other question it is a Simple purchased in July from the Printrbot website, assembled. Wonder if it had the marlin setting you mention.. hrm...
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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby bradleyc » 2013-Sep-Tue-19-Sep

Had this exact problem after reflashed my firmware. It only happens on the extruder.

Have a look at the FAQs here. It's at the bottom. Number 5 should solve your problem.

http://www.printrbottalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=4454
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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby hykgoml » 2013-Sep-Tue-19-Sep

I got it to change the value but it still does not work.
Now the log says it's too long to extrude.

< 5:51:39 PM: echo: Last Updated: Printrbot Simple | Author: Caleb Cotter & Jeremy Gallegos
< 5:51:39 PM: FIRMWARE_NAME:Marlin V1; Sprinter/grbl mashup for gen6 FIRMWARE_URL:http://www.mendel-parts.com PROTOCOL_VERSION:1.0 MACHINE_TYPE:Mendel EXTRUDER_COUNT:1
< 5:52:04 PM: echo:Steps per unit:
< 5:52:04 PM: echo: M92 X119.00 Y119.00 Z2020.00 E102.00
< 5:52:04 PM: echo:Maximum feedrates (mm/s):
< 5:52:04 PM: echo: M203 X200.00 Y200.00 Z10.00 E100.00
< 5:52:04 PM: echo:Maximum Acceleration (mm/s2):
< 5:52:04 PM: echo: M201 X3000 Y3000 Z100 E10000
< 5:52:04 PM: echo:Acceleration: S=acceleration, T=retract acceleration
< 5:52:04 PM: echo: M204 S1500.00 T1500.00
< 5:52:04 PM: echo:Advanced variables: S=Min feedrate (mm/s), T=Min travel feedrate (mm/s), B=minimum segment time (ms), X=maximum xY jerk (mm/s), Z=maximum Z jerk (mm/s)
< 5:52:04 PM: echo: M205 S0.00 T0.00 B20000 X20.00 Z0.40 E5.00
< 5:52:04 PM: echo:PID settings:
< 5:52:04 PM: echo: M301 P22.20 I1.08 D114.00
< 5:52:43 PM: echo:Steps per unit:
< 5:52:43 PM: echo: M92 X119.00 Y119.00 Z2020.00 E-102.00
< 5:52:43 PM: echo:Maximum feedrates (mm/s):
< 5:52:43 PM: echo: M203 X200.00 Y200.00 Z10.00 E100.00
< 5:52:43 PM: echo:Maximum Acceleration (mm/s2):
< 5:52:43 PM: echo: M201 X3000 Y3000 Z100 E10000
< 5:52:43 PM: echo:Acceleration: S=acceleration, T=retract acceleration
< 5:52:43 PM: echo: M204 S1500.00 T1500.00
< 5:52:43 PM: echo:Advanced variables: S=Min feedrate (mm/s), T=Min travel feedrate (mm/s), B=minimum segment time (ms), X=maximum xY jerk (mm/s), Z=maximum Z jerk (mm/s)
< 5:52:43 PM: echo: M205 S0.00 T0.00 B20000 X20.00 Z0.40 E5.00
< 5:52:43 PM: echo:PID settings:
< 5:52:43 PM: echo: M301 P22.20 I1.08 D114.00
< 5:54:01 PM: echo: too long extrusion prevented
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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby hykgoml » 2013-Sep-Tue-20-Sep

bradleyc wrote:Had this exact problem after reflashed my firmware. It only happens on the extruder.

Have a look at the FAQs here. It's at the bottom. Number 5 should solve your problem.

http://www.printrbottalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=105&t=4454


without cutting the cable I can not flip it. They used a different connector on this stepper and its directional.

edit: Spelling
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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby RetireeJay » 2013-Sep-Tue-21-Sep

hykgoml wrote:without cutting the cable I can not flip it. They used a different connector on this stepper and its directional.


Actually, you probably can change the wiring without cutting the cable. Most of these connectors use metal inserts that are locked into place by a little spring tab that engages a hole in the plastic shell when the insert is fully seated. So if you find that hole and push down on the tab (just the right amount; you don't want to break it off or permanently bend it) then you can usually pull the metal insert out of the shell. To reverse motor direction you only need to do this on two wires. Pick either end, it doesn't matter, but reverse the order of two wires on one end (or side, if you prefer) of the connector.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby hykgoml » 2013-Sep-Tue-21-Sep

M102 Turn extruder 1 on Reverse
Deprecated.

Tried that just in case it worked.. and it did not.
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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby hykgoml » 2013-Sep-Tue-21-Sep

RetireeJay wrote:
hykgoml wrote:without cutting the cable I can not flip it. They used a different connector on this stepper and its directional.


Actually, you probably can change the wiring without cutting the cable. Most of these connectors use metal inserts that are locked into place by a little spring tab that engages a hole in the plastic shell when the insert is fully seated. So if you find that hole and push down on the tab (just the right amount; you don't want to break it off or permanently bend it) then you can usually pull the metal insert out of the shell. To reverse motor direction you only need to do this on two wires. Pick either end, it doesn't matter, but reverse the order of two wires on one end (or side, if you prefer) of the connector.


Image
For reference on the 'not like the other connectors.'
and..
RetireeJay for the win!

Thanks!!!

I still don't know WHY this happened... it's not like (as you can see by the connector) I can't just have accidentally put it on backwards.
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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby bradleyc » 2013-Sep-Tue-23-Sep

So did you fixed it by reversing the outer wires like Jay said? Does it work now?

When you flashed the firmware, it was probably an older firmware that had the code for the extruder backwards. I think if there is a firmware out there that has the correct code for the extruder directional spin. So I guessed you could reverse the port or find the right firmware and reflash it.
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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby davec » 2013-Sep-Tue-23-Sep

The "Direct Drive Extruder" facing the shaft end, turns clockwise to extrude. The "Gear Driven Extruder" turns Counter Clockwise to Extrude.
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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby hykgoml » 2013-Sep-Tue-23-Sep

bradleyc wrote:So did you fixed it by reversing the outer wires like Jay said? Does it work now?

When you flashed the firmware, it was probably an older firmware that had the code for the extruder backwards. I think if there is a firmware out there that has the correct code for the extruder directional spin. So I guessed you could reverse the port or find the right firmware and reflash it.


Not the outer wires but the last 2 swapped. Pick which side you want to call the last or first 2. either way, swap 2 wires..
And yes.. works now!

I used the firmware that is downloaded from github, so if that's not the latest not sure where to get it.
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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby bradleyc » 2013-Sep-Wed-00-Sep

I got mine from github as well. So, it is probably the most updated one. Either the printrbot team don't realized the hardware problem yet or they haven't fixed up the code to reflect the new hardware change. Anyways, glad you got it working!
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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby Paxx » 2013-Oct-Tue-20-Oct

hykgoml wrote:Not the outer wires but the last 2 swapped. Pick which side you want to call the last or first 2. either way, swap 2 wires..
And yes.. works now!


Thanks to this thread and this post, I was able to make a quick fix to my PB Simple's reverse running extruder. Swapped two of the wires on one side of the 4 wire connector for the extruder and I was up and printing in a few minutes!!! Thanks!!!
Paxx
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Re: Extruder runs backwards? (reversed)

Postby christspringer271 » 2016-Jun-Wed-12-Jun

Its weird. Mine is not working.
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