Can't set endstop?

Can't set endstop?

Postby Zackett » 2016-Jun-Thu-21-Jun

I recently got into 3d printing and bought myself a printrbot play. Today I was having connectivity issues so I resorted to having to flash the firmware and reinstall it (updated it while I was at it) and it prints well again. Problem is that when I use the pronterface UI on cura and click on the manual axis arrows my printer won't hesitate to try to go outside it's range and will start grinding on any axis. My printer never used to do this. I'm no expert but I've read that I need to change the "soft limits" I'm the firmware. And I cant for the life of me figure out how I can do that? I can't find a tutorial on doing that anywhere. Help??
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Can't set endstop?

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Re: Can't set endstop?

Postby Zackett » 2016-Jul-Fri-05-Jul

Help anyone? I respons relatively soon would be appreciated
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Re: Can't set endstop?

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Jul-Fri-07-Jul

Zackett wrote:Help anyone? I respons relatively soon would be appreciated

Sorry, on my side of the world people typically sleep between the timing of your two posts. This forum is entirely run by volunteers, and response times can vary. Often the answer is fairly quick, but sometimes it's a few days. This could happen, for example, if one person reading the post thinks that a different volunteer is probably better-qualified to answer and so leaves the question hanging.

Anyway, all of your original questions have been answered. Here's a post on setting print dimensions: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10876&p=70095&hilit=M211#p70095. And, if you need it, here's a post on how to store any settings into EEPROM: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2763
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
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Re: Can't set endstop?

Postby Mooselake » 2016-Jul-Fri-09-Jul

Zackett wrote:Help anyone? I respons relatively soon would be appreciated

Search is your friend, either google with the site option, or the forum's built in search.

Looks like you may be in Georgia (the home of the peach, not the former soviet republic), so you should understand Jay's point about volunteers sleeping...

Printrbot has an official help forum of it's own, if you're desperate for a fast official answer, although they're employees and even more likely to not respond during the night. Brook has both Twitter and G+ accounts, so maybe he's up during the night and might answer. PB in it's wisdom has not provided a phone contact so email/forums are about all we have access to. Since you say "I recently got into 3d printing and bought myself a printrbot play." then likely you're still under warranty so open a ticket at Printrbot.com so your warranty doesn't expire while you're working on the issue.

If it's not a bed size issue then perhaps you reflashed with a firmware that has high limit endstops rather than where they're actually positioned. It's very likely that a PB Play shipped with the most recent firmware, since it's not changed very often (it's not like a smartphone which updates almost every day), so what you installed probably wasn't an upgrade, and may even have been for the wrong controller board and possibly model. Reflashing firmware is frequently not the answer to a problem, and carries a high risk (particularly if you're not familiar with the process) of trouble or even bricking your controller. I know it's an urban legend that reflashing is the most wonderful solution ever, but like many urban legends (think butter is bad for you even in moderation, don't get me started on the gluten free nonsense) is simply not true.

Good Luck
Kirk
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Re: Can't set endstop?

Postby Zackett » 2016-Jul-Fri-15-Jul

Mooselake wrote:
Zackett wrote:Help anyone? I respons relatively soon would be appreciated


If it's not a bed size issue then perhaps you reflashed with a firmware that has high limit endstops rather than where they're actually positioned. It's very likely that a PB Play shipped with the most recent firmware, since it's not changed very often (it's not like a smartphone which updates almost every day), so what you installed probably wasn't an upgrade, and may even have been for the wrong controller board and possibly model. Reflashing firmware is frequently not the answer to a problem, and carries a high risk (particularly if you're not familiar with the process) of trouble or even bricking your controller. I know it's an urban legend that reflashing is the most wonderful solution ever, but like many urban legends (think butter is bad for you even in moderation, don't get me started on the gluten free nonsense) is simply not true.

Good Luck
Kirk


I appreciate the help guys, but i dont think anything you guys listed could be the reason. my printer works, and i used the correct firmware update from printrbot for the play (which was updated on 6/13/16). And of course i googled it, this forum is a last resort because ive tried everything. I figured there was some setting i could change so that my printer was aware of the endstops.
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Re: Can't set endstop?

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Jul-Fri-16-Jul

The Marlin firmware, by default, ONLY pays attention to the "endstop" switches when executing a homing maneuver. At all other times, the "endstop" switches are IGNORED. And there's only one "endstop" switch per axis, so even if the switches were not being ignored you could still exceed the physical limits of travel in the other direction and get the motor grinding like you say.

It is possible, if you really want to try it, to compile the firmware with the "endstop" switches enabled all the time - but it's a whole lot harder to configure a version of Marlin from the source code than to just download a pre-compiled hex file, and that still doesn't fix the problem on the other end of each axis.

So, back to basics: yes, there are settings you need to update; that's really pretty common and should be expected. If you are willing to work with us just a little more, issue an M503 command and copy and paste the entire list of parameters so we can see if something jumps out at us.

See my first post (before Mooselake's); I think I did answer your quest for info on the "soft limits;" I'm sorry if it wasn't clear enough that I was referring to the same thing you were referring to. Although I can see now that I should have pointed you to the first post in the chain about setting the software limits of travel: viewtopic.php?f=15&t=10876 (All generations of Printrbots have used fundamentally very closely-related hardware and software so in most cases guidelines for the "Plus" apply equally to the "Simple" or the "Play.")
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Can't set endstop?

Postby Zackett » 2016-Jul-Fri-20-Jul

That answers a lot of my questions, thank you. I didnt know that default settings ignored the endstop. And of course, here is my settings on cura

> M503
< echo:Steps per unit:
< echo: M92 X80.00 Y80.00 Z2020.00 E96.00
< echo:Maximum feedrates (mm/s):
< echo: M203 X125.00 Y125.00 Z5.00 E14.00
< echo:Maximum Acceleration (mm/s2):
< echo: M201 X2000 Y2000 Z30 E10000
< echo:Acceleration: S=acceleration, T=retract acceleration
< echo: M204 S3000.00 T3000.00
< echo:Advanced variables: S=Min feedrate (mm/s), T=Min travel feedrate (mm/s), B=minimum segment time (ms), X=maximum XY jerk (mm/s), Z=maximum Z jerk (mm/s), E=maximum E jerk (mm/s)
< echo: M205 S0.00 T0.00 B20000 X20.00 Z0.40 E5.00
< echo:Home offset (mm):
< echo: M206 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
< echo:PID settings:
< echo: M301 P22.20 I1.08 D114.00
< echo:Min position (mm):
< echo: M210 X0.00 Y0.00 Z0.00
< echo:Max position (mm):
< echo: M211 X100.00 Y100.00 Z131.00
< echo:Bed probe offset (mm):
< echo: M212 X5.00 Y0.00 Z-0.65
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Re: Can't set endstop?

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Jul-Fri-20-Jul

According to Printrbot's specs for the Play, the X dimension is 100mm and the Y dimension is 105mm. So your
Zackett wrote:< echo:Max position (mm):
< echo: M211 X100.00 Y100.00 Z131.00

should be OK. But maybe it wouldn't hurt to shave a few mm off, and set max X to 97 and Y to 102 - just to stay on the safe side. My Plus supposedly has 200 X 200, but for whatever reason (mods, etc) my usable area now is more like 185 X 185; if I go beyond those, I get grinding. With my "soft limits" set correctly, I never get grinding.

Of course, if you try to use the arrows in the Pronterface interface to move toward positive X or positive Y before you have "homed" those axes, you can easily go beyond the physical limits of the machine. When you turn the 'bot on, it assumes that the current position of the printhead is 0, 0, 0, no matter where it actually is. So if you were to turn it on when X was really halfway across (50mm) and then, without homing, you tell it to move positive 60mm in X, it's gonna crash into the physical limit (50 + 60 = 110).

Note that the firmware by default won't allow you to move to negative values of X, Y, or Z.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Can't set endstop?

Postby Zackett » 2016-Jul-Sat-09-Jul

So your saying that the pronterface will always cause grinding if i use the arrows?
Also, i change my x and y axis limits with the M212 command right?
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Re: Can't set endstop?

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Jul-Sat-10-Jul

Zackett wrote:So your saying that the pronterface will always cause grinding if i use the arrows?


Absolutely not!!! All you have to do is "home" your axes first, and then if your bed dimensions are set correctly you will never, ever grind at the end of an axis. I'm pretty sure the Pronterface interface has some little "house" icons that you use to home the axes (X, Y, or Z individually, or all three with one click); you don't have to wait for the G-code in a printed part to do the homing. In fact, I've removed all homing commands from my G-code startup and I home manually every time.

Zackett wrote:Also, i change my x and y axis limits with the M212 command right?


No, it's the M211 command.
Zackett wrote:< echo:Max position (mm):
< echo: M211 X100.00 Y100.00 Z131.00


So, for example, you could type:
M211 X97.0 Y102.0

All parameters are optional, so you could change just X or just Y or just Z, or any combination of them in a single line command - or use individual lines if you prefer. After you change the limits, send an M500 command to store the new values in EEPROM so that they will be the same after you turn off your printer and turn it back on again.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Can't set endstop?

Postby Zackett » 2016-Jul-Sat-19-Jul

I typed the command you made in and saved it, i double checked it as well. Despite homing the printer i can still use the arrow keys to go beyond the limits and grind the motor. I even changed X 50 Y 50 and saved the command. The printer will home to a much smaller area on the bed, but after that i can simple press the x arrow and go beyond the limits and grind the motor again.. :cry:
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Re: Can't set endstop?

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Jul-Sat-20-Jul

Ouch. That's surprising and disappointing. All I can say is that some option in your firmware is set up differently.

In addition to setting the bed size in firmware (i.e. on the Printrboard's EEPROM), you should also set it in Cura (or Repetier + Slic3r). In Cura, the bed size is defined under "Machine" -> "Machine Settings." If you use Repetier and Slic3r instead of Cura, then you can set the bed size BOTH in Repetier AND in Slic3r. When all programs are using the same settings, you shouldn't have the problem. I always recommend entering the same settings in every place that they are available.

Anyway, if the objects you are printing don't exceed the bed size, and if they are properly centered by your slicer, then you should not have a problem with the printer exceeding its physical limits while doing a print.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
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Re: Can't set endstop?

Postby Zackett » 2016-Jul-Sat-21-Jul

I use cura, which of course sets the bed size correctly when you choose the printer you are using. Like i said before, i used the printer once since i flashed the firmware and it worked fine, i figured cura wouldnt let my printer go beyond the bed size limits. It just disturbs me that i can force the machine to go beyond its limits when i never was able to before. Perhaps the updated firmware i got from printrbot is set up different than what it used to be?

Anyways, i guess i theres no fix for this unless printrbot makes another update. I really appreciate your help and quick responses. Have a happy and safe 4th of July!
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Re: Can't set endstop?

Postby RetireeJay » 2016-Jul-Sun-05-Jul

Just FYI...
The only "sensors" of any type on the printer to tell it where it is are the "endstops" and Z "probe." In other words, once the printer has been homed, it keeps track of its position "open loop" relying on the (excellent) reliability of the stepper motors, and keeping track of how many steps forward or back have been issued to know where it is. Why does this matter? Two things: (1) It means that when you accidentally tell the printer to go 10mm beyond the end of the X axis, it's not going to keep trying to go to 110mm forever. It will issue the correct number of steps to get to 110mm and then stop. As far as the motor is concerned, it has only "hopped" between magnetic poles; nothing mechanical inside the motor is getting worn or damaged. So you don't need to panic and pull the plug. In fact, pulling the plug has a much higher risk of doing permanent damage than just letting the machine sit there and grind for a while. Although you don't want to make a habit of it, because it's hard on the belts and some other parts! (2) It means that when your machine does encounter an obstacle (either an end of travel on the axis or something else blocking its motion) then the actual position no longer corresponds with the theoretical position in the firmware. After such an incident, you need to re-home.

The exception to the memorized position based on counts is when doing a homing maneuver. In that case, the machine is moving toward the "endstop" switch and will keep on moving until the endstop is reached; it's not counting steps. So in that case, an axis whose motion is blocked will grind "forever" and you really do need to pull the plug or, preferably if you can do it, hit the little reset switch on the board.

Even if your motion limits are working correctly and the machine stops at the end of an axis without grinding, it can still get confused on the counts, so exceeding the bed size is never a good thing to do.
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Printrbot Plus operational January 2013
Brass threaded rods (5/16" X 18) & nuts for Z axis
GT2 belts & pulleys
Cable chain to reduce probability of fatigue failure in wires
E3D V5 Hot End, 0.4mm nozzle, also 0.8 and 0.25 in use occasionally
PB fan mount + 40mm fan -- using printed mount adapter, not the E3D supplied fan
Injection molded extruder gears
Optical Z "endstop" (custom designed and built)
Have used many pounds of T-Glase filament. Now also doing some work with Ninjaflex SemiFlex
Print on glass with Scotch Craft Stick or other glue stick
User avatar
RetireeJay
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