Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby ahaer » 2013-Dec-Fri-07-Dec

I realized that we had hijacked Jyxn's original post at viewtopic.php?f=106&t=5497 with discussion of Jon Lawerence's GT2 belt mod for X and Y on thingiverse and wanted to start a fresh topic to continue that discussion.

Here is the post where Jon gives the links for his models
Jon Lawrence wrote:For those who may be interested, I have posted my Simple X & Y axis timing belt drive reworked for GT2 belts and 608 bearings. I have my reservations about the Y axis since there is so little shaft/pulley engagement. For now my MXL version is working beautifully and no reason to try to change it out at the moment. If anybody successfully incorporates these please let me know.

http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:194586
http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:194686

I highly recommend that people look at the extra drawings that Jon included with his model as they include a "build/parts" pdf as well as a nice 3d picture of the model parts installed in the simple. The build PDF includes call outs for all printed and purchased parts which includes the name of the 3d file or the McMaster part# of the purchased part!
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Original PrintrBot Simple Beta Owner, upgraded to V2 with
- 360mm GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:215294 + thing:24061)
- 160mm GT2 belt-driven Y axis (thing:229854)
- 360mm x 160mm bed for GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:240601)
- 160mm Z axis (thing:215625)
- LED light ring and 40mm fan mount (thing:217224)
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Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby ahaer » 2013-Dec-Fri-07-Dec

from viewtopic.php?f=106&t=5497&p=36947#p36947
ahaer wrote:
Jon Lawrence wrote:Have you seen any issues with the limited pulley/shaft engagement for the GT2 pulley on the Y motor, and how much tension did you apply to the belt?


No problems so far. I think my motor shaft is going further into the gear than is shown in your drawings. I'll get a measurement for you tonight.


The motor shaft is 7mm too short. That is if the motor shaft were 7mm longer it would go through the entire gear.

You could pick up 3mm moving the bearings/gear/belt 3mm closer to the wood. That would leave you with 0.2mm space between the back gear flange and the wood. It is 3.9mm from wood to the back of the 608's
IMG_1923.JPG
Extra space between belt and gear
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Last edited by ahaer on 2013-Dec-Fri-09-Dec, edited 1 time in total.
Original PrintrBot Simple Beta Owner, upgraded to V2 with
- 360mm GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:215294 + thing:24061)
- 160mm GT2 belt-driven Y axis (thing:229854)
- 360mm x 160mm bed for GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:240601)
- 160mm Z axis (thing:215625)
- LED light ring and 40mm fan mount (thing:217224)
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby ahaer » 2013-Dec-Fri-07-Dec

Here is a picture of the installed y-belt mod.
IMG_1922.JPG
Installed Y-belt modifications


The only modification I made to the existing wood was to cut this notch. Using this notch I was able to put and the bearing on AFTER the y-axis was re-installed and tighten the set screw by inserting a normal allen key at a ~30 degree angle. Given the large flange on the GT2 gear from PrintrBot it is NOT possible to install the bearings after the gear because they overlap soo much. This would mean if I installed the GT2 and bearings before the re-installing the y-axis the clearance hole would have had to be big enough for the GT2 PLUS BOTH bearings..
IMG_1912.JPG
Notch cut into y-axis wood carrier
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Original PrintrBot Simple Beta Owner, upgraded to V2 with
- 360mm GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:215294 + thing:24061)
- 160mm GT2 belt-driven Y axis (thing:229854)
- 360mm x 160mm bed for GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:240601)
- 160mm Z axis (thing:215625)
- LED light ring and 40mm fan mount (thing:217224)
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby ahaer » 2013-Dec-Fri-08-Dec

Here is a picture of the X-axis mod installed:
IMG_1919.JPG
X mod installed


One very important point if you try this mod - your printer must be calibrated for you to have any hope of the main part fitting! I think my z-axis was a little "long" so I had to spend a while filing the tabs to get the part to fit with the wood parts.

A undocumented modification to a wood part is required to make this work. With the printrbot GT2 gear the large flange (17.75) mm would rub against the bottom. I had previously cut out this hole so that I could see the motor shaft shaft from the bottom. You may need to do the same. IMHO this is worthwhile thing to do in any case so that you can see what is going on.
IMG_1921.JPG
extra cutout to see y-motor shaft from bottom


There is one problem with this modification as it currently stands: There is a significant reduction in y travel (30mm) when the belt support pieces hit the bearings. Note the amount of unused rod to the left of the bearings
IMG_1917.JPG
interference between belt support and bearing


Even if the belt support didn't extend beyond the wood tabs there would still be a lot of unused travel. I'm sure that it is because the 608 bears are much larger diameter than what was used in the original MXL version
IMG_1916.JPG
interference with wood tabs


The fix for this problem is to rotate the y-axis rod plate 180 degrees so that the tabs are in front and make new belt support tabs. In this configuration the plate AND the bed move forward enough that the bed doesn't have to be raised over the bearings. This means less wobble and less new parts required! Now that I've got things back together I'll work new x-belt supports
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Last edited by ahaer on 2013-Dec-Fri-09-Dec, edited 1 time in total.
Original PrintrBot Simple Beta Owner, upgraded to V2 with
- 360mm GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:215294 + thing:24061)
- 160mm GT2 belt-driven Y axis (thing:229854)
- 360mm x 160mm bed for GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:240601)
- 160mm Z axis (thing:215625)
- LED light ring and 40mm fan mount (thing:217224)
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby ahaer » 2013-Dec-Fri-08-Dec

Another note - to make the Y-axis limit switch work properly I had to move the screw that trips the switch 15mm to the right. You can see this in the "X mod installed" photo of the previous post...
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Original PrintrBot Simple Beta Owner, upgraded to V2 with
- 360mm GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:215294 + thing:24061)
- 160mm GT2 belt-driven Y axis (thing:229854)
- 360mm x 160mm bed for GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:240601)
- 160mm Z axis (thing:215625)
- LED light ring and 40mm fan mount (thing:217224)
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2013-Dec-Fri-10-Dec

ahaer,
Thank you for the extensive feedback. Where to begin...
Y-axis:
ahaer wrote:The motor shaft is 7mm to short. That is if the motor shaft were 7mm longer it would go through the entire gear.

You could pick up 3mm moving the bearings/gear/belt 3mm closer to the wood. That would leave you with 0.2mm space between the back gear flange and the wood. It is 3.9mm from wood to the back of the 608's

That's great, I show the shaft is 12mm short in the model, and only 1.5mm clearance behind the plate and flange in the model, so I can certainly shorten the plate by a couple mm to help.

ahaer wrote:The only modification I made to the existing wood was to cut this notch. Using this notch I was able to put and the bearing on AFTER the y-axis was re-installed and tighten the set screw by inserting a normal allen key at a ~30 degree angle. Given the large flange on the GT2 gear from PrintrBot it is NOT possible to install the bearings after the gear because they overlap soo much. This would mean if I installed the GT2 and bearings before the re-installing the y-axis the clearance hole would have had to be big enough for the GT2 PLUS BOTH bearings..

Love the notch for access the set screws after assembly to adjust the pulley position, or simply tighten the set screws. Good suggestion!
If you install the gear with bearings to get the position on the shaft, remove the bearings, insert the pulley thru the Y-axis plate, and re-attach the Y-axis plate you should then be able to drop the bearings in from the top into position and insert the screw to anchor them. I used the same method on the MXL setup where the bearings sit inside the flanges, and I can install/remove the bearings after complete assembly.

Now for the X-axis:
ahaer wrote:One very important point if you try this mod - your printer must be calibrated for you to have any hope of the main part fitting! I think my z-axis was a little "long" so I had to spend a while filing the tabs to get the part to fit with the wood parts.

I have to admit, I made the part thicker after making the one on my machine. Mine came out way too thin, but maybe my Z-axis is off calibration the other direction. I made them 1/4" thick to match the wood, but I'll adjust the thickness to allow for some calibration error on the Z. A little thin works, but a little thick adds lots of cleanup. The X & Y still have to be calibrated fairly well to minimize rework.
ahaer wrote:A undocumented modification to a wood part is required to make this work. With the printrbot GT2 gear the large flange (17.75) mm would rub against the bottom. I had previously cut out this hole so that I could see the motor shaft shaft from the bottom. You may need to do the same. IMHO this is worthwhile thing to do in any case so that you can see what is going on.

The 17.75mm flange is larger than the pulley I had on hand which only measured 16mm. With the 17.75mm flange you should theoretically 1mm clearance between the flange and bottom wood piece, but as we have seen reality rarely follows theory. I can move the motor pulley up to allow for more clearance. The lower motor position is a carry over from the MXL design and not necessary here.

ahaer wrote:There is one problem with this modification as it currently stands: There is a significant reduction in y travel (30mm) when the belt support pieces hit the bearings. Note the amount of unused rod to the left of the bearings
...
The fix for this problem is to rotate the y-axis rod plate 180 degrees so that the tabs are in front and make new belt support tabs. In this configuration the plate AND the bed move forward enough that the bed doesn't have to be raised over the bearings. This means less wobble and less new parts required! Now that I've got things back together I'll work new x-belt supports

I believe it is obvious, but there is a typo, there is a reduction in the "X" travel. Extensive write-up, great pictures, we can overlook this one...
I missed the reduction of travel in the X axis altogether. Took a long look at the Y axis to make sure the bearings did not hit the end supports, but then completely neglected the X. :oops:
Great suggestion on turning the X base plate around. It looks like if you turn the base plate 180 degrees, keep the top plate orientation the same (it's not symmetric), and come up with new belt ends, the 608 bearings will sit just behind the top plate, the GT2 pulley flange will fall under the top plate, and the Y axis limit is 1.2mm from the back edge of the plate. It's tight, but certainly possible. Also, if you use a glass plate on top, it can overhang the bearings and belt with ease.

Ahaer, thank you again for the extensive feedback.
Anybody else with success / failure please let me know.
In the mean time I will get going on Revision A to correct all the above.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby ahaer » 2013-Dec-Fri-11-Dec

Jon Lawrence wrote:In the mean time I will get going on Revision A to correct all the above.


It's awesome having someone with has better skills/tools to actually implement changes - as well as the setting up the original. It always takes longer when I do it myself :D

BTW - what tools are you using to design with?
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Original PrintrBot Simple Beta Owner, upgraded to V2 with
- 360mm GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:215294 + thing:24061)
- 160mm GT2 belt-driven Y axis (thing:229854)
- 360mm x 160mm bed for GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:240601)
- 160mm Z axis (thing:215625)
- LED light ring and 40mm fan mount (thing:217224)
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby ahaer » 2013-Dec-Fri-11-Dec

Jon Lawrence wrote:If you install the gear with bearings to get the position on the shaft, remove the bearings, insert the pulley thru the Y-axis plate, and re-attach the Y-axis plate you should then be able to drop the bearings in from the top into position and insert the screw to anchor them. I used the same method on the MXL setup where the bearings sit inside the flanges, and I can install/remove the bearings after complete assembly.


With the larger flange of the PrintrBot supplied GT2 gear I was NOT able to remove the bearings after tightening down the gear. If you shorted the bearing support nipple so you only needed to tilt the bearing about 15 degrees I should be removable with the larger flanged gear. It only needs to be tall enough to center the bearing as it is clamped down with the top plate screws...
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Original PrintrBot Simple Beta Owner, upgraded to V2 with
- 360mm GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:215294 + thing:24061)
- 160mm GT2 belt-driven Y axis (thing:229854)
- 360mm x 160mm bed for GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:240601)
- 160mm Z axis (thing:215625)
- LED light ring and 40mm fan mount (thing:217224)
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby ahaer » 2013-Dec-Fri-11-Dec

BTW - the bearing caps for the X-axis mod seem plenty thick/strong too me.
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Original PrintrBot Simple Beta Owner, upgraded to V2 with
- 360mm GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:215294 + thing:24061)
- 160mm GT2 belt-driven Y axis (thing:229854)
- 360mm x 160mm bed for GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:240601)
- 160mm Z axis (thing:215625)
- LED light ring and 40mm fan mount (thing:217224)
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2013-Dec-Fri-12-Dec

ahaer wrote:
Jon Lawrence wrote:If you install the gear with bearings to get the position on the shaft, remove the bearings, insert the pulley thru the Y-axis plate, and re-attach the Y-axis plate you should then be able to drop the bearings in from the top into position and insert the screw to anchor them. I used the same method on the MXL setup where the bearings sit inside the flanges, and I can install/remove the bearings after complete assembly.


With the larger flange of the PrintrBot supplied GT2 gear I was NOT able to remove the bearings after tightening down the gear. If you shorted the bearing support nipple so you only needed to tilt the bearing about 15 degrees I should be removable with the larger flanged gear. It only needs to be tall enough to center the bearing as it is clamped down with the top plate screws...


My apologies, the brain is not working today. Completely forgot the bearing is supported by a printed post, and NOT the screws like MXL. Please disregard my previous comments.
I could shorten the pilot just long enough to locate the bearing, and add a corresponding pilot the the support bar to carry the belt tension. Since the bearing retainer screw is only threaded into the plastic, I don't want to rely on the screw for carrying any of the belt load.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2013-Dec-Fri-13-Dec

ahaer wrote:BTW - what tools are you using to design with?

I design in Solidworks, slice in Kisslicer, print with Repetier Host on a laptop in the basement (my wife won't tolerate it anywhere else in the house).
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby ahaer » 2013-Dec-Fri-13-Dec

Jon Lawrence wrote:
ahaer wrote:BTW - what tools are you using to design with?

I design in Solidworks, slice in Kisslicer, print with Repetier Host on a laptop in the basement (my wife won't tolerate it anywhere else in the house).


I wish Solidworks had a "maker" or light version of their program...
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Original PrintrBot Simple Beta Owner, upgraded to V2 with
- 360mm GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:215294 + thing:24061)
- 160mm GT2 belt-driven Y axis (thing:229854)
- 360mm x 160mm bed for GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:240601)
- 160mm Z axis (thing:215625)
- LED light ring and 40mm fan mount (thing:217224)
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2013-Dec-Fri-14-Dec

I hear you. Solidworks is fantastic, but the cost is outrageous for a legal license. Fortunately, I have it for my day job and get to play at night...
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2013-Dec-Mon-16-Dec

I updated the Motor plate and tie bar for the Y axis (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:194586). Shortened the pilots for the bearing mounts on the motor side and added pilots for the bearings on the tie bar to allow bearings to be removed with pulley in place.
I also added a notch in the motor plate to allow wrench access to the belt pulley. Hopefully a ball end allen wrench will get in there. Please let me know if this eliminates the need to cut the wood.

The X changes will take a little longer, and I will have to find some free time. I will post when they are done.

Thanks again for the feedback.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2013-Dec-Tue-16-Dec

OK, The next iteration of the X-GT2 belt is avaialable: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:194686
Thank you for helping debug the GT2 design. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby ahaer » 2013-Dec-Wed-08-Dec

Jon Lawrence wrote:OK, The next iteration of the X-GT2 belt is avaialable: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:194686
Thank you for helping debug the GT2 design. Any and all feedback is greatly appreciated.


This looks great. I like the way you used the carrier edge and notches to register the belt ends!

One question, Do you intended for the end stops to print as oriented in the STL's with or without support? I'm currently printing it as is with no support and got a pretty good result. The only big errors are the "bottoms" of the knubs
IMG_1947.JPG
printed as-is with no support

IMG_1948.JPG
Here you can see how the unsupported tab edges sagged


I think this will work once I grind away the saggy unsupported parts. I won't be able to test until I print the other side as I don't want to take apart thing until I can put it back together with new parts ;)

As the majority of centering force (front to back when installed) will be provided by the tie-wrap to the rod I think you could change the model so that the bottom edges (when printed as is) tapered up at 45 so support would not be needed. As I see it the main point of the tabs (to prevent the part from pivoting when there is tension on the belt) will still apply. I'm a big backer of avoiding support whenever possible

Also, I don't plan to reprint the motor/pulley part as it takes a while to print and takes a long while to disassemble and install...
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Original PrintrBot Simple Beta Owner, upgraded to V2 with
- 360mm GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:215294 + thing:24061)
- 160mm GT2 belt-driven Y axis (thing:229854)
- 360mm x 160mm bed for GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:240601)
- 160mm Z axis (thing:215625)
- LED light ring and 40mm fan mount (thing:217224)
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2013-Dec-Wed-09-Dec

ahaer wrote:One question, Do you intended for the end stops to print as oriented in the STL's with or without support?
...
As the majority of centering force (front to back when installed) will be provided by the tie-wrap to the rod I think you could change the model so that the bottom edges (when printed as is) tapered up at 45 so support would not be needed. As I see it the main point of the tabs (to prevent the part from pivoting when there is tension on the belt) will still apply.

They were intended to be printed as orientated in STL's, with supports. I happen to have good luck with supports however, I agree with your force analysis and have added a couple 45 degree chamfers to assist if you wish to print without supports. I have updated the files on Thingiverse ( http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:194686 )

ahaer wrote:Also, I don't plan to reprint the motor/pulley part as it takes a while to print and takes a long while to disassemble and install...


No need to reprint the motor/pulley part. I didn't change the height of the bearings, so the belt will line up with the support blocks with either version.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby ahaer » 2013-Dec-Wed-14-Dec

Excellent! I will print and install the new parts tonight!

Thanks again!
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Original PrintrBot Simple Beta Owner, upgraded to V2 with
- 360mm GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:215294 + thing:24061)
- 160mm GT2 belt-driven Y axis (thing:229854)
- 360mm x 160mm bed for GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:240601)
- 160mm Z axis (thing:215625)
- LED light ring and 40mm fan mount (thing:217224)
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby ahaer » 2013-Dec-Thu-08-Dec

Rev A is an improvement over the original but it still restricts the total x-axis movement to 86mm because the part projects into the bearing clearance slot
IMG_1953.JPG
RevA enstops installed as-is


My solution to this problem was to simply cut off the part so that it ends at the start of the slot opening. With the tie-wraps tightened the assembly is plenty solid.
IMG_1955.JPG
RevA endstops installed after cutting


One thing that I did run into was that the tie wrap head wound up taking up most of the space between the carrier and the bed. My solution to this was to widen out the tie-wrap clearance hole so that I could rotate the tie-wrap end down into the carrier plate so that it did stick up any further than the tie-wrap itself
IMG_1956.JPG
increase tie-wrap clearance hole to move tie-wrap end


Other installation notes
- install the bearing carrier so that the tabs face forward. Its a easier to do the new x-axis stop if you flip it so the endstop screw hole stays on the left rather than rotating it 180 degrees like I did in pics above
- install the bed in its normal position (ie so that the narrow gap between screw hole and edge is at the front). If you reverse the bed too the y-axis home position will be off the bed by a couple of mm
- drill new axis using same X coordinate as original hole and a y that works with clearance slot on the left side piece (basically how its shown on the PDF file)
- I used two tension blocks but only put screws in one of them. I just realized that the endstop itself has a belt holding groove too and will try making with only on tension block and screws later


I printed a quick part and everything work properly. Next up I'll look into speed settings...
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Original PrintrBot Simple Beta Owner, upgraded to V2 with
- 360mm GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:215294 + thing:24061)
- 160mm GT2 belt-driven Y axis (thing:229854)
- 360mm x 160mm bed for GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:240601)
- 160mm Z axis (thing:215625)
- LED light ring and 40mm fan mount (thing:217224)
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2013-Dec-Thu-09-Dec

Parts updated and Rev B uploaded. I should have caught the travel issue, my apologies to you and your X carriage that ended up under the saw...
Thanks for all your assistance ahaer!
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby ahaer » 2013-Dec-Sun-18-Dec

I've made a new thing based on your parts that increases X printer width to 185mm

see viewtopic.php?f=106&t=5914
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Original PrintrBot Simple Beta Owner, upgraded to V2 with
- 360mm GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:215294 + thing:24061)
- 160mm GT2 belt-driven Y axis (thing:229854)
- 360mm x 160mm bed for GT2 belt-driven X axis (thing:240601)
- 160mm Z axis (thing:215625)
- LED light ring and 40mm fan mount (thing:217224)
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Jan-Mon-10-Jan

Jon Lawrence wrote:I updated the Motor plate and tie bar for the Y axis (http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:194586). Shortened the pilots for the bearing mounts on the motor side and added pilots for the bearings on the tie bar to allow bearings to be removed with pulley in place.
I also added a notch in the motor plate to allow wrench access to the belt pulley. Hopefully a ball end allen wrench will get in there. Please let me know if this eliminates the need to cut the wood.


Quick update: On the new Simple-V2 version WITH string tension device, the slot in the Y axis plate is wider so there is better access to the pulley set screw.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby djsloanau » 2014-Jan-Mon-22-Jan

Ok folks, after seeing this post and the previous one, it has decided my purchase for the Printrbot Simple. I was tossing up between the simple and the Jr, but I don't like the layout of the Jr, I think the simple's structure is more sound, except for the x y fishing line. With the success you guys have had putting in GT2 belts, and extending the print volume, the Simple becomes a force to be reckoned with in the printer world.

Is there any reason why you have used the 608Z bearings rather than the slightly smaller 624ZZ?

Thanks for all the great designs and the detailed drawings and parts info. I can't wait to get started and I haven't even placed my order yet. I can get all the parts locally for buttons, between AUD$1.50 and AUD$5.20 each for the belt, drive gear and bearings.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby thawkins » 2014-Jan-Tue-04-Jan

djsloanau wrote:Ok folks, after seeing this post and the previous one, it has decided my purchase for the Printrbot Simple. I was tossing up between the simple and the Jr, but I don't like the layout of the Jr, I think the simple's structure is more sound, except for the x y fishing line. With the success you guys have had putting in GT2 belts, and extending the print volume, the Simple becomes a force to be reckoned with in the printer world.

Is there any reason why you have used the 608Z bearings rather than the slightly smaller 624ZZ?

Thanks for all the great designs and the detailed drawings and parts info. I can't wait to get started and I haven't even placed my order yet. I can get all the parts locally for buttons, between AUD$1.50 and AUD$5.20 each for the belt, drive gear and bearings.


608zz are available anywhere in the world, other less skateboardy bearings are either not available or take weeks of shipping time and messing around with customs.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Feb-Sat-23-Feb

Well, I don't know how to comment on thingiverse, so I'll comment here instead.

My Y-Axis fishing line broke after 2 weeks of printing.
I didn't want to replace the broken fishing line I had, as it was expensive and I would have a couple hundred feet of it. I used some string I had laying around the house to print each part on the Y axis, and they came out pretty good. I printed most at 40% infill, since I found that to be pretty strong for most applications. I went on ebay and picked up everything I needed for about 20 bucks shipped.

I have the Printrbot Simple 2014. I've come across a couple of problems:

I saw a comment on thingiverse. The front piece I printed should be the first version. There's no Rev in the name. I think if you shift the hole closest to the motor slightly up so the fan mount lines up, that would fix the problem.
You also need longer screws to get it through the fan, block, wood, and fan shroud. I would suggest perhaps tweaking the model a bit so the area the fan mounts on isn't so thick/bulky?

Fan holes do not align
Image

Image

2. Screw that goes into the motor mount are really hard to screw in. I think it would be good to either use shorter screws, or enlarge the holes on the motor mount. I was screwing them in, and about halfway, the right side broke off. It may vary between your infill settings and material, but for those with somewhat brittle plastic, i think it would be good to enlarge the holes just a tiny bit. Until I get some better plastic or find some other solution, I'm not sure how to solve this. Do you guys know a good infill percentage for this piece?

Broken Motor Mount
Image

Image

Left and right parts broke. The left one came off pretty clean, leaving the motor plate smooth. The right one broke midway.
Image

Image

So if you've come across these problems, and you cut off the stock Y axis rubber tube because you couldn't pry it off, and you don't have another 3D printer to print your stuff, I've done a couple things to make it temporarily functional:
1. Remove the bearings and the bearing tie bar. Remember to use blue loctite on the pulley set screws.
2. Wrap the belt around the front so it goes under the motor. You may need to unscrew the front block, move the belt inward nice and tight, and screw it in. You don't need the little filament piece here.
3. Tighten the back belt tension block until the belt no longer slips.
4. Slightly screw in two screws diagonally on the fan. There should be enough friction to keep the fan in place. It's not really tight, but the fan shouldn't really fall out as it doesn't go left/right.
5. For the fan shroud, look in your extra screws that came with the printrbot. Find two of the smallest ones, and screw them in from the fan shroud to the wood (towards the fan). Doesn't really matter which holes, just make sure they're positioned diagonally. Tape can help if you have decent tape.
I'm printing a test pyramid now with this temporary fix and it's doing pretty good.
Here's how the setup looks when you're done:
Image
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby EddB » 2014-Feb-Sun-02-Feb

There must have been a major design change since the 10/26/2013 model and the 2014. I am using both his x and y upgrades, I am using his gt2 versions and don't have those problems. For the bearing mounts, as on most screw in connectors, I always tap them with the actual screw that will be used before putting them on. If they are too tight, then I will drill them out to the proper size. That way if there is any problems with the fit or the plastic, I know before going on with the build.
A hint for getting the rubber spindles off your motors without destroying them, use a wide tipped flat screwdriver between the motor and the spindle. Work your way around doing this causes stress fractures in the adhesive and it will eventually pop right off (especially super glues, CA does not bend with the rubber, it will pop right off.)
I know it's too late to help with yours. Just a hint for others that want to try it. When doing upgrades, as a general rule I don't alter the original equipment in any way that it can't be returned to original condition.
1393139087827.jpg
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Feb-Sun-03-Feb

I had the same hole alignment issue on my 2014 simple. I just lined it up with the fan mount and skipped the one that didn't line up. No big deal. As for the Y motor mount, the breaking off issue has more to do with your print settings and quality. 40% infill is plenty, but try rectilinear instead of that honey comb. It also didn't look like your layers are sticking together very well. It should not have broken off clean like that. If you need a new Y motor mount, I can print one and send it to you. Just msg me your address.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Feb-Sun-05-Feb

Thanks for the offer evanalmighty, but I was able to print out what I needed :).

Well, mini update. Pics will come later.

Using my makeshift belt Y thing, I printed out another motor piece at 99% infill (100% wouldn't slice for some reason). I didn't bother checking how the screw would fit, but the screw went in quite nicely during installation. I don't know what happened with the first one. I didn't have to press even 1/2 has hard as my first installation piece when screwing in the screws. Everything installed nicely :S. Same 200 micron print and all, just different infill.

Doing a bit of calibration and calibration printing before I try out the new revision of the fan mount. EddB, what screws are you using to attach the fan all the way to the fan shroud?

Also, I followed this instructables which isn't too bad of a guide: http://www.instructables.com/id/Printrb ... n-Upgrade/

How tight should the belt be? I have it so it has around half a cm of movement (when I push it lightly downwards) when the pulley system is in the middle.

Also, I found that the closer my belt got to the end(extruder end) the belt would move slightly towards the inside, and make a slight "struggling" noise that wouldn't appear when it was on the farther side (towards the rear).
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Sun-14-Feb

EddB wrote:There must have been a major design change since the 10/26/2013 model and the 2014.

Upon reviewing the .dxf files online, it appears that around Jan 2014 they implemented the Y plate with the built in fan hole pattern (big chunky front end). Several other things moved with this change. It appears that the hole pattern is shifted down about 4mm.

evanalmighty or Some Printr Noob, can you confirm if the front section of belt is perfectly horizontal or sloping downhill about 4mm? If it is headed downhill, I will rework the front mount to get the belt horizontal and therefore give you a more linear system. Otherwise the recently uploaded BeltEndBlockGT2Front-Fan-B.STL should get a bolt hole pattern that lines up.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Feb-Sun-16-Feb

I'll be home later today and snap some pics for you. Thanks.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Feb-Sun-20-Feb

Right side looks good, left side looks like it slopes. Don't mind the broken bearing block; i need to reprint another one. I think this block provides strength for the motor block, as my 100% infill one just snapped.

Slopes down on the left
Image

Broken motor mount. I don't know whether to blame the printer settings or filament. I think its the latter as the starter filament didn't have these problems. The matterhackers filament seems to be brittler. I'm trying 200c to try to get better stickiness and flow.
Image

Second revision of the front block warped on me, so no screws on the right side of the front block. I think you should just make a ellipse type of shape as it would be a lot more adjustable. Look at the fan mount in the back of this case for a kind of idea I'm talking about.
Image
This allows for screw adjustability and it doesn't require anything complex
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Sun-21-Feb

Some Printr Noob wrote:Right side looks good, left side looks like it slopes.


I was afraid of that. I'll rework it soon, and see if I can't "sexy" it up a bit. I would like to clean up the documentation because we have too many versions of the Y plate to deal with in one clean assembly. Only takes time, so be patient with me.

Some Printr Noob wrote:Don't mind the broken bearing block; i need to reprint another one. I think this block provides strength for the motor block, as my 100% infill one just snapped.


I would guess you have a bit too much belt tension if you were able to split the bearing tie bar. Either that or as you mentioned, very brittle material.

The other issues look like a layer adhesion problem. I print all my parts with PLA, 3 outer loops, and 15%-25% infill only. Never any more than that. 100% infill is overkill assuming the layers are bonding well and decent material.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Feb-Sun-21-Feb

This is just to confirm what noob is getting. I personally don't think it's that big of a deal. Also ignore my fiesta themed Y belt upgrade parts. Not sure how I ended up with red green and white parts.

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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby EddB » 2014-Feb-Sun-22-Feb

evanalmighty wrote:This is just to confirm what noob is getting. I personally don't think it's that big of a deal. Also ignore my fiesta themed Y belt upgrade parts. Not sure how I ended up with red green and white parts.

Image


Looks like you had the same problem with the stock fan spacer (not fan mount, wood spacer after that) slamming into you xl volume upgrade as I did. I printed out a new fan spacer that was 3/4 as thick and about 4mm shorter. It comes right up to it at 100mm, but doesn't touch it.

As for the screws (someone asked further back) I think they were an old sack of 4-40x1 1/4". At least that is what I think they where.. Been a while.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Feb-Sun-22-Feb

I had to cut the bearing tie bar because it wouldn't quite fit onto the newly printed motor piece.

I am having problems where the belt slides toward the end of the pulley, and causes the whole y axis to jam. How do I fix this?
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby plexus » 2014-Feb-Sun-23-Feb

Some Printr Noob wrote:I had to cut the bearing tie bar because it wouldn't quite fit onto the newly printed motor piece.

I am having problems where the belt slides toward the end of the pulley, and causes the whole y axis to jam. How do I fix this?


The belt has to be parallel to the Y axis vertical plate (the "arm"). The pulley has to be adjusted on the motor shaft so that the belt stays away from the flanges. If the belt is not parallel it will slide more than the width of the pulley flange and hit it. You have to get the belt parallel and straight and aligned in a straight line with the bearings and pulley.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Mon-09-Feb

I have put together a cleaner version for models after Jan. 15, 2014 where the fan mount is included in the Y frame.

If you try it out, please let me know how it goes. If successful, I will add to Thingiverse.

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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Feb-Mon-10-Feb

Thanks Jon. I'll print one up today.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby pantseatflyer » 2014-Feb-Mon-15-Feb

Cool! I will print as well!!

BTW. What is the best place to purchase the belt and bearings for the mod?
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Feb-Mon-16-Feb

I think I bought everything on eBay. Everything came out under $20 and I still have a bunch of spare bearings and belts. Could have been even cheaper with overseas sellers but I didn't want to wait.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Mon-16-Feb

pantseatflyer wrote:BTW. What is the best place to purchase the belt and bearings for the mod?

I have bought belts and gears from both Printrbot and Makerfarm. Decent prices, and I didn't want to wait for the slow boat from China.

http://printrbot.com/shop/gt2-kit/
http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/gt2-gear.html
http://www.makerfarm.com/index.php/1-foot-gt2-belt.html

Bearings however, came on the slow boat ebay style. 608 skate bearings are extremely common so you shouldn't have any trouble finding some locally or abroad.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Feb-Mon-16-Feb

I got my belt and bearings and pulleys cheap on ebay.

I picked up belt and pulley from the seller sidewinderinc. 2 feet of belt is enough for both x and y.
I got my bearings from the seller irvineman.

They're really inexpensive. It's like 4 bucks per pilley, and 3 bucks for a foot or two of belt.

All us sellers and the stuff that comes works pretty well.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Feb-Tue-03-Feb

Well, since noone responded with their tests, I printed one out at 200 microns, 40% infill.

This thing is an awesome piece. Fit perfectly. So much less bulk! The fan is mounted just like it normally does in its stock configuration. No need for any extra screws. The screws fit as they're supposed to, and the belt looks much more level.

Here, you can see the belt is nice and straight throughout the drive. Bulky pieces are sitting on the printbed.
Image

Close up:
Image

If you have the old versions, you will need to cut off a little bit of belt. ~1.5cm or more.
Image

I did some quick Y movement tests and so far it looks good. I'll run a print and see if any problems occur.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Tue-08-Feb

Some Printr Noob wrote:Well, since noone responded with their tests, I printed one out at 200 microns, 40% infill.


Don't be too hard on people. It usually takes me a minimum of a day to print a new part, a second day to install, then even a third to test. To be able to print, assemble, photograph, and report all in one afternoon is quite a feat.

Some Printr Noob wrote:The fan is mounted just like it normally does in its stock configuration. No need for any extra screws. The screws fit as they're supposed to, and the belt looks much more level.


In that case, I will assume it is a success and move forward with publishing. Thanks for the feedback.

Some Printr Noob wrote:I did some quick Y movement tests and so far it looks good. I'll run a print and see if any problems occur.


Please let me know if there is any interference between the new part and the 608 bearing. It should clear nicely, but confirmation is always good.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Feb-Tue-10-Feb

Sorry I did print the part last night but I was already in a middle of making a hot bed so I wanted to print some abs before making the switch. The piece looks like it'll fit perfectly from what I can tell.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Feb-Tue-11-Feb

I printed two lego pieces, positioned to get as much Y-axis movement as possible.

I'm happy to report that the new front belt block seems to work flawlessly. I don't get any belt jamming and the bearings don't collide with anything.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby EddB » 2014-Feb-Tue-17-Feb

In case you want to keep your belts long for future upgrades, I found a little trick to use on the tension block. Just double over the belt and then slide a piece of tight fitting shrink tubing over it. With belt in as close as possible to the locked in position and no tension on the tension block, shrink the tubing (not too much heat as you might damage the belt!)
Been running it for about a week and the belt is still taught! I still have a lot of belt for a future upgrade.
1393367433505.jpg
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby pantseatflyer » 2014-Feb-Wed-10-Feb

Purchased all materials for X and Y upgrade. Printing parts this evening.

What is best to install first X or Y separately to tweak individually or install at same time?
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Feb-Wed-10-Feb

pantseatflyer wrote:What is best to install first X or Y separately to tweak individually or install at same time?


I installed the Y first only because that is what I designed first. :D
There is really no required install order as long as you can get the parts printed on our current volume. The X install requires a complete dis-assembly of the machine to replace the motor plate, kinda a PITA, but well worth the effort.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Feb-Wed-13-Feb

Success
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Delranon » 2014-Feb-Wed-13-Feb

Can also confirm - works perfectly

20140226_185153.jpg



20140226_193144.jpg




Thank you very much
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby pantseatflyer » 2014-Feb-Fri-01-Feb

One more piece to print...

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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Sat-04-Mar

I got parts to upgrade the X axis to the belt as well!

You may have to grind down some of the wood as a screw on the end stop will scrape against the plate.
Image
Image
Image

The motor piece is a very, very tight fit. My Printrbot Simple was pretty well calibrated before this mod, and I still had some fitting issues. The inner motor circle didn't quite line up, so I took a dremel and shaved off the inside as well. After some fiddling and reassembly, I got it in.
Image
Image

I'm stuck on how to put the X belt end and X belt end mirror onto the build plate. I could force it onto there, but it would likely snap a lot of the plastic. Is there any tricks/tips, or is it just a one piece "slip" on?
Image
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby thawkins » 2014-Mar-Sat-09-Mar

You have the xcarriage bed plate upside down, the belt left and right mounts go on the other side.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Mar-Sat-10-Mar

If I remember correctly you have to flip the bed. Even then you'll have some clearance issue with the end switch.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Sat-10-Mar

Also, before you complete the assembly of the bottom plate, thread the belt around the motor pulley. It's a pain to do after everything is assembled.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Sat-15-Mar

Wait, I technically did flip the bed...

The area where the locknuts were supposed to go now face upward, and the large endstop cutout is still on the left side.

:S I was just wondering how to put on the belt ends.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Mar-Sat-16-Mar

Not that kind of flip. Flip as in keep the lock nuts on the bottom side still, but turn the plate 180 so that the 2 mounts where the string and string tensioner go are now away from the printer instead of being up against the X motor.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Sat-17-Mar

The only proble I see with that is the plate will not fit and scrape against the endstop's screw. I'll have to find another way to mount it or do some dremmel work so that the endstop cutout extends all the way across the bed.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Sat-18-Mar

Ok, I'm really confused now :/.

I'm following pictures here:
https://thingiverse-production.s3.amazo ... T2revB.PDF

Tabs are supposed to face out, so there can be only two orientations.

And the only way I can see to have the plate in that orientation is to flip the plate over, and have the locknut engraved cuts on top. This fits nicely, and doesn't require that much modding of the plate. A simple hole drilled and a bit of grinding.
Image

But everyone here is telling me to just take the plate and rotate it 180 degrees. This will require grinding as it doesn't fit in its current state. It just doesn't make sense to orient the bed this way.
Image

And of course, I still have the same problem of how to put the pieces on the end. Do I just force them on?
Image
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby EddB » 2014-Mar-Sat-21-Mar

Some Printr Noob wrote:The only proble I see with that is the plate will not fit and scrape against the endstop's screw. I'll have to find another way to mount it or do some dremmel work so that the endstop cutout extends all the way across the bed.


I had the same problems. No matter what I did, the screw tops where in the way. Ended up just glueing the endstop in place with a hot glue gun and removing the screws entirely
Belt end caps, yes you do have to force them on, at an angle. Once on, the tension pretty much holds them very secure. Basically start it sidewayson edge and try to put it in the bed groove and in the bar end at the same time.
ED.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Mar-Sat-22-Mar

I also removed the 2 M2 bolts that held down the X end switch and super glued it down to the wood.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby thawkins » 2014-Mar-Sun-00-Mar

Some Printr Noob wrote:Ok, I'm really confused now :/.

I'm following pictures here:
https://thingiverse-production.s3.amazo ... T2revB.PDF

Tabs are supposed to face out, so there can be only two orientations.

And the only way I can see to have the plate in that orientation is to flip the plate over, and have the locknut engraved cuts on top. This fits nicely, and doesn't require that much modding of the plate. A simple hole drilled and a bit of grinding.
Image

But everyone here is telling me to just take the plate and rotate it 180 degrees. This will require grinding as it doesn't fit in its current state. It just doesn't make sense to orient the bed this way.

And of course, I still have the same problem of how to put the pieces on the end. Do I just force them on?
Image


Ok your plate has two long sides, one is straight the other has a cutout in it.

The long cutout on the edge of wood plate is supposed to be at the top, its the recess that the old sandpaper drum and cord was running inside of. You still have it flipped by 180 degrees. The cutout is supposed to be at the top, not the bottom. Then your end pieces fit over the big holes at the top, you are trying to fit them onto the wrong side of the plate.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby EddB » 2014-Mar-Sun-01-Mar

thawkins wrote:Ok your plate has two long sides, one is straight the other has a cutout in it.

The long cutout on the edge of wood plate is supposed to be at the top, its the recess that the old sandpaper drum and cord was running inside of. You still have it flipped by 180 degrees. The cutout is supposed to be at the top, not the bottom. Then your end pieces fit over the big holes at the top, you are trying to fit them onto the wrong side of the plate.


For this upgrade using the gt2 upgrade the plate in the picture is correct except the captive nuts go under. This upgrade requires the side that USED to be the string edge to be facing out. It's the only way the end piece will lock on and allow full range of motion. The bearings are too large to have the string edge facing in.
1393741538247.jpg

Look under the bed. The edge that used to be the string and against the sandpaper, must be facing out.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Sun-07-Mar

Well, I somewhat completed the X axis today. Quite tiring. I would suggest doing a little bit over 2-3 days.

The belt wouldn't stay in the belt tensioner ends for some reason. This really pissed me off and I ended up super glue-ing them. Unfortunately one side is off/slanded and I might have to buy more belt and print more pieces.

Also, I had a problem of the X axis being limited due to the x belt ends hitting onto the main carriage of the printrbot itself. I had to grind some material off. Jon, you may want to look into making this area a bit shorter.
Image
Image

Second problem I believe is related to the 2014 simple or the one with the side fan mount. The top of the x belt end will hit both the fan and the wooden area around the fan. Obviously, only one side really needs to be fixed, but I suppose you could mirror it so it's nice and symmetrical.
Image

It took quite a long time, but my Simple is back up and running.
Image
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Mar-Sun-11-Mar

I think your calibration was a little bit off when you printed these parts. Everything seems to point towards your parts coming out too big. I also have the 2014 but everything cleared fine except for the X stop.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Sun-14-Mar

evanalmighty wrote:I think your calibration was a little bit off when you printed these parts. Everything seems to point towards your parts coming out too big. I also have the 2014 but everything cleared fine except for the X stop.


Interesting. I had my Simple pretty well calibrated. Perhaps I'll try printing the pieces again.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby pantseatflyer » 2014-Mar-Mon-00-Mar

After I flashed my card to fix some stepper motor issues, I thought I had reentered all specs successfully. Well that was until I printed out the last piece of my Y GT2 mod.

The uncalibrated piece is on the right.

[img]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/03/emuba7an.jpg[/img]

Uncalibrated piece is flimsy as well.
[img]http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/03/03/udy5egeh.jpg[/img]

You have to check each axis using tape or pencil marks using RetireeJay's calibration. When I calculated mine, I was waaaay off.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Mar-Mon-11-Mar

I initially calibrated mine with pencil marks and digital calipers. Last night before I started printing pieces for this mod I used a dial indicator and found I was dead on. Extruder motor I still used calipers.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Tue-03-Mar

For my calibration, I usually do a dot on the bed's masking tape, move the head 50mm or so, and then make another dot where the printhead is. I then calculate the number of steps for that axis.

Then I print out the 25mm calibration steps object on thingiverse, and use my digital calipers to measure each axis. I then calculate and enter the new values into the printer.

I did a 10 hour print just fine with the X and Y belt mods. Thanks for all your work Jon.

I think my delrin nut that controls the whole Z movement and y assembly is wearing. Theres a little bit of slop in the nut, and I'm starting to get Z ribbing :S.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Mar-Tue-12-Mar

What sliver settings did you use to print these pieces and how long did they take by chance?
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Tue-12-Mar

I did mine at 200 microns, with 100% infill on the motor blocks and 40% elsewhere. My layer adhesion is spotty and my filament is brittle.

Most parts took an hour or so.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Mar-Tue-14-Mar

Man either I'm doing something wrong or my simple speed wise sucks.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Tue-14-Mar

dmaxx67 wrote:What sliver settings did you use to print these pieces and how long did they take by chance?

I print at 0.40mm nozzle, 0.25mm layer height, 20% infill, 3 loops on perimeters, and 15mm/sec for most all my parts. The whole set would take 6 to 8 hours for each axis upgrade, but I print slower than most.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Mar-Tue-22-Mar

Jon could you screenshot a few of your slicer setting pages for me and either me or post them up. I have had a few pieces that did not adhere together very well. I think my terrible spool holder is causing to much drag y chassis when its needs to pull causing my nozzle not to lay correctly on certain layers.

Also I am really torn between your later y mod with carriage and all and kungfuroy version with bowden. I really want to go bowden but i have direct drive and all the direct drive bowden setups are made for stock chassis. Any suggestions on which way to go or maybe I have missed something in all my searching...if i havent missed saomething maybe a later y mod with bowden setup from you...
Anyways any help appreciated
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Tue-23-Mar

I use this and it works great.
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:118559
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Wed-12-Mar

dmaxx67 wrote:Jon could you screenshot a few of your slicer setting pages for me and either me or post them up. I have had a few pieces that did not adhere together very well.

I use Kisslicer for all my slicing needs. If you are having layer adhesion issues, they are specific to your filament and your machine. Use caution when trying to copy settings. The displayed temperatures can be inaccurate so if my machine prints at 200C another machine may print the exact same material at 180C or 220C. I'm sorry, but my settings will be of no real use for your machine or material.

dmaxx67 wrote:I think my terrible spool holder is causing to much drag y chassis when its needs to pull causing my nozzle not to lay correctly on certain layers.

This can be a real problem and I have had the same issue if the filament snags. The extruder actually pulled the machine completely across the table. Now I hang my spools from the ceiling over the printer on holders using 608 bearings and a 5/16" all thread. Then I have a rag secured to the ceiling hanging over the reel to provide some resistance so the spool does not unwind itself. Also keeps the dust and debris off. Not the prettiest of setups, but very effective. The filament rolls off very easy.

dmaxx67 wrote:Also I am really torn between your later y mod with carriage and all and kungfuroy version with bowden. I really want to go bowden but i have direct drive and all the direct drive bowden setups are made for stock chassis. Any suggestions on which way to go or maybe I have missed something in all my searching...if i havent missed saomething maybe a later y mod with bowden setup from you...
Anyways any help appreciated

If there is one specific setup you are interested in let me know and I could look at modifying my latest Y mod end to fit.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Skrotus » 2014-Mar-Wed-19-Mar

I can't get the folded belt through the belt tensioners, everything else fits so I don't think it's my calibiration settings. Any ideas what I might be doing wrong?
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Wed-19-Mar

Skrotus wrote:I can't get the folded belt through the belt tensioners, everything else fits so I don't think it's my calibiration settings. Any ideas what I might be doing wrong?

I wouldn't sweat it too much. Depending on how they are printed it my be a 1st layer bulging into the cavity, or bridging hanging down a hair, or a belt that is a little thicker than mine. The overall belt thickness is not a controlled dimension, so there are variations depending on manufacturer. In any case I would simply take a small file, razor blade, or other means and just clean up the slot until the folded & interlaced belt pushes thru. Shouldn't take too much.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Mar-Wed-19-Mar

I just started on a fresh roll of Sainsmart filament so i guess i need to play with temp settings like you said. I did measure thickness and type average in Slic3r. Also checked extruder calibration.

I would like your later y mod with this bowden hot end(thing:217094). If at all possible and not a hassle maybe the motor plate from your first GT2 y axis mod with the later y mod end pieces...I'm not sure my printer can print that beautiful carriage form your late y mod with precision quite yet.
And then maybe a Paypal donation your way if you could incorporate a mount for my new inductive switch(http://www.ebay.com/itm/350900159799?ss ... 1439.l2649).

Cooking dinner for kids and wife so Ill post pics soon of my new aluminum bed and inductive switch.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Wed-20-Mar

dmaxx67 wrote:I would like your later y mod with this bowden hot end(thing:217094).

Done. Just use the two existing wood pieces from your DDE and mount the bowden thing on them.
The Y axis end was designed to hold the stock bottom and vertical mounting parts from the stock DDE, at least the pre-2014 model "stock" parts. I haven't checked compatibility with the 2014 simple yet.

dmaxx67 wrote:If at all possible and not a hassle maybe the motor plate from your first GT2 y axis mod with the later y mod end pieces...

It would be a bit of a re-design to put those two together. The rod spacing is the same, so in theory you would just need points to anchor the belt ends. I'll see if I can look at it over the weekend.

dmaxx67 wrote:And then maybe a Paypal donation your way if you could incorporate a mount for my new inductive switch(http://www.ebay.com/itm/350900159799?ss ... 1439.l2649).

Looks like a standard 12mm prox switch with a 4mm sensing distance. Let's see if I get inspired...maybe if you have a spare RAMPS setup laying around and would like to trade for some design work. :D I've been wanting to explore other control board options...
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Mar-Sat-17-Mar

Jon i am going to use KissSlicer now with Pronterface. I've had enough of slicer and Repetier Host. Would you be able to send me your kisslicer settings? Also the guys who watch this thread are ya able to print from computer or do you have to use sd card. Cause mine always fails within a minute or so of printing from computer but if i run sd card no problems.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby evanalmighty » 2014-Mar-Sat-19-Mar

Does it do that with all prints or just these parts?
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Mar-Sat-20-Mar

All prints since the day i got it.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby EddB » 2014-Mar-Sat-20-Mar

dmaxx67 wrote:Jon i am going to use KissSlicer now with Pronterface. I've had enough of slicer and Repetier Host. Would you be able to send me your kisslicer settings? Also the guys who watch this thread are ya able to print from computer or do you have to use sd card. Cause mine always fails within a minute or so of printing from computer but if i run sd card no problems.


Sounds like you might have a loose usb cable/connection, or may e even your communication settings are wrong. Might want to start a new message in troubleshooting and see if we can track it down. (others wont be able to help if posted under this heading)
Ed
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Mon-07-Mar

Jon Lawrence wrote:
dmaxx67 wrote:If at all possible and not a hassle maybe the motor plate from your first GT2 y axis mod with the later y mod end pieces...

It would be a bit of a re-design to put those two together. The rod spacing is the same, so in theory you would just need points to anchor the belt ends. I'll see if I can look at it over the weekend.

It can be done, but I would not recommend it. The ends would need to be redesigned to anchor the belt, and I find myself without any free time lately, so my apologies but I cannot help with merging those two designs at this time.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Mar-Mon-09-Mar

Appreciate you looking into it. I am going to build your x upgrade and then probably just go ahead with your y upgrade.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby jwiede » 2014-Mar-Mon-13-Mar

I've got the Y-axis mod installed as from Thingiverse, sole exception is that I'm using EvanAlmighty's "lightning-bolt-shaped" anchor at the head-end, because my Simple2014 has fan and vent shroud in the way otherwise. It's been working fine since install, I'll put up some pictures here in a bit.

Meanwhile, I'm getting ready to do the X-axis mod, and keeping my eyes open for improvements over the "stock" Thingiverse version that might be needed for Simple2014 differences from prior Simple units. I'm not seeing any so far, but need to read the thread more carefully. I've already got the motor plate printed, along with the bearing caps, just waiting on the anchors until certain there weren't changes needed to work with Simple2014.

Jon & Evan, thanks again so much! I just "trust" the drive system so much more using toothed belts and gears versus line and sandpaper pulleys. I'm quite glad to see Printrbot has decided to go with GT2 belt drive by default for the "new" (metal) Simple as well -- shame they didn't have that realization before Simple2014 design was finalized. OTOH, the mods didn't require that much work, and it did "personalize" my printer a bit, so... (shrug).
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Sun-09-Mar

Little bit of an update.

The white plastic I was using before had crappy layer adhesion. I got some new plastic and this stuff works much, much better. Just redid my X axis because it was a crippling sight due to a broken belt end.

Before:
Image

After:
Image

Problems that I have occured when installing new parts:
- No picture, but I'll try to explain it. Motor mounting piece fit to the plywood around it just fine, but the motor mounting area is very finnicky. I suggest that you kind of create a chamfer-ed or beveled edge on the side of semicircle that touches the motor. My piece wouldn't really fit, as the hole was a hair bit too small and the motor's circle around the shaft seems to be so very slightly angled.

- Belt End still colliding with the fan area.
Image

Image

I can't use around the first centimeter height around the X=100 Y=100 corner. It bumps the fan or the wooden part with the fan. Perhaps you could extend the belt end outwards a little bit or something?

Gonna do the Y axis now, as parts are cracking due to the disappointing quality of my white filament. I would like to try the no-sag Y axis mod, but I'll wait for an update to solve the lack of a fan mount.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby EddB » 2014-Mar-Sun-14-Mar

Some Printr Noob wrote:Little bit of an update.


Gonna do the Y axis now, as parts are cracking due to the disappointing quality of my white filament. I would like to try the no-sag Y axis mod, but I'll wait for an update to solve the lack of a fan mount.


Where your fan is hitting the end piece? You see the one you did in white is completely flat and in line with the bed. This new filament has a little too much play/movement. Your belt is lifting the edge piece up. You have too thin of extruded filament.
The end pieces are draw with the exact 5.8mm bed clearance. They should not wobble or bow up when placed on the board. A couple things you can do to correct this. Take a piece of cardboard or maybe even flattened filament and shim between the board and the end arm. That should bring the arm down and prevent it from hitting the fan.
If you want it to print correctly. You need to measure your filament diameter in several places and enter the average dimeter into slic3r print settings. Right below that is the extrusion multiplier. If it is set to 0.9, put it up to 1.0. If it is already there, then your filament diameter is off. (if your filament is 1.75, donvt enter a higher number, this will make the extruded filament thinner, not fatter)
You are having a loose fitting piece becauae you have a light filament extrusion. You had it set right or slightly high with the white, now it is to thin. When the arms are printed correctly it will be hard to put them on and there won't be any play in the fit.
I did exactly the same with one of my prints. I shimmed it and used it that way for a few weeks till I figured the filament diameter out. Then I had a real tight fitting piece. It could be worse... If you make it too fat, it wouldn't fit the wood at all!
Hope that helps!
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Complete printable 1405 Simple https://www.youmagine.com/designs/compl ... s-edition/ or thing:425164

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Octoprint + Raspberry Pi Wireless Printer Web Server w/ RasPiCam live video
Printrbot XL volume / tower upgrade GT2 X Timing Belts (thing:194686) GT2 Y Timing Belt Mod (thing:194586)
Custom 320 x 230mm aluminum bed frame w/ 3 x 8mm rods
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Sun-17-Mar

EddB wrote:
Some Printr Noob wrote:Little bit of an update.


Gonna do the Y axis now, as parts are cracking due to the disappointing quality of my white filament. I would like to try the no-sag Y axis mod, but I'll wait for an update to solve the lack of a fan mount.


Where your fan is hitting the end piece? You see the one you did in white is completely flat and in line with the bed. This new filament has a little too much play/movement. Your belt is lifting the edge piece up. You have too thin of extruded filament.
The end pieces are draw with the exact 5.8mm bed clearance. They should not wobble or bow up when placed on the board. A couple things you can do to correct this. Take a piece of cardboard or maybe even flattened filament and shim between the board and the end arm. That should bring the arm down and prevent it from hitting the fan.
If you want it to print correctly. You need to measure your filament diameter in several places and enter the average dimeter into slic3r print settings. Right below that is the extrusion multiplier. If it is set to 0.9, put it up to 1.0. If it is already there, then your filament diameter is off. (if your filament is 1.75, donvt enter a higher number, this will make the extruded filament thinner, not fatter)
You are having a loose fitting piece becauae you have a light filament extrusion. You had it set right or slightly high with the white, now it is to thin. When the arms are printed correctly it will be hard to put them on and there won't be any play in the fit.
I did exactly the same with one of my prints. I shimmed it and used it that way for a few weeks till I figured the filament diameter out. Then I had a real tight fitting piece. It could be worse... If you make it too fat, it wouldn't fit the wood at all!
Hope that helps!


That did help a lot. I will try doing some recalibration and filament measurements. I still don't see how the belt end will clear the fan even if I push it all the way down though...

My white filament did also hit the fan as well.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Mar-Sun-22-Mar

I have tried to print your bed pieces for days with no success. In the one picture you can see it shifted. Is this belt slippage, slicer error, motor current to low? I did notice that before this happened the y axis went all the way opposite of piece and came back and started again.

First pic, what do I need to do for better corners. Running no more than 20mm speed. The opposite side just like it looks beautiful.
Any help would be aprrecuated. I really any to install this upgrade but it's killing me lol.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Some Printr Noob » 2014-Mar-Mon-01-Mar

dmaxx67 wrote:I have tried to print your bed pieces for days with no success. In the one picture you can see it shifted. Is this belt slippage, slicer error, motor current to low? I did notice that before this happened the y axis went all the way opposite of piece and came back and started again.

First pic, what do I need to do for better corners. Running no more than 20mm speed. The opposite side just like it looks beautiful.
Any help would be aprrecuated. I really any to install this upgrade but it's killing me lol.


Looks like you need to tighten your strings, if you're using the stock simple.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby jwiede » 2014-Mar-Mon-04-Mar

I'm running into a slightly different issue installing the GT2 X mod into my Simple2014: After rotating the bottom bed carriage piece 180deg (so the "open tabs" where the line used to go are in front), the part of the bed carriage at the top is now rubbing against the motor's drive pin (and that's as-is without pulley installed yet). I'm just doing a dry-fit run of stuff -- figured I can try setting motor back slightly during the pulley mounting, etc. or just shave down the top of the bed carriage to make some clearance when I do the actual assembly.

Anyone else run into the problem of the flipped bed carriage plate (the one the rods zip-tie into) rubbing against the motor drive rod? If so, how did you fix?
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Printrbot Simple (2014) + Alum. bed, born Feb. 2014 + XL/Tower Upgrade w/ XL Alum bed
+ Jon Lawrence's X & Y GT2 belt mods (things: 194586 & 194686)
+ XB360-supply-powered 6"x4" MakerFarm bed heater, with relay between it and Printrboard
+ Jon Lawrence's 300mm no-sag Y mod (thing: 242185)
+ Bed auto-leveling via PB sensor + 3DP Aftermarket StepperDampers on XYZ
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Mon-09-Mar

I have had some requests from people having difficulty getting good prints on their string drive. In response I have uploaded a 2014 version to Shapeways. Shapeways calculates cost on a volume basis. In order to bring the pricing more inline, I hollowed out the parts. There should be no loss of strength since their White Strong & Flexible material is stronger than most PLA prints.

I hope this helps those struggling to get good prints.

Below are the links:
http://shpws.me/rbxt
http://shpws.me/rbxE
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby dmaxx67 » 2014-Mar-Mon-13-Mar

alright i replaced both strings with 65 lb fish line. Tightened the hell out of them and am building the pieces again. Hoping for the fifteenth try is the charm.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby jwiede » 2014-Mar-Mon-14-Mar

Jon, is it "normal" for the back edge of the bed carriage closest to the motor (carriage is the one that gets rotated 180deg so the "open tabs" are at the front of the printer post-mod) to rub against the drive shaft of the motor, at least in a 2014 Simple? If so, what's the recommended fix?

x_shaft_rub2t.jpg
x_shaft_rub2t.jpg (42.04 KiB) Viewed 3371 times

x_shaft_rub1t.jpg
x_shaft_rub1t.jpg (39.84 KiB) Viewed 3371 times
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John W.
Printrbot Simple (2014) + Alum. bed, born Feb. 2014 + XL/Tower Upgrade w/ XL Alum bed
+ Jon Lawrence's X & Y GT2 belt mods (things: 194586 & 194686)
+ XB360-supply-powered 6"x4" MakerFarm bed heater, with relay between it and Printrboard
+ Jon Lawrence's 300mm no-sag Y mod (thing: 242185)
+ Bed auto-leveling via PB sensor + 3DP Aftermarket StepperDampers on XYZ
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Mon-14-Mar

Some Printr Noob wrote:- Belt End still colliding with the fan area.

Try this one. I have moved the end support back 15mm. Hopefully this is enough to clear the fan.
XBeltEndGT2RevC.STL
(81.63 KiB) Downloaded 18 times
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby Jon Lawrence » 2014-Mar-Mon-14-Mar

jwiede wrote:Jon, is it "normal" for the back edge of the bed carriage closest to the motor (carriage is the one that gets rotated 180deg so the "open tabs" are at the front of the printer post-mod) to rub against the drive shaft of the motor, at least in a 2014 Simple? If so, what's the recommended fix?

Would love to be able to help you here, but I am not the best authority on the 2014 version. It looks like your motor shaft is longer than the ones on earlier versions. The only way I can see to fix is to trim out the wood, or install some washers to move the motor back. The washers may cause clearance problems on the other end of the motor though so keep an eye out.
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Re: Jon Lawerence's X & Y GT2 belt mod

Postby jwiede » 2014-Mar-Mon-18-Mar

Jon Lawrence wrote:
jwiede wrote:Jon, is it "normal" for the back edge of the bed carriage closest to the motor (carriage is the one that gets rotated 180deg so the "open tabs" are at the front of the printer post-mod) to rub against the drive shaft of the motor, at least in a 2014 Simple? If so, what's the recommended fix?

Would love to be able to help you here, but I am not the best authority on the 2014 version. It looks like your motor shaft is longer than the ones on earlier versions. The only way I can see to fix is to trim out the wood, or install some washers to move the motor back. The washers may cause clearance problems on the other end of the motor though so keep an eye out.


I was considering doing your original X-axis mod instead (where you replace the bed carriage entirely with two printed end-pieces -- thing:257841). Was there a specific reason why you chose to instead switch to reusing the bed carriage versus replacing it with the printed end pieces? Anything I should be aware of w.r.t. the printed end pieces approach to X-axis belt mod? Thanks!
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John W.
Printrbot Simple (2014) + Alum. bed, born Feb. 2014 + XL/Tower Upgrade w/ XL Alum bed
+ Jon Lawrence's X & Y GT2 belt mods (things: 194586 & 194686)
+ XB360-supply-powered 6"x4" MakerFarm bed heater, with relay between it and Printrboard
+ Jon Lawrence's 300mm no-sag Y mod (thing: 242185)
+ Bed auto-leveling via PB sensor + 3DP Aftermarket StepperDampers on XYZ
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